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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Unsafe Users (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/26/2007 1:54:33 PM EDT
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How do you deal with unsafe users? I had a Glock 19 on the table yesterday, and a friend busted in and sat down quickly. He saw the Glock on the table and said "HEY! What's this? A gun?" in a really obnoxious voice. He waved the gun around pointing every direction imaginable and then aimed at the door and pretended to shoot three rounds by going "pew pew pew" and mimicking recoil. About this time I'm feeling sick. In five seconds he proved wrong what I've been trying to explain to people for weeks. I've always said that firearms are a safe and fun sport/hobby when handled responsibly. I've also defended that gun owners tend to be of that responsible class of person. Here, one of my own friends showed a complete disregard for all of the shooting safety rules. He was aiming unsafely, his finger was on the trigger, etc. He didn't even check to see if it was unloaded!!! When I told him that, he said "Well, I come in here and see a gun on the table. It was a pretty safe assumption that it wasn't going to be loaded." He said that last sentence with thick sarcasm-ish accenting to make it sound like there was no chance in hell that it could have been loaded and I was a moron for even bringing it up. SAFE...ASSUMPTION?!?! I know that he knows the safety rules, or at least he did two weeks ago when I took him shooting for the first time. Could he really have that little disregard for proper firearms handling, or were the rules so superficial in his reality that he felt they weren't important enough to remember? Either way, the rules are just common sense written down in list form. I'm having a hard time expressing what I feel about the situation. I'm not sure if it is anger, disappointment, frustration, or what. All I know is that for some reason I feel as though the very core of my character was violated in that instant. Never would I have imagined that ANYone could do something so unsafe and stupid. Have you ever had this sort of thing happen to you before? How on earth can you approach somebody like this and make them understand why what they did was so stupid and wrong? It's not like this guy is four years old. He's 20. I don't want to come off like I'm just a hard-ass or anything, but he needs to understand what happened. --- Clarifying Update for New Readers (From Pg. 2) --- I was about to go shooting and wasn't expecting him to show up like that (or barge in). I also wasn't prepared for him to immediately go for the Glock 19 and pick it up. I was surprised by the whole situation and didn't really "snap" into what was happening until he already had ahold of it. It wasn't even five seconds between when he opened the door and he was playing with it. Looks like the answer is to be a hard ass about it. I appreciate the feedback, and I also appreciate the comments (even the unhelpfully rude ones). Time to have a talk... |
| Stop leaving guns laying around or stop associating with morons. Don't let him touch it again. Pretty easy. I've asked people to leave for violating safety laws on my range. I almost kicked an AK out of my FIL's hands for sweeping my feet once (for the fiftieth time). I have huge respect for the guy and I love him to death, but you can only ask someone to stop muzzle sweeping you so many times. Nice didn't work. Some people just don't get it until they hurt themselves or someone else. I only shoot with predictable people now. |
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The next time he's around and your gun is out, before he picks it up, just tell him not to touch it. Let him know his jackass antics occurred at the expense of what little confidence you may have had in his level of responsibility. Treat him like the child he's shown himself to be. The other night my friend picked up a pistol I had sitting out next to me. Immediately I told him "It's loaded" [which it was]. He dropped the magazine, and immediately I added, "There's a round in the chamber, too". After he fiddled with it [unloaded] for a minute, he tried to put the chambered round back into the [full] magazine, and couldn't figure out why it wouldnt go in.  Even that was enough to irk me. |
| I think the real problem here is that he played with it for 5 seconds before you interveened. I have had friends try to do that also but I quickly stopped them and said "NEVER touch my weapons without asking permission first". They may get defensive and embarrassed, but they will get over it. Now they know better. |
Or at least that's how it would have gone down at our house. Get better friends, or better yet, carry that gun on body. |
Sums it up real well. I have one.... I was being shipped to Germany. I piled all my guns up in a corner of the bedroom by themselves. Two movers come in and I show them the pile of guns and tell them "These guns don't get packed, leave them alone." Seeing the guns, one of the movers, pointing at a Ruger double action revolver, asks "Can I see that one?" I say "sure". The guy asks "Is it loaded?" I say "No". The guy picks up the gun points it right at the lead mover's chest, about 3' away, and "CLACK!, CLACK!, CLACK!" dry fires it right at the guy. The lead guy, who looked like he was of Mexican decent, turned white - then too mad to even speak for a minute. You can imagine the look on my face. The lead starts apologizing profusely to me, and the dumb son of a bitch that did it is looking at us like "Is there something wrong?" That was greatest act of idiocy I can ever recall witnessing. Still I learned a valuable lesson - never assume somebody has even the slightest shred of common sense. Really important to remember if you are accustomed to being around smart and gun savy people. |
Yikes! That makes me cringe just thinking about it. |
Not very wise either. I can not recall the actor’s name, or the name of the show he played on, this was the late 70’s to early 80’s. This actor between shooting scenes, takes a pistol loaded with blanks that was being used in the filming, places it to his temple and pulls the trigger. The percussion from the blank killed him. Anyone remember the show or the actors name? |
Cover Up, Jon-Erik Hexum was the actor en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Television_shows |
I just Googled it! Thanks.  www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/1744/NYTimes.html |
I vaguely remember that show, I think I saw it once in college before going out to the bars. I think it was on Friday night. I thought the guy was killed by a clay or hard paper plug in the end of the blank, but that was quite awhile ago 
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His name was John Eric Hexum. Dennis Jenkins
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+1 and a resounding AMEN! Hey Particle - why DID you have your gun laying around, why did you let your friend pick it up and act like an idiot? You were the one responsible for this dangerous situation. You gave up control, and were simply lucky that nothing bad happened. The first one you should bitch at is the one in the mirror! |
Because, you know, it's impossible that he'd been cleaning it just recently when his friend busted in and did something stupid. Also, I have guns just "laying around", if you count sitting on my bedside table, sitting on my workbench, etc. I don't have kids, I have no need to keep them double locked in a safe with trigger locks all around. I use them and move them around quite frequently. Get off your high horse. He may have some fault here, but you need to calm the fuck down. He just needs to get smarter friends. |
You just have to be a hard ass and put them in their place. Like one of the guyz said, I was raised not to touch other peoples possessions without asking...so that guy has more than one problem going. I won't condemn you for your friend, it sounds like he may just need to grow up. So, you need to be his old man and lay the law down and let him know how stupid he was and how he has no right to endanger other peoples lives. Stupidity is one of the reasons for a manslaughter law....a person can go to jail forever for being childish and stupid. If he doesn't want to listen, rebels and won't leave, hey then you've got to WHIP HIS ASS. This is too important for a capricious,arrogant attitude. Everytime someone is stupid with a gun it affects all gun owners. I would do this for my friends. First time I go to the range with anyone, I let them know if they are unsafe I'm going to tell them and that's it.....it's called being mature and having balls. Gun issues are not the issues to try to "get along with people" about. My mama taught me to get along with people, my Father taught me when to get along with people and what to do when it was wrong to "get along". It would be wrong to try to "get along" with your friends behaviour. You can help him, but only by being uncomfortable and gutting up to tell him how the cow chews the cabbage. It will (guarandamntee) it will bet easier the more you do this and, if the guys is worth anything, will respect you. No respect, no friend...get his ass out. |
I "play" with firearms all the time. Terminology doesnt matter it's what the fuck you are doing with the weapon. If he didnt leave a fucking pistol out for someone to pick up there wouldnt have been a problem. My guns are my "toys" and I "play" with them. |
Maybe he was "playing" with it then when his friend busted in. Oh, let me add a "fucking" so you understand. Maybe he was fucking "playing" with it when his friend busted in and picked it up. How do you know he "left it out for someone to pick it up"? |
Pasrdon my french. I guess I missed the part about the guy busting in. |
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I was about to go shooting and wasn't expecting him to show up like that (or barge in). I also wasn't prepared for him to immediately go for the Glock 19 and pick it up. I was surprised by the whole situation and didn't really "snap" into what was happening until he already had ahold of it. It wasn't even five seconds between when he opened the door and he was playing with it. Looks like the answer is to be a hard ass about it. I appreciate the feedback, and I also appreciate the comments (even the unhelpfully rude ones). Time to have a talk... |
Hope I wasnt too much of a dick. |
Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. Gun safety is one of those things that is just so critical that it's worth being a hard ass about. |
Oh yeah, make sure it's got a full mag, first.
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This guy sounds like he has the mentality of a 12 year old. An immature, irresponsible 12 year old. Having said that, I'd try to use this as a teaching opportunity. As someone who didn't get into guns until I was much older, it's not hard for me to remember how clueless I used to be. When I first got interested in guns I went into a shop and asked to look at a rifle they had. Hadn't had any firearms training safety courses, etc. Hadn't shot a gun since I was kid. In fact had just learned there was a range near my house, was thinking about getting a rifle and joining and was curious about what was available, how expensive they were, etc. In other words I was a clueless newby. The women behind the counter handed me a rifle I asked to look at and walked down toward the other end of the counter with her back towards me to help another customer. I picked up rifle, shouldered it and looked down at the site. Although I didn't point the rifle directly at her head, it was certainly pointed in that general direction. Her young son (about 12) happened to be at the store and promptly yelled out to his Mom something to the effect of "I thought you were never supposed to poing a gun at someone, even if it's no loaded". His Mom glared at him, but he was absolutely right. I promptly put the gun down, appologized and slinked out of the store feeling like I was about 2' tall. But I also learned a valuable lesson. And whenever I see someone else handling a gun unsafely, I remember that a few years ago that was me - and that for many people ignorance is a natural condition that can only be cured with help from someone more knowledgeable - even if that turns out to be a 12 year old boy.:) |
Too true. We were at the gunshow last winter (maybe the one before that?) here in Virginia when - you guessed it - a gun went off. Dumb-ass #1, the dealer, left a round in the chamber of a CETME or HK91 clone. Dumb-ass #2, gun-show-gomer, picks it up and the first thing idiot does is pull the trigger. Round hit a steel beam in the building's cieling (fact that it happened to be pointed upwards was complete accident - guy had no idea where it was pointed). I used to work at an indoor range. Most gun owners THINK they are safe & know what they are doing. Most of them DON'T know what they are doing and many are quite unsafe - though they don't think so and the get really pissed off when you tell them they are not handling the gun in a safe manner. 
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I was taught from day one to ask before touching anything that belonged to someone else. Obviously the lack of safe handling would make me want to kick him in the balls, but the complete lack of manners would warrant a swift kick in groin. People need to lighten up on the "guns lying around" crap. I have them laying around a lot of times. If I'm about to clean one, finished cleaning one, or about to go shooting, etc. I don't leave them laying around where my kids can get them, but if they're not home it's not uncommon to walk into my kitchen and find an AR and maybe a shotgun on the kitchen table. The thing is I'm always in the same room with them so it's not like someone can just blindly come in and go "Lookee what I found!!!"
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Wasn't Bruce Lee shot and killed on set? Particle, You took this friend shooting, spent time to teach some basics. Good on you. You are Still Always responsible. I have been burned a new ass for far far less, and appreciated it. |
His son - Brandon Lee - supposedly by a blank filled gun as well.
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Sir what you "stated" can NOT be improved upon. I like the way you think. Nuff siad. WarDawg |
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FWIW, I'd have cracked him along-side the head (after I had control of the gun), and ordered him to leave - in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. I'd have ALSO told him not to come back until he'd learned some fuckin' respect - not only for the dangers of unsafe gun handling - but, also for YOU! That was so DIS-RESPECTFUL as to be unbelievable! Firearm handling is NOT child's play - and ANYONE who would behave like that has NO BUSINESS picking up (much less SHOOTING), a gun. Further, the people who've suggested it was your fault can ___________!!! You were in your own home and can leave your weapons laying wherever/however you damn well please! And, if it WASN'T loaded - SHAME ON YOU!!! (only 1/2 joking!) In MY house, every gun is loaded - all the time. (Not just philosophically) An unloaded gun is just an expensive club - good for nothing but bashing someone over the head. I can't stress enough how enraging such behavior is to me. What an asshole. I honestly think he's far too immature to be having anything to do with guns. Allow him back at your own risk. Just my $.02. |
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There was another actor who died in the 80's from a blank. He was on a show about going back in time with a kid tagging along. At the end of every episode they would fall out of the sky to get where they were going...anyone remember? To the OP: I don't have any friends that can just bust into my house without knocking, anyone who just came right in would get knocked around for that. +1 on being a hard ass....it may save a life one day. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Unsafe Users (Page 1 of 2)
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