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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 5/21/2002 2:40:37 PM EST


If you had the choice, which would you choose ?

I'm saving up and have about $1500 right now.
Can anyone tell me the pros and cons about these two, as well as cost for them?
I won't be getting full auto, so it will be semi.

REALERIC are you out there?

I got to shoot both of these out at ETH's farm.
Now I have a fever. I've got to have one of them. Want both but I have to keep this purchase from the wife.

Thanks


Link Posted: 5/21/2002 2:48:55 PM EST
If money is not much of a problem go with the MP5. Mags are around $65.00 last I remember seeing an add in SGN. The UZI will be cheaper. Both for the firearm and the mags. Mags run around $15.00 and higher. I picked up some used IMI mags. $120.00 for 10 plus two pouches. Or just save and buy both. Whats the price of both firearms? Have fun with either. Also good luck with the wife.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 2:52:38 PM EST
MP5 Pro - Way cool looks, reliable, lighter than the Uzi,
MP5 Con - $$$$$$, more complex operation



Link Posted: 5/21/2002 2:54:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By TOW2B:
Whats the price of both firearms?



Thats part of my question as well. I've seen the Uzi for around $1200 to $1500 but I'm not sure on the HK.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:06:49 PM EST
The MP5's are around $8000
and the UZI is around $3000

I'm not sure where you are seeing UZI's for $1200, but last time I looked they were around $3000. If you are just looking to get into the Class III game for cheap, a M11/9 can be had NIB for around a grand.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:13:08 PM EST
I saw an semi Uzi at a pawn shop in Tulsa a while back for around $1200.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:21:51 PM EST
WHOA !!! When you talk about a MP5 or an IMI SMG those are full auto. If your talking about semi only thats a whole other story. Maybe you should re-title this post. SMG- SUB MACHINE GUN

Anyways, yeah a semi UZI can be had for 1500 or so and a HK89 or HK94 (semi version of MP5) can be had for around 4000
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:22:34 PM EST
While I've never fired an UZI, let me share my MP5 experience. While an armorer at the IW shop at Camp Lejeune, there were a number of MP5N's and MP5SD's that had to go back to HK (on warranty), as the receivers had a habit of cracking. If you plan on lots of full auto, the ease of repair definitely has to be a consideration. From what I see, UZI parts are both cheaper and more plentiful.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:54:29 PM EST
having shot both a UZI and a mp5 non pdw thu whatever the standard mp5 is.

i would rather have the uzi. i dont know i just liked it better. plus the damn mp5 jammed

Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:54:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 4:32:50 PM EST by rocko]
OK, well first things first... What state do you live in and do they allow SBR's? If they do, are you willing to pay the $200 tax, send in fingerprints, wait 3-6 months, will your local CLEO even sign? If the answer to any of these is no, mentally add a 16" barrel to both of these and see how they look.

Issue #2 is the way in which would would need to build these guns. To get a semi uzi in that configuration, all you would need to do is buy a pre-ban and get the barrel chopped. You are going from a "rifle" to a "short barreled rifle", so no big deal.

The way you would build the MP5K-PDW is buy an SP89 pistol and add the folding stock to make it the SBR. Problem is that I believe the BATF considers going from a pistol to a short barrled rifle like that manufacturing a new firearm, and thus under the constraints of the 94 crime bill. This means no folding stock, flash hider, etc. even though your donor gun is a pre-ban. Now... I'm sure plenty of people have done this, but the legality is in question...

As far as cost, a pre-ban semi UZI is probably 1-1.5K depending if you get a model A or B, the model A's being more expensive. IMHO, if you're gonna spend the $1.5K for a model A and pay $200 tax stamp SBR it + gunsmith fees to cut/recrown or replace the barrel, you may as well drop the $3K on a NIB vector UZI (also +$200 tax stamp, of course) - they are probably the best value in the class 3 world right now (where else can you can a NIB machine gun with a factory warranty these days)?

An SP89 will go for 3-3.5K, plus the folding stock (not sure prolly like $100-$200) + K grip +$200 tax stamp. Good thing is that since the barrel is already of the proper length, you don't have to worry about replacing that. Still, you are likely in it for $4K before you even start thinking about mags.

Good thing about the HK is that you could always buy the auto sear later on if you do want to go full auto. Last time I looked they were going for about $4k (for a $5 piece of metal - it really is disgusting). If you get one registered in multiple calibers, you can then put it in any of the HK 9X series and basically have a "3 in 1" machine gun (G3, HK33, and any of the various MP5 clones). I believe there are transferable full auto bolts for the UZI as well, but I don't know what they go for or how reliable they are.

You could also opt for the post ban clones - vector sells postban UZI's with the folding stock welded open for like $600-700, I think. And Special Weapons makes a PDW clone which I think are wholesaling $1K (think FAC has them) with their new stamped receiver and a bit more for their original cast receiver version.

Either way, not the most effective use of your $$$. A semi subgun is more of a curiosity than anything else, IMHO. Unless you already have a pretty well rounded collection, I would recommend getting some other guns first.

Rocko
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 3:58:10 PM EST


ilikelegs, you shot both, correct?
Semi: Uzi: $1,200 to $1,500.
MP5: $3,500 to $5,000.
FA: Uzi: $3,000.
MP5: $8,000 to $9,000.

Semi Uzi and MP5 (or MP5K) is cool to look at, but not as fun to shoot semi. Kinda like a very big pistol. And full-auto? Well, you know what it is like.
IMO, be patient and save a little more and buy FA Uzi. Then you can shoot both semi and FA.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 4:01:14 PM EST

I recommend the Colt 635. If you insist on choosing between the other two I recommend the MP5. I prefer the MP5 in almost all areas except the ROF.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 4:29:06 PM EST
`Let's be clear. The gun in the picture is an MP5K-PDW, incorrectly described as an MP5-PDW. People here are talking about MP5s. The PDW is a totally different gun despite the similarities.

An Uzi, at the end of the day, is a piece of s. and a NIB Vector can be bought for $2800. On the other hand, an MP5K-PDW full auto conversion will be at least $8,500, if not more.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 4:59:48 PM EST
mojo, considering the Uzi we shot at ETH's, how much
would I be spending for the exact setup.



Thanks everyone for your replies. Yes I do have my
terms wrong on some of the info I posted, that because
I don't know to much about them.
rocko, thanks for all the extra info.

While I'm in love with the MP5, that's way out of my price range,
so I guess that is out.[>(]

I'm an artist so I don't have the income to spend up to
10,000 for all that I would want for the MP5.

So Uzi it is.
I have the cash to get a semi but will save some more and go
the full auto route and do the registration thing, what a hassle.
But worth it.

Francisco_dAnconia, I've thought about going that route but will
convert one of my Colts into a 9mm, semi. I am recoil sensitive
so having a full auto rifle, well I just couldn't utilize it properly
with out a lot more training.

Thanks again everyone.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 5:07:27 PM EST
The HK94 which is the semi-auto version of the MP-5 has been advertised around lately for around $3000.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 5:14:38 PM EST
Having shot both MP5 and Uzi both in full auto, I'll pick the MP5. If you like AK47, I think you'll like the Uzi. If you like the AR15 then you'll mostly likely pick the MP5. MP5 is smooth, you can easily keep your aim and continue firing. Uzi uses older technolgy and has tendency for muzzle climb. I was able to shoot tighter group with MP5 than with the Uzi. I also felt MP5 was more ergonimically correct than the uzi. Cool factor is better with MP5 also. But we are talking huge price difference here. If money was no objective then get the MP5 because you will not be disappointed. If you are going to use it for shooting paper targets, you might be better off buying the uzi and savings from not buying the MP5 can be applied to purchase of ammos.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 5:43:40 PM EST

I won't be getting full auto, so it will be semi.


well, incase you dont realize, the UZI semi will have a 16 inch barrel (not like the pictured one) and will cost about 1200.

now the "mp5 pdw" presents a real challange. that is a full auto weapon. to get a semi one, you will have to locate and but an HK 94. that will cost you $4500. now it would have to be rebulit into an PDW and registered as a Short barreled rifle. the regiration will cost 200, i ahve no idea what pdw gear would cost, but it would be a great cost. i woulndt mess with that "PDW" idea.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 5:52:32 PM EST
The Navy Seals used to use Uzi's, but now they use MP5's. Join the now!

PS, I find the MP5 much more ergonomically friendly.
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 6:15:59 PM EST
MP5-PDW clone in semi auto form can be built from a SP-89, register it as a SBR and attach the stock.

Uzi SBR in semi auto is a simple making, just buy a short barrel for the semi and go, save the original 16" IMI barrel. This is what I did, and use an AWC MK9 can also.

Link Posted: 5/21/2002 8:14:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Francisco_dAnconia, I've thought about going that route but will
convert one of my Colts into a 9mm, semi. I am recoil sensitive
so having a full auto rifle, well I just couldn't utilize it properly
with out a lot more training.

Thanks again everyone.

I think you misunderstood, the Colt 635 is a 9mm SMG and not a 556 Commando assault rifle. I don't know how much one costs though.

Are you shortchanging yourself on the training and recoil sensitivity statement? Principles do not change, just use the same or a slightly more aggresive stance than you would if you were rapid-firing the same weapon on semi and keep your bursts short (1-3rds, usually) for maximum effect. This is not to say you shouldn't take any training. Take the defensive rifle, urban rifle, assault rifle, etc. courses you can get your hands on and try to get to Frontsight for their free subgun course.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 4:00:58 AM EST
ilikelegs: Nice airsoft gun pictures.

Kharn
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 4:20:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kharn:
ilikelegs: Nice airsoft gun pictures.

Kharn



Isn't an airsoft rifle a real machine gun?
I thought this was just a brand of Uzi and HK. LOL

They were the quickest images I found with them side by side.
Looks like you were the only one to pull up the properties on the images here.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:11:42 AM EST
"An Uzi, at the end of the day, is a piece of s."

Phil, at the end of the day, you are a minority of one. While some like the Uzi better than others and some don't, it assuredly is not a piece of s. in any way, shape or form.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 6:51:34 AM EST
Ilikelegs: I only pulled up the properties because I recognized the pictures from when I had been shopping for airsofts. No gun nut would take pictures of his MG on a blue background, most do it on a white sheet, or on top of a big pile-o-porn.

Kharn
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 10:13:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/22/2002 10:20:23 AM EST by shaggy]

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
"An Uzi, at the end of the day, is a piece of s."

Phil, at the end of the day, you are a minority of one. While some like the Uzi better than others and some don't, it assuredly is not a piece of s. in any way, shape or form.



I have to second this.

The Uzi is one of the greatest combat designs of the 20th century. Despite the fact that its a scond generation subgun while the MP5 is a third gen. design, the Uzi still takes the cake over the MP5 in several important respects. (1) Less moving parts to break, and a far less complicated design. Get some sand or mud in that MP5 and the best thing you can do with it is to hit the enemy over the head with it. The Uzi is far more forgiving with sand, mud, muck, and grime in the gun. Its also a far more sturdy weapon. (2) Anyone who says an Uzi has a tendency to rise, just hasn't shot one...or is simply inexperienced with one. Its a heavy, sturdy gun. It stays where you aim it. You can dump a full mag right into the A-zone in a single burst with ease. (3) caliber convertability - tried to change that MP5 or 94 into .45 lately? Didn't think so. You can do it in a few minutes on an Uzi though. (4) It uses the simple hand-meets-hand principle to reload. Ever try to find the magwell on an MP5 or 94 in the dark, under stress? Its not very intuitive. With the Uzi, its a snap - hand-meets-hand- even in complete dark, your left hand (with a fresh mag) will always find your right hand (on the grip/mag well). (5) And yes, I know the SEALS and Secret Service, and every other specop group uses the MP5 these days (they all used to use Uzis). Of course, they don't pay for their weapons - you do - through your taxes. If someone was buying all my toys on the public's dime, I'd get every neat, new-fangled whiz-bang gun that hit the market. Of course, if I don't like it, I could always ask for more appropriations next year to get something else.

Bottom line? A 94 (semi) will run about 3-4 times the price of a semi-Uzi. Even if you still think the 94 is better, you have to ask yourself, is it really 3 times better?


(Edited to add: And FWIW, I have both an UZI, and an HK51 - basicly an MP5 in .308)
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 1:02:36 PM EST
Do I think an HK is worth 3 times as much as an UZI? Yes. That being said, I have to admit that I don't own an UZI, so I really can't make a comparison. Mine has been fun to shoot, easy to maintain, and has functioned flawlessly. Plus, it is nice to look at.

I think it comes down to personal preference. I don't think you could go wrong with either gun.
Link Posted: 5/22/2002 5:24:39 PM EST
Why not just get both?
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 4:48:59 AM EST


You means like this?



Link Posted: 5/23/2002 5:08:56 AM EST
In my opinion the HK 94 is better than a semi Uzi by a long shot. Thats part of the reason it costs twice as much. There is a US made HK94 clone called the SW5. They will function as well as an HK94 as long as they are built correctly, all parts interchange between the SW5 and HK94. SW5s can be bought for around $1000 new from FAC.

http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/images/SW5.jpg

I would say you will be happy with an IMI Uzi or HK94. They are both good subguns.



Link Posted: 5/23/2002 5:31:42 AM EST


IMO, HK subgun series cost 2 or 3 times the Uzi, because their popularity, and the using by SF or counter-terrorist groups. Sure, HK subgun series is maybe better than Uzi (depending on whom you talk to) , but definitely not 2 or 3 times better.
SW? Never deal with them, but I hear a lot that their customer service blows, and some of their parts are not mil-spec. That is enough for me to stay away from.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 6:38:22 PM EST
I have all the above - Uzi, Mp5, MP5K-PDW and also a mini-uzi as well. The MP5 is clearly the nicest of the bunch. I can keep sight picture on with a cheek on the stock for a whole Beta C mag (sorry guys, law enforcement only on the mag). The PDW is pretty small and nice to shoot, it's a good bit faster than an MP5. BOth Uzis work well, the mini really kicks through the rounds. However, they are at an ergonomic disadvantage to the MP5 and not nearly as easy to hold on target.

There is a reason every PD and military subgun is an Mp5. (Other than the silly DEA and their 635s)

Also, FYI to an earlier post in thread, MP5K-PDW's are converted SP89s, not HK94s.
Link Posted: 5/23/2002 6:45:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Also, FYI to an earlier post in thread, MP5K-PDW's are converted SP89s, not HK94s.



i stand corrected. makes sense too, i cant imagin why i didnt think of it. i guess i wasnt sure if it was legal to turn a pistol into a rifle (since you cant do the vise versa)
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