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Posted: 7/29/2005 3:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 7:33:26 PM EDT by DoorKicker]
So after 6 weeks of waiting, and chaging the configuration due to parts availability, my rifle arrives at the dealer today.

Unfortunately, the dealer didn't have any money to clear the COD, so they sent it back until Monday.

I have never paid so much for a gun that I have heard so much negative things about, and felt it a gamble to buy. I hope it is all worth it in the end.

Report to follow.


and my little buddy and his little MP5
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 3:04:12 PM EDT
If you dont like it I'll buy the BW from you for oh...say 10 bucks?

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
So after 6 weeks of waiting, and chaging the configuration due to parts availability, my rifle arrives at the dealer today.

Unfortunately, the dealer didn't have any money to clear the COD, so they sent it back until Monday.

I have never paid so much for a gun that I have heard so much negative things about, and felt it a gamble to buy. I hope it is all worth it in the end.

Report to follow.

Link Posted: 7/29/2005 5:08:52 PM EDT
Despite the "colorful" past of the people behind
Bobcat Weapons ,I've heard of quite a few people
liking there BW5s .
Enough to make me consider it,but only if I had the
weapon in my hands first.

I've heard 2 things about these guns.

1.Only use the curved high cap mags.
Apparently ,many have had jamming problems with
the strait mags,while the curved ones ran
perfectly.

2.If the weapon comes with a silver colored ejector ,
try to replace it with their gold colored one as soon as
possible if you experience FTEs after a 200 round break in.

I have absolutely NO idea what that second part about
the colored ejectors means ,I haven't seen one.
I thought they were black ?

Anyway ,I thought I would leave you some positive info.
Many people have given positive reports for these.

Perhaps the original proprietor is attempting to clear his name ,
by renaming his company and learning from past mistakes.
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 5:23:15 PM EDT
I'm sure you will like it. I have messed around with one here in town, never got to shoot it but still, the one I played with, was very nice quality.

There were reports of poor QC issues recently, but I belive they have that all figured out now.

By the way, my offer still stands if your interested
Link Posted: 7/29/2005 7:51:37 PM EDT
The best I can do is offer a first-hand report. My BW5FS came in this week, and has been to the range once. I experienced to FTE's using the one curved mag that came with the weapon, and Winchester white box ammo. My bolt has a silver-colored ejector (if I'm accurately identifying the actual ejector).

Overall, this is probably what a $1400 HK clone should be. By that, I mean the finish is a little thick in places, but appears to be durable enough. The plastic SF lower has some rough casting edges, as does the stock and forearm. The plastic parts seem a little on the light-weight side, but then again, I don't own a real HK to compare it to. The weapon is accurate out to 45 feet (the max at my range) and fun to shoot, with the exception of the annoying extraction problem, which seemed to occur randomly with no pattern. The paddle release seems to flop around a bit when the mag is in place, but then again, this may be totally normal.

It is my understanding that Bobcat Weapons purchases the receivers and the license to build complete guns from Specia Weapons. All of the other parts are from Top Notch. I've read lots of differing opinions on this subject, but the BW5 comes with a lifetime warranty and so far, the company seems very interested in maintaining a good customer relationship.

If I come up with about $3500 and a primo example HK94 were to present itself, I'd still probably buy it and use the BW as a shooter. Like I said, for $2k less money, and to be shooting it all the time, it's a hell of a gun, and it's readily available, unlike the REAL DEAL.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 4:35:14 PM EDT
OK, I have it in hand. If this thing shoots as good as it looks, then I should have no problems. In other words, it looks great.

When held next to my HK 93 (The real deal) it actually looks better. The finish is not as shiney, the welds are almost invisible, and the stocks interchange.

The only negative thing I can say right now, is the hard stock that came with it is a light plastic POS, nothing like the real HK hard stock on my 93.

Now to get it to the range. That will come tomorrow. I only wish I wouldn't have bought ten HK stick mags for this thing after hearing that they may not work well.

That is TBD though.

For now I will just sit on my thrown at home and hold it till I get to shoot it.
If you know what I mean.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:27:08 AM EDT
The stick mags never worked well in the real deal either hints why they dont make them anymore and they are still so cheap.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:42:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Now to get it to the range. That will come tomorrow. I only wish I wouldn't have bought ten HK stick mags for this thing after hearing that they may not work well.





Try 'em out. Some might work just fine, as long as you avoid hollowpoints.


And where are the pics?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:46:28 AM EDT
PICS,PICS,PICS,PICS!!!!!

ASO544
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:15:33 PM EDT
Its not an EJECTOR its an EXTRACTOR SPRING.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:46:17 PM EDT
OK, so I added the pics and promissed a range report.

I only shot 50 rnds thru it and only used the factory BW mag that came with it.
I had only intended to show it to a friend so didn't have the extra mags with me, but we ended up burning up a box of ammo.

This stuff was extra hot "Sub Gun" ammo and it worked perfect, no jams at all. I don't remember the grain but it is not to be used in hand guns because it will supposedly cause too much stress and damage.???

Anyway I will clean it and run it thru a better test maybe tomorrow.

I did notice the gold spring everybody talks about, so maybe that is why it ran good?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:12:19 AM EDT
Nice rifle....where did you get the collapsible stock? Did it come from BW?

Thanks,

ARCAPTN
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:27:12 AM EDT
I have heard of a lot of problems with the extractor springs. You can get new ones of these pretty easy from what I remember plus special weapons makes some gold ones now too that are suppose to be good. I have not had any problem with white box ammo. I would try it again after you shoot some more rounds through it. If it doesnt cycle it then I would give the SD locking peice (I think that is what it is called that I read about in the bobcat article) a try because it will let you cycle lighter ammo. You shouldnt need to do this but who knows.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:33:48 AM EDT
Interesting.

If I get my new job... an MP-5 clone is on my list
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:39:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARCAPTN:
Nice rifle....where did you get the collapsible stock? Did it come from BW?

Thanks,

ARCAPTN



I actually bought it for my HK93 (pictured with the BW5) at a gun show a few years back. It is supposedly HK but have no way of knowing.

BW is out of those stocks for now, that is why I changed configurations on my order and got a hard stock, I didn't want to wait any longer than the six weeks I had already waited.

I have had zero problems thus far and already have the Gold spring installed from the factory.....
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:10:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:

Originally Posted By ARCAPTN:
Nice rifle....where did you get the collapsible stock? Did it come from BW?

Thanks,

ARCAPTN



I actually bought it for my HK93 (pictured with the BW5) at a gun show a few years back. It is supposedly HK but have no way of knowing.

BW is out of those stocks for now, that is why I changed configurations on my order and got a hard stock, I didn't want to wait any longer than the six weeks I had already waited.

I have had zero problems thus far and already have the Gold spring installed from the factory.....



It's an MP5/10 or 40 stock, from the looks of it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:07:30 AM EDT
"It's an MP5/10 or 40 stock, from the looks of it."


What is the difference between stocks? It fits both weapons just fine.....

And another thing, what is that circular clip on the side of the magazine well?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:14:20 AM EDT
10 and 40 stocks have that bit cut out of the left side rail to clear the bolt hold open.

The device on the mag-well is for a three point sling, but if I remember correctly from a review by SteyrAUG, it is made from a stamping, and is useless for what its intended for.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:44:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 9:29:14 AM EDT
The stick mags feed FMJ absolutely fine in real HK MP5s, they switched to curved for more reliable feeding of hollow points.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CaptainKevinDarling:

It's an MP5/10 or 40 stock, from the looks of it.



I think they refer to these A3 stocks as 'Universal Stocks'. They will work just fine on 9mm, 40 or 10mm guns.

Also, as far as I know, the Universal Stocks are all German H&K made.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:54:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Las_Vegas_HK:

Originally Posted By CaptainKevinDarling:

It's an MP5/10 or 40 stock, from the looks of it.



I think they refer to these A3 stocks as 'Universal Stocks'. They will work just fine on 9mm, 40 or 10mm guns.

Also, as far as I know, the Universal Stocks are all German H&K made.



Cool, the guy at the gun show was actually telling the truth
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:18:21 PM EDT
Second report:

Still running great on the BW mag, I used five of the HK stick mags and it only liked three of them.

I have about 500 rnds thru it now and I need to clean it. I did get 20 HP rounds thru it in the curved mag and the second to last one hung up.????

Honestly I will mainly be shooting ball ammo, I just wanted to see what it would do on some left over HP I had.

I really want to go Class II with this thing. I can't do a SBR with detachable can because my state dosen't allow it. I was thinking an SD version with tubular HG and the integrated can. Can that be done? If so who can do it for me?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:25:02 PM EDT
If you want a cheap imitation of an SD, Choate makes a slip-on hand guard that looks like the SD and covers a 16" barrel. If you want the real deal, I'd look at AAC. They may be able to fabricate an SD-looking attachment for you.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 7:03:01 PM EDT
SWEET !

If it were me ,I'd pretty much leave it as is,with
the exception of perhaps a trigger job and a
Claw mount with an Aimpoint ,or some type of
high speed optics mount.

Very nice weapon ,I wish I had the $$$$ right
now.
I've spent all mine on my PTR-91 project .

I like how it comes WITH a paddle style
release already installed.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:01:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mkellett:
If you want a cheap imitation of an SD, Choate makes a slip-on hand guard that looks like the SD and covers a 16" barrel. If you want the real deal, I'd look at AAC. They may be able to fabricate an SD-looking attachment for you.



where can the choate hg be located? I did the google search and couldn't find it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 8:27:21 PM EDT
Does your wife know you leaned that 93 up on that nice paint job?

"Oh honey ...that was little buddy who skuffed the wall."



Nice rifle.

JR
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:00:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By racecar:
Does your wife know you leaned that 93 up on that nice paint job?

"Oh honey ...that was little buddy who skuffed the wall."



Nice rifle.

JR



She was more concerned that my Son was poseing with his MP5 and in the same pic as my 93 than she was about the wall. The picture was taken in my home office, "Daddy's room", as my Son calls it so I can do pretty much anything I want in there.
Funny thing is, my Son calls the laundry room "Mommy's room"
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:01:30 PM EDT
DoorKicker,
I noticed your BW-5FS has the metal trigger housing.
Is Bobcat out of the plastic trigger housings as well, or did you order it that way?
Thanks,
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 6:26:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Txnrcr:
DoorKicker,
I noticed your BW-5FS has the metal trigger housing.
Is Bobcat out of the plastic trigger housings as well, or did you order it that way?
Thanks,



I ordered it that way. My HK 93 has a metal one and it works for me, so I went with it on the BW5 as well.

Personally I don't see why folks want the plastic so much? But I am sure there is some reason.

Shot again this weekend, 300 rnds and this thing needs more curved mags. I have three or four of my stick mags out of ten that I bought that are OK, but so far the curved mag it came with is best.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 1:49:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 1:52:28 PM EDT by Villafuego]
I love my BW5......the only problems I ever had were various feed issues with the early "SD" marked stick mags, and an occasional failure to eject on last round.

I put an AAC "Imitator" on mine, and a clipped/pinned Ambi burst lower (with an FBI S-F pack) on it. Polished up the ejector real nice, and never had another issue with it. I use Winchester 124 gn NATO white box.....total reliability!!!

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:23:45 PM EDT
That is sweet. What exactly is clipped / pinned mean in reference to the lower?

I would like mine better is the FS looked like yours.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 9:13:00 PM EDT
Hey VF nice rifle.......I have one of the Imitators...how did you perm attach it to your rifle?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 10:08:51 PM EDT
Here's another question.... How is the accuracy of those nice BW5's that everyone has ?

Are they HK94 accurate with the 16" barrels ?

Are they MP5 accurate with the 8.85" barrels ?

Need some Bobcat BW5 range reports fellas... come on, do some homework and post it... take one for the team

Seriously, it would be nice to know how these clones hold up to German accuracy....

Let us know guys.

-bones
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:11:42 AM EDT
Bones,

I can't tell the difference between my SW5 and my MP5 in accuracy. Though I only shoot from 7-50yds in the off hand and closing with the target. I've never put either of them on sand bags to really test them out. In general, I can put 8 out of 10 rounds in a paper plate at 50 yds fairly easy. Both are regular length barrels...8" and some change I believe.

Both function great, though I have a few upgrades in my SW5, so it isn't really stock I would say. I've been extremely happy with my SW5 overall. It's a late model according to the SN #; I believe right before BW started producing the "BW5." The finish is excellent and I can interchange German HK parts with no problem. I'm happy...as I only paid $1100 for it w/upgrades a year ago.

Hope this helps....and fellas, if you are on the fence or having a tough time deciding on buying...do it. You won't be disappointed.

HKCAPTN
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:56:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:59:35 AM EDT by Darkest2000]

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
Personally I don't see why folks want the plastic so much? But I am sure there is some reason.




A few reasons, there may be more:

Lightweight

More comfortable if you're left handed (the thumb rest on a typical SEF grip feels awkard for a left handed shooter)

It just looks so damn cool

Ambi selector (the BW/Top notch unit did not have this feature however, they used the SEF selector on their copy)

Last but not least, the plastic lower covers up the "gap" behind the mag well better than metal lowers do, less chance of dirt getting in there.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:19:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARCAPTN:
Hey VF nice rifle.......I have one of the Imitators...how did you perm attach it to your rifle?

Thanks!



It was tricky due to the 3-lug twist/lock system. Once it was locked in place, drilled a small hole, blind pin in the bottom lug, and a blob oh heli-arc over the pin........
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:26:58 PM EDT
I have the same setup, and having some occassional jam-ups with Winchester white box ammo. Can you tell me a little more specifially what you did to polish the ejector? Mine has the now-famous gold extractor spring, so I don't think that's it.

It occassionally fails to eject the spent case and jams it up with a fresh round. Other times, it will eject the case and chamber a new round, but then only light strike and fails to fire the round.

Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:04:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:06:52 PM EDT by Villafuego]
"Can you tell me a little more specifially what you did to polish the ejector? Mine has the now-famous gold extractor spring, so I don't think that's it.

The Bobcat lower that came with mine (in the plastic housing) looked like it was from a G3. I took an MP5 SF Ambi SF pack (with the right 9mm hammer spring), and polished the face of the hammer (that contacts the bottom of the bolt carrier). I also polished the bearing surface on the top-rear of the ejector. Just cycle the action slowly and think "whats going on here" when you feel a rough spot!!!!!! Took care of all the ejection/brass in the receiver problems . If it's the "factory" Bobcat ejector, I'll bet the front of it is too high......and dragging on the ejector slot in the bolt-head.

Mine shoots about 2-4 inches at 50 yards with Winchester and GECO 124gr. A little tighter with 147gr.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 10:05:55 PM EDT
VF,

Where are you finding your 124gr GECO? I'd like to track some more of that down. I've had NO LUCK on finding any around.

Thanks,

HKCAPTN
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 7:38:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARCAPTN:
VF,

Where are you finding your 124gr GECO? I'd like to track some more of that down. I've had NO LUCK on finding any around.

Thanks,

HKCAPTN



I buy in where ever I can find it......local stores, online, shows......without a doubt the best smg ammo out there.......my MK-760 loves the stuff!!!!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:03:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 6:04:12 PM EDT by BlackFox]
By the way, I'm personally of the opinion that the whole issue above about straight mags and HP's is overstated. I've done mag-dump after mag-dump in my MP5 with straight mags with HPs and have yet to have a problem:



JMHO. By the way, I'm always interested to hear about the clones and their reliability. The days are gone when we can all afford H&Ks, so SW, Bobcat, ORF and others are all we have. Thanks to those of you who give objective reviews of the obtainable H&K series.....

Black Fox
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 9:06:57 PM EDT
There's no problem with the stick mags in a REAL MP5.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:15:38 PM EDT
CaptainKev,

My HK will not take the straight mags...no matter what type of ammo I feed it. I always have at least one FTFeed per mag if not more. Now, it will take the curved mags like "a bum on free booze." So does my SW....no difference.

HKCAPTN
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 10:51:36 PM EDT
I can't remember if the one you had was H&K or contract?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:28:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:
That is sweet. What exactly is clipped / pinned mean in reference to the lower?

I would like mine better is the FS looked like yours.



MP5 Subgun lowers are held to the receiver at the front (by the mag well) by a push pin, whereas semi lowers "clip" onto the receiver with a short ledge (the U-shaped metal protruding from the back of the mag well).

To make a MP5 lower housing (not the actual internal trigger group) fit a semi (SW5/HK94) a slot has to be milled into the front of housing, including the metal plate and the two "ears" for the push pin, thus called "clipping" the lower.

For cosmetic purposes only, to make your lower "subgun-authentic", a real push pin is cut into two pieces and usually epoxy glued into the two holes, one half on each side of the lower, to create the appearance of a push pin being used to hold the lower onto the receiver, thus being "pinned".

You can buy clipped and pinned lowers from various individuals off of the 'net (Strumgewehr, etc) for around $125 for an empty lower shell, to $250 for a complete semi lower, ready to fit your BW5. But be careful, I thought I found a good deal for a SEF plastic lower for $95, but when it came in, it was NOT clipped or pinned, just an unmodified contract lower. Now the seller will not respond to my emails. It'll probably cost me around $100 I'm guessing to have it clipped and pinned, IF I can find someone to do the work in this century.

But I agree, the clipped/pin plastic SEF and Burst lowers do look cool on the SW5, but there's no functional difference at all. Just don't be suprised if you get accused of Gucci-fying your clone by some hard-assed HK nut.h.gif
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:45:12 AM EDT
mkellett,

Vector Arms (www.vectorarms.com) sells the SUO trigger housings that are clipped but not pinned for around only $40. They will pop right onto a BW5 but will require some Dremel work to go on a BW89. It looks just like the all plastic SEF lowers. That might be a cheaper option then modding the one you already bought.

Kevin
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:29:07 AM EDT
Thanks Kevin. My trigger pack is the standard "FBI" plastic ambi lower that came with the BW5. Are the SUO's they have ambi or single-side? I know that my internals will not fit in a single-sided housing, correct?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:32:35 PM EDT
Oh, sorry, you're probably right about them not working with the single sided housing. I mistakenly thought that you were coming from a SEF style housing.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 2:45:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bones21:
Here's another question.... How is the accuracy of those nice BW5's that everyone has ?

Are they HK94 accurate with the 16" barrels ?

Are they MP5 accurate with the 8.85" barrels ?

Need some Bobcat BW5 range reports fellas... come on, do some homework and post it... take one for the team

Seriously, it would be nice to know how these clones hold up to German accuracy....

Let us know guys.

-bones



Hey Bones,

Well I don't have a BW5 FS, but I do have a BW89PDW (5.5" Barrel) and can honestly say I have had no problems with it so far. I do most of my shooting with this gun at pistol ranges and can shoot 4" groups at 25 yards all day free standing. I have never shot this gun from a bench though and am sure it could possibly score better if I did.

MY Bobcat eats from the curved mag that came stock, HK curved mags, HK waffle mags, and even the cheap Asian contract mags. I've shot Winchester White box 115 grains, 147grains Corbons, and Hyda-Shoks. The gun favors heavier grain rounds.

For those considering getting a Bobcat, do it. I am very satisfied with my shortie. I replaced the rear stock w/ a Brugger & Thormet Skeleton unit and mounted an Aimpoint ML2 via a B&T scope mount and ARMS ring. Other than that it's stock. My trigger housing is steel also.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:25:19 PM EDT
DoorKicker do the bw5's have a last round bolt hold open feature.
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