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Posted: 2/22/2011 2:11:03 PM EDT
| Trying to figure this out. Going with an SAS Arbiter, for my .300 WM build. I'm running a 28" barrel. So is there really a mechanical advantage of Ti? Is it worth the premium? |
| Ti has benefits regarding weight savings. On a bolt gun or low round count rifle it's beneficial. The problems arise from rapid firing schedules. Ti loses strength when it gets to around 800 degrees Farenheit so for rapid fire it's not as desirable. On a bolt gun, as far as POI/POA it's great as typically less deflection mean less shift. |
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Ti loses strength when it gets to around 800 degrees Farenheit so for rapid fire it's not as desirable. On a bolt gun, as far as POI/POA it's great as typically less deflection mean less shift. Hope I don't disillusion you, but 300 series stainless (which is what suppressors are made of) loses its strength even worse at 800 deg F. Both tensile and yield strength at 800 deg F is 62% of what it is at room temperature. Further, the yield strength of 300 series stainless is significantly less than half of that of the titanium alloys used by suppressor manufacturers. |
Already good info posted here. Just thought I'd toss out some teaser pictures for you. My experience with suppressors and POI shift is that all bets are off when you hang a weight on the end of your barrel. There is never a guaranty that you won't experience some POI shift. However, some suppressors have baffle cores and mounting solutions that specifically attempt to minimize potential POI shift. The interest in lighter weight products has been driven largely by the conclusion that heavier objects are more likely to contribute to POI shifts. Is Ti worth the extra price? It depends. There is no easy answer. Many SS products perform just fine. Mark |
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Ti loses strength when it gets to around 800 degrees Farenheit so for rapid fire it's not as desirable. On a bolt gun, as far as POI/POA it's great as typically less deflection mean less shift. Hope I don't disillusion you, but 300 series stainless (which is what suppressors are made of) loses its strength even worse at 800 deg F. Both tensile and yield strength at 800 deg F is 62% of what it is at room temperature. Further, the yield strength of 300 series stainless is significantly less than half of that of the titanium alloys used by suppressor manufacturers. So this graph is incorrect? What is incorrect about it? According to this all the steels maintain their yield strength far better than the Ti samples at high temperature. 
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So this graph is incorrect? What is incorrect about it? According to this all the steels maintain their yield strength far better than the Ti samples at high temperature. http://www.silencertests.com/docs/chart.jpg Not sure from where you obtained this graph, but I get my information from the manufacturer (President Titanium) and from ASM International reference sources. According to President Titanium, the yield of Ti 6Al4V is 63 kpsi at 800 F. Stainless 304 is 18.6 kpsi at 800 F. What this means is simply that at 800 degrees F, the titanium has a yield strength better than three times that of series 300 stainless. The curve in your graph for Ti looks more like that of 99% pure Ti (Grade 2) I feel no compelling need to argue with you. |
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Ti loses strength when it gets to around 800 degrees Farenheit so for rapid fire it's not as desirable. On a bolt gun, as far as POI/POA it's great as typically less deflection mean less shift. Hope I don't disillusion you, but 300 series stainless (which is what suppressors are made of) loses its strength even worse at 800 deg F. Both tensile and yield strength at 800 deg F is 62% of what it is at room temperature. Further, the yield strength of 300 series stainless is significantly less than half of that of the titanium alloys used by suppressor manufacturers. So this graph is incorrect? What is incorrect about it? According to this all the steels maintain their yield strength far better than the Ti samples at high temperature. http://www.silencertests.com/docs/chart.jpg Grades 1-4 can't handle as much heat as 5, 6 and 9 (which falls somewhere between 4-5 and is cold roll-able). The testing you're showing says Grade 2 in the legend(purple), a grade suppressor manufacturers don't use. The 6-4 is closer to grade 5 (light blue). Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_alloy Specifically on grade 5 Ti: Its properties are very similar to those of the 300 stainless steel series, especially 316.
Grade 5 anneals at 1350, so as long as you aren't running your 7.62 Ti can on a belt fed you should be ok (something many SS aren't warrantied for). This is of course dependent upon design and Ti grade used in production. When a good grade of Ti is used, combined with good manufacturing techniques - there is no reason it couldn't be used on a semi-auto. |
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So this graph is incorrect? What is incorrect about it? According to this all the steels maintain their yield strength far better than the Ti samples at high temperature. http://www.silencertests.com/docs/chart.jpg Not sure from where you obtained this graph, but I get my information from the manufacturer (President Titanium) and from ASM International reference sources. According to President Titanium, the yield of Ti 6Al4V is 63 kpsi at 800 F. Stainless 304 is 18.6 kpsi at 800 F. What this means is simply that at 800 degrees F, the titanium has a yield strength better than three times that of series 300 stainless. The curve in your graph for Ti looks more like that of 99% pure Ti (Grade 2) I feel no compelling need to argue with you. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm not an expert. I'm simply looking for clarification of some oft-used data. You have clarified the available data, that's all my post was intending to illicit. |
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Someone mentioned Gemtechs new Ti cans over on the AAC forum a while back asking if they are any good. One of their engineers started saying that Ti is no good for anything more than a small bore bolt gun because at high temperatures Ti absorbs hydrogen. Never explains why that might be a bad thing. I'm sure most metals do some nifty things at hight temperatures that hinder strength over time.
Saying that, now that Gemtech, YHM, and Surefire all offer Ti cans now, I'll be waiting for AAC's new line of "Totally our idea!" Ti cans at next years SHOT Show. |
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Someone mentioned Gemtechs new Ti cans over on the AAC forum a while back asking if they are any good. One of their engineers started saying that Ti is no good for anything more than a small bore bolt gun because at high temperatures Ti absorbs hydrogen. Never explains why that might be a bad thing. I'm sure most metals do some nifty things at hight temperatures that hinder strength over time. Saying that, now that Gemtech, YHM, and Surefire all offer Ti cans now, I'll be waiting for AAC's new line of "Totally our idea!" Ti cans at next years SHOT Show. AAC has been using Ti in their precision cans for a couple years, as have many other manufacturers. It's certainly not new and I doubt anyone would even try to get away with saying that.. In fact, it seems YHM is sort of late to the Ti game comparing timelines to other major manufacturers. Quicksilver has been making primarily Ti cans for several years. The Gemtech G5 has had titanium in it for a while and now they offer a full Ti can. |
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Someone mentioned Gemtechs new Ti cans over on the AAC forum a while back asking if they are any good. One of their engineers started saying that Ti is no good for anything more than a small bore bolt gun because at high temperatures Ti absorbs hydrogen. Never explains why that might be a bad thing. I'm sure most metals do some nifty things at hight temperatures that hinder strength over time. Saying that, now that Gemtech, YHM, and Surefire all offer Ti cans now, I'll be waiting for AAC's new line of "Totally our idea!" Ti cans at next years SHOT Show. AAC has been using Ti in their precision cans for a couple years, as have many other manufacturers. It's certainly not new and I doubt anyone would even try to get away with saying that.. In fact, it seems YHM is sort of late to the Ti game comparing timelines to other major manufacturers. Quicksilver has been making primarily Ti cans for several years. The Gemtech G5 has had titanium in it for a while and now they offer a full Ti can. That's news to me on the AAC can. From how they talked it seamed as if they treat the stuff like the plague. However I think the thread was talking more along the lines of making a 5.56 can in Ti. |
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