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Posted: 12/27/2011 6:25:37 AM EDT
Not only is he hurting himself, but other mg owners too.

http://www.claytonnewsstar.com/2011/12/25/1730030/clayton-man-to-test-law-bring.html

http://carolinashootersforum.com/showthread.php?t=119484
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 6:36:39 AM EDT
It is now the 27th, any updates?
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 8:28:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 8:34:06 AM EDT
Wrong way to pick a fight.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 3:48:52 PM EDT
No MGs in NC is pretty phucked up.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 4:45:35 PM EDT
I really don't see this ending well.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 4:49:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Wrong way to pick a fight.


This.

You don't involuntarily force others to jump on your wagon.

Mike
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 4:49:45 PM EDT
What happens when he loses and no one can have one?
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 5:50:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By olivers_AR:
What happens when he loses and no one can have one?


Then 1000's of legal MGs go the way of the torch
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 6:02:33 PM EDT
dude is an idiot.

refused to tell the guy who gives the permits out on a state level what type of gun and where it would be stored because "he didn't want anyone knowing where he kept the firearm"

basically the dumbshit wouldn't provide enough info to satisfy the guy who doles out the permits and got denied. now he's throwing a fit about it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 7:10:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
I really don't see this ending well.


Either do I.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 7:48:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2011 7:48:45 PM EDT by telc]
I don't get it, what is the law in NC for MG's I thought they could get them with trust or signoff etc.
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 7:59:27 PM EDT
tag for outcome
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 9:05:31 PM EDT
What a jackass
Link Posted: 12/27/2011 11:54:01 PM EDT
Hopefully he speaks to an attorney before actually doing anything. I'd like to see the NFA laws loosened up like most here, but agree that this isn't the right path to challenge the law.
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 6:44:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By telc:
I don't get it, what is the law in NC for MG's I thought they could get them with trust or signoff etc.


I dont think they can do Trusts in NC.
And from what I hear, getting a LEO to sign off is like pulling teeth.
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 11:57:37 AM EDT
(T)hat's (A)bout as crazy as its (G)ets...
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 12:19:12 PM EDT
If I am arrested," Nielsen wrote in his letter, "I will immediately ask the court to issue (an order) to arrest all others who have these weapons."



I don't get that, how could they go after other people who have ATF approved MG's?
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 12:26:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AN94NK:
Originally Posted By telc:
I don't get it, what is the law in NC for MG's I thought they could get them with trust or signoff etc.


I dont think they can do Trusts in NC.
And from what I hear, getting a LEO to sign off is like pulling teeth.


Depends on the county. Mecklenburg Sheriff won't even if you were pulling his teeth.
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 12:47:44 PM EDT
I guess I'd better put some cash together to start buying up all the NC machine guns. Just kidding, sucks to have stupid laws and then have even stupider people take them to court. Bad cases make for bad decisions/laws.

Not kidding about putting the funds away tho.
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 2:28:30 PM EDT
so in his mind he'll either be a hero (his assumed outcome) or the biggest dumbass in the state.

putting other's at risk without their knowledge is shitty though
Link Posted: 12/28/2011 2:50:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By telc:
I don't get it, what is the law in NC for MG's I thought they could get them with trust or signoff etc.

State law is the problem, not Fed law. You can form a trust to avoid CLEO for Fed Purposes, but not for state regulation.
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 9:14:05 PM EDT
I have a trust in NC and there is pretty much no problems buying NFA items execpt MGs there is a c3 dealer in raleigh that keeps pushing aginst trusts and they dont get my $$ but the NC law says you must have a letter fron the local LEO for a MG it blows hard but gotta deal with it for now. This butt head in clayton which is 20 min from me seems like a real dumbass who is gonna screw the pooch for all of us. He is definitly not seeing my cash ever.
Link Posted: 12/29/2011 9:59:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Covertness:
Originally Posted By AN94NK:
Originally Posted By telc:
I don't get it, what is the law in NC for MG's I thought they could get them with trust or signoff etc.


I dont think they can do Trusts in NC.
And from what I hear, getting a LEO to sign off is like pulling teeth.


Depends on the county. Mecklenburg Sheriff won't even if you were pulling his teeth.


Mecklinburg and Raleigh are full of shit. I hate them. Union County used to be gtg but I don't know about now. Have lost touch with most of my family there.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:21:52 PM EDT
Unlike many in this thread, I side with the guy...

The CLEO has no need to know, under STATE LAW, make or storage location. That is between the owner and the BATFE.

And to clarify things, he already OWNS the MG. He wants to bring it to work.

NC is a jacked up state. To many stupid anti-gun laws that make people jump through hoops.. permits to buy pistols, only allowed to have 3 purchase permits at a time, the good ol' 'carry to the terror' to trump up if you are legally oc'ing and some liberal wets themselves at the sight of a gun....

Had to resubmit my paperwork to bring my SBR to NC due to some stupid vague law in NC too... Fuck NC...
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:16:37 AM EDT
Another CLEO not doing his job. Its like the jack azzes who refuse to sign off on on form 1 or 4..........they are clearly violating the rights of the individual.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:38:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
permits to buy pistols, only allowed to have 3 purchase permits at a time, the good ol' 'carry to the terror' to trump up if you are legally oc'ing and some liberal wets themselves at the sight of a gun....

Had to resubmit my paperwork to bring my SBR to NC due to some stupid vague law in NC too... Fuck NC...


I don't know where you got the 3 permits at a time thing, Befor I got my CCW I routinely bought 5 at a time and was offered 10 at a time on several occasions but didn't have the extra coin available.

Jason
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:46:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SCRAMBLD:
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
permits to buy pistols, only allowed to have 3 purchase permits at a time, the good ol' 'carry to the terror' to trump up if you are legally oc'ing and some liberal wets themselves at the sight of a gun....

Had to resubmit my paperwork to bring my SBR to NC due to some stupid vague law in NC too... Fuck NC...


I don't know where you got the 3 permits at a time thing, Befor I got my CCW I routinely bought 5 at a time and was offered 10 at a time on several occasions but didn't have the extra coin available.

Jason


I think that is a county by county thing. The NC "pistol permit" law doesn't prohibit the sheriff from making restrictions on the issuance of purchase permits. In the county I grew up in one had to be a resident of the county for at least a year and have three notarized references from three other county residents who were also residents for at least a year and not related to the applicant before he would issue a permit to a new applicant. After that one had to fill out a form to request more permits. He would issue 2 at a time. He didn't require any proof previous permits had been used before issuing more, but if one applied for "too many" in a given time frame he would want to know why. Interestingly enough, he would sign off on NFA stuff, including machineguns.

It is a lot easier just to get a NC CHP and not worry about county by county restrictions on pistol permits.

As for "going armed to the terror of the public", it is a great internet rumor that open carry is somehow a violation of that common law offense. It isn't. No one can ever point out someone who was convicted of it for otherwise legal open carry. NC doesn't have a statute prohibiting brandishing a firearm, so that is the charge used when someone is brandishing a weapon. One of the elements of the offense is "with the intent to terrorize", someone just being scared isn't enough, there has to be intent.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 2:59:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Landric:

As for "going armed to the terror of the public", it is a great internet rumor that open carry is somehow a violation of that common law offense. It isn't. No one can ever point out someone who was convicted of it for otherwise legal open carry. NC doesn't have a statute prohibiting brandishing a firearm, so that is the charge used when someone is brandishing a weapon. One of the elements of the offense is "with the intent to terrorize", someone just being scared isn't enough, there has to be intent.


Craven and Carteret County used it to dissuade people from open carry.

Lived in Havelock from '91-'02.

Even in the CCW class they mentioned this aspect of the law, and what could happen. It was left up to 'officer discretion'.

So Fuck NC, and their BS laws and permits to buy, and so on and so forth..



Link Posted: 1/1/2012 3:39:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Landric:

As for "going armed to the terror of the public", it is a great internet rumor that open carry is somehow a violation of that common law offense. It isn't. No one can ever point out someone who was convicted of it for otherwise legal open carry. NC doesn't have a statute prohibiting brandishing a firearm, so that is the charge used when someone is brandishing a weapon. One of the elements of the offense is "with the intent to terrorize", someone just being scared isn't enough, there has to be intent.


Craven and Carteret County used it to dissuade people from open carry.

Lived in Havelock from '91-'02.

Even in the CCW class they mentioned this aspect of the law, and what could happen. It was left up to 'officer discretion'.

So Fuck NC, and their BS laws and permits to buy, and so on and so forth..


This is one of the reasons (their NFA laws as well) I could not live in NC.

Mike
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 3:46:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
Originally Posted By Landric:

As for "going armed to the terror of the public", it is a great internet rumor that open carry is somehow a violation of that common law offense. It isn't. No one can ever point out someone who was convicted of it for otherwise legal open carry. NC doesn't have a statute prohibiting brandishing a firearm, so that is the charge used when someone is brandishing a weapon. One of the elements of the offense is "with the intent to terrorize", someone just being scared isn't enough, there has to be intent.


Craven and Carteret County used it to dissuade people from open carry.

Lived in Havelock from '91-'02.

Even in the CCW class they mentioned this aspect of the law, and what could happen. It was left up to 'officer discretion'.

So Fuck NC, and their BS laws and permits to buy, and so on and so forth..





Dissuade how? By making unlawful arrests or telling people it was a violation?

The simple truth is that one can be arrested by an officer who is either malicious or makes a mistake for anything, not just open carry. That is what the courts are for. One could be wrongfully arrested in any state where open carry is legal for openly carrying, not just NC. If people in CHP classes are spreading misinformation about the legal status of open carry in NC then they need to stop. The reality is that you "could" be arrested for a lot of things that you didn't do or were not actually illegal. It doesn't happen often, and when it does, one has recourse. Even the nut (and he was a nut) that was arrested for open carry in Asheville at the airport where Obama was a couple of years back wasn't convicted of going armed to the terror of the public. He was, erroneously, charged with it, but not convicted. He was convicted of a couple of offenses of which he was guilty, trespassing and some sort of impersonation charge, IIRC.

North Carolina has some gun laws that are really bad, no argument there, but spreading misinformation about them doesn't help anyone. All states have stupid laws of one form or another. Your current one (FL) has a guy that lives in my town entered into NCIC as wanted for a felony fraud, but they won't extradite him from North Carolina. He also has a FL CCW permit which they won't revoke unless he is convicted of said felony. So, he can legally carry in NC even though NC wouldn't issue him a permit while he is wanted for a felony, nor could he legally purchase a gun from a dealer while wanted for a felony. He is a criminal, he gets arrested on a regular basis and is generally carrying a gun (legally). Since nothing in NC law prohibits a NC resident from carrying on an out of state permit (I don't have a problem with that, just Florida's refusal to extradite him), he is perfectly legal to carry here.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 5:47:40 PM EDT
I never said anything about being 'convicted'. I only said you could be arrested and charged with 'carry to the terror'. That is bad enough. And cops WILL use that charge to arrest you, as you even indicated. And that is a hassle in and of it's self, and in most cases, end up costing the person charged a fair amount of money, even if it was 'erroneous'..
So you basically proved my point for me..

As for the Fl guy in your area, Fl can't extradite, they can only ask for extradition. NC would be the one to serve the extradition warrant.
As for Fl not revoking his CCW, without actual information on what the case actually is, I'll withhold comment.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:21:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy:
I never said anything about being 'convicted'. I only said you could be arrested and charged with 'carry to the terror'. That is bad enough. And cops WILL use that charge to arrest you, as you even indicated. And that is a hassle in and of it's self, and in most cases, end up costing the person charged a fair amount of money, even if it was 'erroneous'..
So you basically proved my point for me..


What I said was that it is possible to be arrested for that, or anything else, in error or maliciously. I've never personally seen it happen, and the only case I know of involved the guy at the Asheville airport when Obama was there. I am sure there have been others, open carry is legal, and I haven't seen any evidence that one is any more likely to be arrested wrongfully for illegal open carry than for anything else. I'm not a fan of open carry for various tactical reasons, but I don't fault anyone who wants to carry openly. Prior to 1995 it was, after all, the only carry option for people in NC-including off-duty LEOs outside their jurisdictions. NC's basic law enforcement training is clear on the elements of the offense of "going armed to the terror of the public", and one of the elements is "with the intent to terrorize". The primary problem with the offense is it is common law rather than statutory, so people can't simply read the language and determine who constitutes an offense. Were the same offense spelled out in statute I suspect we wouldn't have nearly the misunderstandings or debates that we do.

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
As for the Fl guy in your area, Fl can't extradite, they can only ask for extradition. NC would be the one to serve the extradition warrant.
As for Fl not revoking his CCW, without actual information on what the case actually is, I'll withhold comment.


Actually what would happen is that Florida would have to agree to extradite, the guy would be arrested in NC on a fugitive warrant, and would either be allowed to consent to extradition to Florida or fight the extradition. Ultimately it would be up to Florida to foot the bill for transporting him back to Florida, and it appears that Florida isn't willing to do so since the entry in NCIC says they will extradite from contiguous states only.

I really don't have a problem with the decision to not revoke his permit as I do the entry into NCIC combined with the decision not to revoke his permit. Basically what the state is saying to other jurisdictions is that "we, the state of Florida, have enough evidence to suggest to us that Mr. xxx is guilty of a felony to arrest and prosecute him. However, since he is not conveniently located close to our jurisdiction, we won't actually prosecute him and oh, by the way, he has a perfectly valid gun permit, so please be careful because if he hears he is wanted on the radio when your dispatcher gets a hit in NCIC on him as wanted for a felony".

I think they either need to take him out of NCIC or revoke his gun permit.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 4:20:04 PM EDT
Update
http://triad.news14.com/content/local_news/651982/machine-gun-permit-denial-sparks-investigation-into-county-leaders
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 5:36:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 6:49:58 PM EDT by telc]
I still don't get whats going on, he is a Class 3 dealer and he owns machine guns and he can take them to the range etc. But he can't take them to his work, which is a gun shop? Can someone explain what is going on? If he is a dealer and can't get a permit how does the people he sells to even get them in NC?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 4:05:56 AM EDT
Perhaps his point, which he's making badly, is that if he can't get a permit, neither can his customers. If they can't get a permit, he can't sell.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:18:28 AM EDT
Doesn't this guy have an FFL and SOT? How does he need any local approval or this MG is his personal one and not the businesses?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:28:56 AM EDT
I'm confused. He legally owns a MG that is located in Nash County, NC. Why does he need the Johnston County sheriff's approval to bring it to his place of business in Clayton, Johnston County, NC. If its already legally in the state why does he need another permit?
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