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Posted: 2/2/2020 10:51:03 AM EDT
Hi,
I'm a new member here, but old member of the nightvision.com forum which no longer works. For my first post, I suggest a test between a pvs 14 with a harris omni7 intensifier tube and a pvs14 with a katod tube. The exterior conditions were a level 5 night. No moon, 90% cloudy N°1 PVs14 Mx11769/uv Harris Omni 7 Mini specs 64 lp/mm Sn 28 Sensibility 2200 micA Sensibility at 880: 120 N°2 Pvs14 Mx10160 style Katod EPM101GSH.01.11S3 Specs 65 lp/mm Sn 26.9 Sensibility 1940 at 850: 245 Ebi 0.03 Gain 52000 (Edit) After looking my other pics i found identical settings with same speed and focal. 
 Another pics with same speed, focal iso Night level 4 (stars light) 
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Posted: 2/2/2020 5:35:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Glad to see another French NV enthusiat !
Honestly the Ekran performs much better than I thought it would. I've heard nothing but bad things about Russian manufacturers (both Ekran and Katod) , I'd really like to try one to see what it's really about. I was told that Russians do not measure specs the same way as US and EU manufacturers , resulting in higher numbers than what they really were. Do you know more about that ? |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 6:57:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for sharing. The Katod looks good. The phosphor color looks same/similar to Photonis Echo WP.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 1:06:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Nice pics, thanks for sharing. Can your camera be set to black and white? I find that helps in comparing pics of green and white phosphor tubes. Both are definitely strong performers. Omni 7 is almost as good as it gets and outside the US, it really is the about the best.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 7:18:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Had a look at the EXIF data, shutter speed and ISO is not kept constant in all the shots, that's why the Katod tube looks better than it really is.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 10:14:02 AM EDT
[#5]
I guess this can put the myths to sleep, Katod is on the same level as Omni 7 tubes.
And if there is a difference, its so small that its probably not noticable to the normal user. Which of the pictures is the Katod and which is the Omni ? |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 11:37:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess this can put the myths to sleep, Katod is on the same level as Omni 7 tubes. And if there is a difference, its so small that its probably not noticable to the normal user. Which of the pictures is the Katod and which is the Omni ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess this can put the myths to sleep, Katod is on the same level as Omni 7 tubes. And if there is a difference, its so small that its probably not noticable to the normal user. Which of the pictures is the Katod and which is the Omni ?
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Posted: 2/5/2020 4:26:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Could it be argued that its because of the Sensibility 2200 micA ? Wish we had more than one picture to go from.
Example my Katod tube is: SNR': 24 FOM: 1560 Photo Response: 2140 Autogated: Yes Gain Type: Autogain Radiant Sensitivity at 850nm: 276 Gain 2*10-5lx: 57.000 I wonder if that would compete on same level. |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 4:53:37 PM EDT
[#8]
I was assuming the OMNI VII tube looks brighter because it has manual gain and the WP tube cannot manually adjust gain. So it is hard to get a true apples to apples comparison IMO.
Min FOM of an OMNI VII should be 1,792 (min 64 lp/mm x min 28 S/N). |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 5:57:59 PM EDT
[#9]
For katod its only a rumor. The quality and good specs are here. But for ekran it's a reality. Specs are ok but viability and manufacturing quality is the weak point.
For the specs measurement it the same method between American and Russian. But different for photonis. The gain value could be multiplicated by pi |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 5:59:45 PM EDT
[#10]
How well the optics are focused makes a big difference too. Looks like it could be the case in a couple of the pics.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 6:03:09 PM EDT
[#11]
You are a bit wrong a bit true, all pics are did in manual with same setting if possible to be the near as possible of the real view.
Sometimes i had to reduce speed or focal from 1/15 to 1/10 because the green is not captured identical with the white. In this case the picture lead into error. And not the realityperceived. So I modified my text to be more explicit. The green in all case is more brighter. A notch above katod. |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 6:37:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes it's not really easy. I should do all in manual to be near possible to the reality I saw inside the monocular.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 7:08:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it's not really easy. I should do all in manual to be near possible to the reality I saw inside the monocular. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 3:33:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are a bit wrong a bit true, all pics are did in manual with same setting if possible to be the near as possible of the real view. Sometimes i had to reduce speed or focal from 1/15 to 1/10 because the green is not captured identical with the white. In this case the picture lead into error. And not the realityperceived. So I modified my text to be more explicit. The green in all case is more brighter. A notch above katod. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 7:05:30 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. Sometimes you have to alter settings to match what your eye sees. If you do more comparisons, take video next time instead of pictures, raising each monocular to the camera while filming in one take on the same scene. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. Sometimes you have to alter settings to match what your eye sees. If you do more comparisons, take video next time instead of pictures, raising each monocular to the camera while filming in one take on the same scene. 
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Posted: 2/6/2020 8:44:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Wonder why OP specifically stated that camera settings were the same in his 1st post, even though he knew they were different and later admitted as much when called out on it.
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Posted: 2/6/2020 9:59:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, for an objective comparison you should NEVER have different camera settings between them. The only variable is the tube: shutter speed, aperture, focal length and ISO must be exactly the same (same applies for video). Not only does changing them make the comparison useless but it can produce very misleading results. The last two photos would have you believe that the Katod tube performs better than the Omni VII. The problem is the former was shot with a shutter speed of 1/13 seconds and the latter 1/22 seconds. That means 70% more light went into producing the Katod's photo compared to the Omni VII. I feel video is usually a better comparison and is why I mentioned he film both tubes during the same take (same settings). I’m assuming he’s using a smart phone. What would you recommend to do if the camera doesn’t match what the eye is actually seeing? For example one looks great and the other too dark or the other way around (one is too bright). |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 12:13:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would you recommend to do if the camera doesn’t match what the eye is actually seeing? For example one looks great and the other too dark or the other way around (one is too bright). |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:13:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An in-person demonstration. Photos of NV optical devices will never recreate the incredible experience of actually using them and trying to do a legitimate comparison with pics or videos never seems to satisfy. 
100% agree but obviously this is rarely possible. In particular different tube mfgs, spec ranges, etc. Even at a class, I would think too much time would be wasted taking away from training to do this in any meaningful way besides a quick peek. The inter-webz is where everyone looks first. Care to share your opinion on settings - Do you attempt to match what you see, etc etc ? |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:27:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to share your opinion on settings - Do you attempt to match what you see, etc etc ? I'm a much bigger fan of the blind test at the range - hand a dude my PVS-14 with an echo in it and they're happy as can be. No flaming for it being "gEn TwO pLuS" like you get online... side-by-side it with some filmless hotness or mil-surp greenies and most of the time guys are just amazed they can see and at all the laser beams flying around the range hehe. Personally I'm willing to pay a little premium and let a pro pick tubes for me, rather than spending the time and effort trying to do it any better myself. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 5:42:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, for an objective comparison you should NEVER have different camera settings between them. The only variable is the tube: shutter speed, aperture, focal length and ISO must be exactly the same (same applies for video). Not only does changing them make the comparison useless but it can produce very misleading results. The last two photos would have you believe that the Katod tube performs better than the Omni VII. The problem is the former was shot with a shutter speed of 1/13 seconds and the latter 1/22 seconds. That means 70% more light went into producing the Katod's photo compared to the Omni VII. At the beginning I would only want to be the nearest of the real view inside. I will do another pictures or video soon with your advice. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 5:45:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that is ideal. I feel video is usually a better comparison and is why I mentioned he film both tubes during the same take (same settings). I’m assuming he’s using a smart phone. What would you recommend to do if the camera doesn’t match what the eye is actually seeing? For example one looks great and the other too dark or the other way around (one is too bright). |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 6:11:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder why OP specifically stated that camera settings were the same in his 1st post, even though he knew they were different and later admitted as much when called out on it. I didn't remember, witsh kind of setting I used the first pics series (with car).Perhaps semi automatic mode. Normally I always using manual for bring near of the real. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 6:22:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because I've looked only the status of 2 pics. The pics are tooke more than one year ago (September 2018), I thought I had it all done in manual. That's why i admits the mistake after status verification. I didn't remember, witsh kind of setting I used the first pics series (with car).Perhaps semi automatic mode. Normally I always using manual for bring near of the real. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 6:32:45 PM EDT
[#25]
I just edit the first series. The first 4 pics
This time same iso speed and focal. If I will put a note I will say omni7 10/10. Katof 7/10 |
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Posted: 2/7/2020 6:17:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you still have the two devices, please do more comparisons. I think it’s & interesting useful to see Russian gen 3. Here in the USA you don’t hear of Katod much, or at least I haven’t. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 10:38:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I agree that is ideal. I feel video is usually a better comparison and is why I mentioned he film both tubes during the same take (same settings). I’m assuming he’s using a smart phone. What would you recommend to do if the camera doesn’t match what the eye is actually seeing? For example one looks great and the other too dark or the other way around (one is too bright). P.S. Filming in the same take doesn't guarantee anything as the camera continuously adjusts those parameters when in auto mode, you need to be in manual. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 11:48:44 AM EDT
[#28]
@tiantian
When using your smart phone, get the ProCamera app, it let’s you manually adjust the camera settings. It’s a great app. ETA: I’m an iPhone guy, and don’t know the Galaxy. You obviously were able to change settings but maybe this app is still worthwhile to you. |
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