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Posted: 11/13/2020 9:48:25 AM EDT
I currently have a silencerco hybrid direct thread on a 300 blackout and an AEM5 that was just approved for a recce clone. I have a mk18 and am putting together a 13.7" upper and want a shorter suppressor than my hybrid to run on them. I'm pretty sold on the RC2 even though there's reports of it being "loud". Can any of you with an RC2 weigh in with your opinion of it or tell me if I should look at another option?
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I bought one. It's in jail. Get ready for people to guide you to their brand can, mostly because they don't want to pay a little bit more for Surefire.
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Quoted: I bought one. It's in jail. Get ready for people to guide you to their brand can, mostly because they don't want to pay a little bit more for Surefire. View Quote Kinda what I'm expecting. I don't care about the price of the surefire. I just like the minimal POI shift, blowback, and durability I've read about on the surefire. I have a silencerco hybrid on my blackout if I want a quiet gun. |
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The weakness of Surefire cans is their muzzle devices and mount.
If you want quite, stick with the 3 prong flashider and skip the Warcomp. https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-26-surefire-762rc2-savage-308 |
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Quoted: The weakness of Surefire cans is their muzzle devices and mount. If you want quite, stick with the 3 prong flashider and skip the Warcomp. https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-26-surefire-762rc2-savage-308 View Quote I planned on running a 3 prong on my mk18 and warcomp to get 16" OAL on a 13.7". |
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Quoted: I currently have a silencerco hybrid direct thread on a 300 blackout and an AEM5 that was just approved for a recce clone. I have a mk18 and am putting together a 13.7" upper and want a shorter suppressor than my hybrid to run on them. I'm pretty sold on the RC2 even though there's reports of it being "loud". Can any of you with an RC2 weigh in with your opinion of it or tell me if I should look at another option? View Quote All of my friends who have RC2's love them. My complaint about them is: -Use the brake or FH, not the warcomps that kill your labyrinth seal. Moving to brakes has nearly eliminated my stuck can issue. -Nothing will mitigate the gas fouling coming out that alignment notch. |
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Quoted: The weakness of Surefire cans is their muzzle devices and mount. If you want quite, stick with the 3 prong flashider and skip the Warcomp. https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-26-surefire-762rc2-savage-308 View Quote Ive seen surefire ragged on here the last few years but this is the first time I have ever seen anyone hate on their mounts or muzzle devices |
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Quoted: Ive seen surefire ragged on here the last few years but this is the first time I have ever seen anyone hate on their mounts or muzzle devices View Quote I've seen people talk about the warcomps a few times- getting them stuck, and gas leakage- putting ports where the labyrinth seals would be makes the system less efficiently sealed, and more likely to carbon bind. The RC2 is a really good can. The RC2 and one muzzle device is about twice the price of a Recce 5 which comes with the muzzle device, and they compare really closely when you're running those both on a pulse system and observing muzzle flash, and comparing weight and size. Gas in the face is similarly not a problem with either. I think the Recce 5 has a better tonal sound than the RC2, and the RC2 produces slightly less impact to bolt speed. The muzzle device options are more numerous and more affordably priced, and the supported thread pitches are probably more diverse with the Recce 5. There are pros and cons to both. |
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Quoted: Ive seen surefire ragged on here the last few years but this is the first time I have ever seen anyone hate on their mounts or muzzle devices View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The weakness of Surefire cans is their muzzle devices and mount. If you want quite, stick with the 3 prong flashider and skip the Warcomp. https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-26-surefire-762rc2-savage-308 Ive seen surefire ragged on here the last few years but this is the first time I have ever seen anyone hate on their mounts or muzzle devices First of all, thanks to folks for highlighting my data! Second of all, to be clear, when I wrote that test report, it was not my intent to "hate" on their mounts/muzzle devices. The WARCOMP is simply not intended for sustained suppressed operation; the designer of the mount and silencers told me it is intended for operators requiring enhanced unsuppressed shooting dynamics (less muzzle rise, etc - stuff I don't really focus on, as someone who just looks at sound signature and pressure parameters in testing). The WARCOMP is basically for folks who shoot their gun unsuppressed a lot, and want an option to suppress it in a pinch. This is straight from Barry to me. Just saying what he told me. I didn't know that when I first tested the silencer with the WARCOMP back in May, and that's why I waited until I could test it a second time with the proper "suppressed" mount - I wanted to make sure the data didn't mislead people. If I had released the data back in May, first, without testing the 762-RC2 on the SOCOM 3-Prong Flash Hider, I think I would have done a disservice to the community, and definitely to Surefire. I was actually a little red-faced when I talked with Surefire, because I probably should have done more research before testing on the WARCOMP but in the end I'm glad I did so people would have the data. Until I had completely analyzed all the data, I didn't realize how cool the RC2 actually is. Sure, it's heavy and long but dang.... the low back pressure in a silencer of its sound performance is pretty dang interesting to me. Not the quietest thing but definitely not the loudest. |
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Everything is "loud" compared to my AEM5, that said, I have x2 556 RC2 and a 556 RC. Zero regrets.
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The warcomps are awesome but they do foul up/lock up faster than the FHs and MBs.
Sure, there are downsides to the SF cans, but at 6.2" and 17oz, that's what I'll buying while I wait for Dead Air and Rugged to roll out dedicated 556 cans. |
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I assume the issue with the MINI2 is it's not suitable for SBR's? Certainly the performance seems comparable,
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TBAC Dominus K. Adds 4.5 inches and weighs 10 oz. that is an amazing can
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Quoted: I assume the issue with the MINI2 is it's not suitable for SBR's? Certainly the performance seems comparable,
View Quote Silencer shop's range report is running ~7-8DB louder on the Mini2 vs the RC2. That's making it seem like 1DB isn't the difference between the two models. Mini2 RC2 Recce 5 tested better. We ran the recce 5 against the RC2 on our pulse meter, and it didn't do as well as the silencer shop test with the handheld B&K, but overall par or bettered the RC2 in sound (we ran only one test string for video also so all cans were fairly represented). Shortly after the video we did a little more tuning of the Recce 5 and pulled it down to 132 muzzle, 134 ear on the 16" 5.56mm MK1. At that point it beats the RC2 in sound on both guns on the same pulse meter. That improvement also reduced backpressure, and muzzle flash a bit to the point I personally think the Recce 5 has lower flash than the RC2 granted we haven't done extensive testing, we're just observing the flash in low light. The Recce 5 is a cool can- I can shoot a rubber block wall point blank indoors with no ear protection without ringing my ears. That's kind of a quantum leap in performance as far as I am aware in my 15 years in industry. Again the RC2 is also very good. I'm not a big fan of the mount, but I think the RC2 performance is highly under-rated in its present form. The RC2 is better sound performing than all other industry 5.56mm suppressors I'm aware of except for the current production Recce 5. Griffin Armament RECCE 5 Sound Test Comparison - Saker ASR 556k, HX-QD 556, SRD556-QD, SOCOM556-RC2 |
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Quoted: Looks to me like the MINI2 (142.89 dB ear average) outperformed the RC2 (146.60 dB ear average). That would seem to call into question the integrity of the Silencer Shop data. At a minimum, they botched the RC2 ear average. Am I reading the data wrong? https://wickedstone.com/Surefire_MINI2.jpg https://wickedstone.com/Surefire_RC2.jpg View Quote Their tested Recce 5 was older before we took on a full-spectrum approach and did work to pull down shooters ear sound, but our latest version would probably test within 1DB muzzle of that test on their handheld meter because the pulse is ~132DB and is typically about 2-3DB louder than the 2209 or handheld meters on our template A weighted at max speed 262KHZ. I wouldn't be too surprised if use had an influence on the test results. They probably have a lot of demo rounds on their units, and the RC2 is probably significantly more popular than the Mini2 for demo events. The RC2 has ~13 baffles, and is coaxial (tube in tube with design intent functional air passage between tubes) so it has about 3 times the surface area of a Recce 5 for heating per round and fouling to effect, and there are some very small coaxial flow features in it that might pack up and effect the sound performance and backpressure generation. Our test was conducted on a brand new (unfouled) RC2 and brand new Recce 5, before our last tuning improvement of the Recce 5 which was influenced by the testing and being unhappy about the RC2 outperforming our can in one category. Fouling is essentially the stone age version of PVD (physical vapor deposition) coatings, and fouling is probably a thickness per round, on all exposed surfaces, except the areas like the bore where the abrasive powder wears the buildup away over time. Also our testing standards are a bit different. They (silencer shop) are mil-std ear using the handheld as far as I know (either right or left), we are using the pulse and Ase Utra style test settup with the ear mics on the shooters ears to tell people what's happening at their ears. We are using Griffin MK1 carbines, they are using something else. |
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I have a 556 RC2. It stays on my 11.5" KAC SBR and overall I'm very happy with it. It sounds good, it's nowhere near hearing safe, but it takes the edge off and for me it's the difference between having to wear muffs and plugs or getting away with just plugs. The mount hasn't given me any problems, I take the can off while it's still warm after shooting, and I use a Bootleg adjustable bolt carrier in that rifle. It makes for a very pleasant, low gas setup.
ETA - don't get too hung up on decibel ratings. It's still loud as hell to my ears, but so are all rifles shooting supersonic cartridges. I've been fortunate that I have relatively good and undamaged hearing, and I like to keep it that way. |
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Quoted: Kinda what I'm expecting. I don't care about the price of the surefire. I just like the minimal POI shift, blowback, and durability I've read about on the surefire. I have a silencerco hybrid on my blackout if I want a quiet gun. View Quote KAC QDC is super similar except the mounting interface is superior. I have multiple socom cans and now a QDC. |
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Get the RC2 you won't regret it. It has less back pressure than a lot of other 5.56 cans, the mount is rock solid, it is plenty quiet. I wish I could replace my 5.56 Griffin M4SD II for another Surefire.
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Any 5.56 can is going to be loud. If you're chasing decibels, you're in the wrong caliber/can combination.
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I just learned that the 7.62 mini is the same size as the 556. Is there a significant loss in sound reduction by going to the 7.62? I like the idea of being able to use it on .308 down the road. I have a can that will handle that already, but plan to use it as a dedicated .300 blackout.
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Quoted: I just learned that the 7.62 mini is the same size as the 556. Is there a significant loss in sound reduction by going to the 7.62? I like the idea of being able to use it on .308 down the road. I have a can that will handle that already, but plan to use it as a dedicated .300 blackout. View Quote I have one in jail. It's my understanding that, at the ear, the 762mini and RC2 will produce similar decibals but the 762mini will have a lower tone. I liked the form factor of the rc2 and the ability to throw it on a .30 caliber bolt gun or a .300blk gun later on was attractive to me. |
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Quoted: I just learned that the 7.62 mini is the same size as the 556. Is there a significant loss in sound reduction by going to the 7.62? I like the idea of being able to use it on .308 down the road. I have a can that will handle that already, but plan to use it as a dedicated .300 blackout. View Quote My friend bought one with that same line of thinking and regretted it, it is loud and has a huge flash signature on shorter barrels. |
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If the Warcomp is not designed for/preferred for long term suppressor use, then which of the remaining Surefire muzzle devices are recommended for primarily suppressed shooting? I have a couple of MK18's (DD factory uppers) that I'm looking to suppress and was planning on using Warcomps paired with RC2's. I have a 7.62 Warcomp on my self built AR-10 and its great regarding flash/muzzle rise suppression, but I also plan to get a 7.62 RC2 for that eventually. So, in other words, now is the time to change.
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Quoted: I'm not saying it's a bad suppressor. But my two biggest complaints when compared to the RC2 would be back pressure and weight. View Quote The suppressor weight is ~1/2 ounce heavier. The mounts for the M4SD II are about 1-1.5 ounces lighter than surefire muzzle devices, so the system weight of the M4SD II is ~ 1/2 to 1 ounce lighter than the RC2. The new ECO-FLO baffles are going in future M4SD II suppressors so they will have lower backpressure, and lower ear signature- probably half ounce lighter weight. Before the DEA FAST team was disbanded, they selected the M4SD K over the Surefire suppressor after a T&E of the units. |
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Quoted: The suppressor weight is ~1/2 ounce heavier. The mounts for the M4SD II are about 1-1.5 ounces lighter than surefire muzzle devices, so the system weight of the M4SD II is ~ 1/2 to 1 ounce lighter than the RC2. The new ECO-FLO baffles are going in future M4SD II suppressors so they will have lower backpressure, and lower ear signature- probably half ounce lighter weight. Before the DEA FAST team was disbanded, they selected the M4SD K over the Surefire suppressor after a T&E of the units. View Quote I can't speak to the muzzle device weights because I have not weighed them. But the back pressure is significantly more compared to the RC2. That's great you are changing the baffle design to decrease back pressure but that does me no good or people buying the current design. The surefire can in my opinion is better, I've shot thousands of rounds through both cans on various sbr's and the surefire is my prefered can. |
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Just got mine, haven't shot it yet, and I barely bought another warcomp and read this thread smh |
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Quoted: I can't speak to the muzzle device weights because I have not weighed them. But the back pressure is significantly more compared to the RC2. That's great you are changing the baffle design to decrease back pressure but that does me no good or people buying the current design. The surefire can in my opinion is better, I've shot thousands of rounds through both cans on various sbr's and the surefire is my prefered can. View Quote The design has been changed the first cans with the flow through design were sold in January (30SDK's). We can upgrade the cores it has a cost and requires blasting, cutting, re-coreing, rewelding, repainting but it can be done. It's not something we really want to do (it isn't efficient or a batch process), but it is something that can be done. I don't know what the cost is. That would be a customer service inquiry. |
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Quoted: A warcomp won't get you to 16" with a 13.7" barrel, consider thread overlap in your calculations. A warcomp will get a 14.5" barrel to 16.1". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I planned on running a 3 prong on my mk18 and warcomp to get 16" OAL on a 13.7". A warcomp won't get you to 16" with a 13.7" barrel, consider thread overlap in your calculations. A warcomp will get a 14.5" barrel to 16.1". Not to be nit-picky but the 3 prong Warcomp installed on 14.5 should be an OAL of: 16.54in plus whatever shims are needed unless my math is wrong 14.5 barrel length - .625 of thread (Average length on a milspec barrel) + the Warcomps length of 2.67in = 16.54in (not including any shims) It’s unfortunate that these numbers are so important. Someone please correct me if I am wrong |
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Quoted: The design has been changed the first cans with the flow through design were sold in January (30SDK's). We can upgrade the cores it has a cost and requires blasting, cutting, re-coreing, rewelding, repainting but it can be done. It's not something we really want to do (it isn't efficient or a batch process), but it is something that can be done. I don't know what the cost is. That would be a customer service inquiry. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I can't speak to the muzzle device weights because I have not weighed them. But the back pressure is significantly more compared to the RC2. That's great you are changing the baffle design to decrease back pressure but that does me no good or people buying the current design. The surefire can in my opinion is better, I've shot thousands of rounds through both cans on various sbr's and the surefire is my prefered can. The design has been changed the first cans with the flow through design were sold in January (30SDK's). We can upgrade the cores it has a cost and requires blasting, cutting, re-coreing, rewelding, repainting but it can be done. It's not something we really want to do (it isn't efficient or a batch process), but it is something that can be done. I don't know what the cost is. That would be a customer service inquiry. @green0 any word on re-baffling the SD and K lines become an option? |
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Quoted: @green0 any word on re-baffling the SD and K lines become an option? View Quote I think elective cost would be about $250. They have to cut welds, remove the core, re-weld a core with the new baffles, weld the core into the tube, blast, paint, cure and return ship. I think the reason it isn't on a list somewhere is that it isn't conducive to productivity so it isn't work we want to solicit. |
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