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Posted: 9/9/2013 6:41:33 PM EDT
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My Savage 10 a I bought a bit over a year ago has been nothing but trouble
Now riddle me this: New cases fired and a round half of them are very hard to extract mild to medium loads nothing even close to max and every single charge weight to +-.1 or less of the 50 28 are smooth as butter after firing the other 22 are sticky and require a good whack to get them extracted what I mean is after I get home and try the fired cases back thru the gun now I would figure that even with FL sizing the sticky cases would remain sticky, like head bulge the die cant get, but no cases only fired in this gun all cases return to plop into the chamber and fall out 
then on the next loading they stick again WTF I have segregated the non sticky cases to see if somehow I have ruined the 22 that stuck 
anybody ever have this sort of thing happen? Or does this sound like a chamber problem I have already sent the rifle back once |
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I would think a rough chamber could cause this but would imagine all of them would be a little sticky if that were the case.
When you are ejecting a round are you applying any upward force while trying to pull the bolt back? Some bolt actions will bind if this dual force is applied. (It can feel almost like the entire action is locked) |
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I would think a rough chamber could cause this but would imagine all of them would be a little sticky if that were the case. When you are ejecting a round are you applying any upward force while trying to pull the bolt back? Some bolt actions will bind if this dual force is applied. (It can feel almost like the entire action is locked) not that I know of, even when i smack teh handle back with a "tool" its tough |
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Stiff extraction is usually a sign of excessive headspace.
Does this happen with factory ammo? Do you have a headspace gauge? Hornady or otherwise. Assuming that your resizing correctly, and it sounds like you are, you can take a before shot/after shot to see the difference. FOR EXAMPLE: Using some new FL sized 308 reloads yesterday, they measure 1.615 (shoulder to rim) before shooting, and 1.62 after shooting. SAAMI max for 308 is something like 1.630, no-go is like 1.634. Do you have a go/no go gauge? If no, I would get one. If you don't, try hitting your local shop, any smith is going to have em. If it closes on the no-go, call up savage and ask for help. |
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Stiff extraction is usually a sign of excessive headspace. Does this happen with factory ammo? Do you have a headspace gauge? Hornady or otherwise. Assuming that your resizing correctly, and it sounds like you are, you can take a before shot/after shot to see the difference. FOR EXAMPLE: Using some new FL sized 308 reloads yesterday, they measure 1.615 (shoulder to rim) before shooting, and 1.62 after shooting. SAAMI max for 308 is something like 1.630, no-go is like 1.634. Do you have a go/no go gauge? If no, I would get one. If you don't, try hitting your local shop, any smith is going to have em. If it closes on the no-go, call up savage and ask for help. Already been sent back once and they said headspace was fine I dont have any gauges yet |
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Already been sent back once and they said headspace was fine I dont have any gauges yet Your rifle chamber dimensions are only part of the headspace issue. http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2069%20Headspace%20080722.pdf From the above citation, you will see that you need to measure your case dimensions as well. |
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I don't know what cartridge you are working with, but there are a lot of 308 Savage rifles out there with extremely short throats.
Some so short, that the bullets on factory ammo are getting stuck in the lands. If you have one of the Savage short throats, then I would bet that your loads are way over pressure due to the fact that your bullets are pig jammed into the lands. Find the Max OAL for your rifle/chamber before you load any more ammo. If your's is indeed short thoated, you can reduce pressures by seating deeper and stay away from factory ammo, or you can bring it to a Smith and have the throat lengthened. OH, and if you talk to Savage, do not mention handloads, they may just void your warranty. |
| OK let me see if I understand this. You are taking your cases that have been fired and are running them back through your weapon when you get home? Out of 50 shot cases 22 stick when cycled into the action? Once your resize all 50 cases they all cycle just fine with no sticking? Am I correct? If I am correct then the answer is easy, stop cycling fired cases through your action. |
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Well I'm not sure I'm following the OP correctly either.
Does this stickyness ever happen with factory ammo? If the answer is yes then perhaps you do have a gun issue; short chamber, out of round chamber, or just plain old rough chamber. How does a brand new clean factory just fired casing look? Lots of scuffing and scratching on the body? That could be an issue of a rough chamber. Are your reloads chambering without binding? What I mean is can you close the bolt without feeling the lugs draging on the recesses in the receiver? Your reloads should be chambering without much feel, almost like closing the bolt on an empty rifle. What I'm getting at is I am wondering if you're not sizing enough. Anyways it's hard telling from the post, some more clarification and perhaps some pictures of your fired brass. ETA- Dumb question- what are you using for brass? I know I have had issues with LC machine gun ammo with not wanting to take to the sizing and the brass springing back. I wouldn't expect that from commercial brass only fired in sporting arms though. ETA2- You ever shoot that combloc or combloc commercial ammo with lacquer coating in your rifle? That stuff can deposit in a chamber and cause all sorts of extraction issues. My surplus guns with lacquer coated steel cases always stick like that, especially the lacquer coated steel cases. I really doubt this is your issue but I got nothing else to go on at the moment. |
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Yes lots of scratches on factory ammo too. Never shot combloc crap in it
chamber has been well scrubbed several times so thats not it either and they are sticky when I shoot them, but I segregated the sticky ones out before my last load cycle so when i got home i found what ones stuck, by running the emptys back thru |
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Yes lots of scratches on factory ammo too. Never shot combloc crap in it chamber has been well scrubbed several times so thats not it either and they are sticky when I shoot them, but I segregated the sticky ones out before my last load cycle so when i got home i found what ones stuck, by running the emptys back thru "sticky when I shoot them" means what? Does it mean they chamber hard and it is difficult to close the bolt on your loaded rounds? If this is what you mean then you most likely have an FL sizing issue or an OAL issue. Check to make sure you are sizing properly, if the sized cases chamber and extract with ease after sizing then check your OAL. Find the max OAL for your choice of bullet and reduce by .015-.030 Minimum. Are you crimping? Make sure you have your seating die set up for No crimp, no much crimp can buckle the case and cause hard to chamber issues. |
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Sounds like you got a rough and shitty chamber if your factory brass is coming out with scratches on it.
Talk to a local smith, he might be able to polish it or even recut the chamber. If you have a clean barrel (no iron sights), It's damned easy to set the barrel back on a savage. Screw off locking nut, chuck in lathe, cut just beyond the poor chamber cut. Screw back on with headspace go gage, lock it down with barrel nut and check with gages again. I hesitate to tell you just to polish it yourself just in case you go nuts with polishing as you can make them too fat if you just go silly with an electric drill with steel wool, or a polishing compound. If you're judicious you can polish up the high spots and not get rid of all of the depth of the scratches and make it work considerably better. |
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I would like to see a picture of those "scratches". Cold be the chamber, could also be as simple as the case ridding on the front lip of the mag as it enters the chamber. good point, usually rough chambers have "rings" where they spun chips with the reamer. Sharp magazine lips are generally a pair of fore aft straight lines. Magazine markings shouldn't have any affect on the function of the ammo or causing stickyness. |
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rounds chamber just fine, sticky extraction after I have shot
I "chamber checked" all my rounds and they were just fine I have never had issues with any of my other reloads in any other gun my previous .308 I had, had zero issues, just would not shoot much of a group past 3 rounds I single feed most of the time so teh scratches are not from feeding |
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rounds chamber just fine, sticky extraction after I have shot That is a sign of high pressure! Have you checked your Max OAL for the bullets you are using? Like I said earlier, Savage has some 308 Win with almost no throat. If your bullets are contacting the lands then you are going to have high pressure issues. There are several ways to check Max OAL here is one. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=97328&highlight=coal |
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rounds chamber just fine, sticky extraction after I have shot That is a sign of high pressure! Have you checked your Max OAL for the bullets you are using? Like I said earlier, Savage has some 308 Win with almost no throat. If your bullets are contacting the lands then you are going to have high pressure issues. There are several ways to check Max OAL here is one. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=97328&highlight=coal |
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That is a sign of high pressure! Have you checked your Max OAL for the bullets you are using? Like I said earlier, Savage has some 308 Win with almost no throat. If your bullets are contacting the lands then you are going to have high pressure issues. There are several ways to check Max OAL here is one. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=97328&highlight=coal Quoted:
rounds chamber just fine, sticky extraction after I have shot That is a sign of high pressure! Have you checked your Max OAL for the bullets you are using? Like I said earlier, Savage has some 308 Win with almost no throat. If your bullets are contacting the lands then you are going to have high pressure issues. There are several ways to check Max OAL here is one. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=97328&highlight=coal I know that it can be a sign of high pressure, BUT I have also has some of my subsonic loads stick teh same way, and there is no way that 10Gr of Trailboss is gonna make enough pressure to be too much |
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I know that it can be a sign of high pressure, BUT I have also has some of my subsonic loads stick teh same way, and there is no way that 10Gr of Trailboss is gonna make enough pressure to be too much Quoted:
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rounds chamber just fine, sticky extraction after I have shot That is a sign of high pressure! Have you checked your Max OAL for the bullets you are using? Like I said earlier, Savage has some 308 Win with almost no throat. If your bullets are contacting the lands then you are going to have high pressure issues. There are several ways to check Max OAL here is one. http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=97328&highlight=coal I know that it can be a sign of high pressure, BUT I have also has some of my subsonic loads stick teh same way, and there is no way that 10Gr of Trailboss is gonna make enough pressure to be too much Stop guessing and check your max OAL. |
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Stop guessing and check your max OAL. I have done what is shown in the link before I was not able to seat my 168Gr Hornadys to 2.800 so I backed them off to 2.795 I guess it is possible that I should of went to like 2.785 or 2.770 My last batch of rounds have been using 150Gr Hornady Sps They have almost no bearing surface sticking out of the neck So if teh throat is really that short, it is Too short IMHO |
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I have done what is shown in the link before I was not able to seat my 168Gr Hornadys to 2.800 so I backed them off to 2.795 I guess it is possible that I should of went to like 2.785 or 2.770 My last batch of rounds have been using 150Gr Hornady Sps They have almost no bearing surface sticking out of the neck So if teh throat is really that short, it is Too short IMHO Quoted:
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Stop guessing and check your max OAL. I have done what is shown in the link before I was not able to seat my 168Gr Hornadys to 2.800 so I backed them off to 2.795 I guess it is possible that I should of went to like 2.785 or 2.770 My last batch of rounds have been using 150Gr Hornady Sps They have almost no bearing surface sticking out of the neck So if teh throat is really that short, it is Too short IMHO If 2.80 is your Max, with 2.795 you are only .005 off the lands, that close enough to cause pressure signs in my opinion. The Nosler link suggests your back off .015-.030 to start. Personally if I had a rifle that could not take ammo manufactured to SAAMI specs, I your fix it or bring it back to where I purchased it. |
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I zoomed in on your photo, you have a definite pair of rings in your chamber about a half inch back from the shoulder. I can't get an idea of the depth and wonder if that is the issue. I've seen worse. Looks exactly like spun metal chips during the reaming process.
I am quite suprised that you have issues loading to 2.80 in a factory chamber. That's good and bad. If you wanted to load to the throat, you can. I have remington throats where the bullet would be well beyond that to touch. An abrupt chamber throat could very easily cause some early onset of pressure signs. If it was my gun I would probably try polishing out SOME of that ring. Mostly just to reduce the lock effect. I wouldn't get carried away and try to polish it all out and end up making an egg shaped chamber. 
ETA- the necks are a bit sooty makes me GUESS that you're not really high in pressure. I would think they'd seal better if the pressure was high. Lots of variables to declare anything concrete of course. I'm guessing that grooving is deep enough to grab. |
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