Armory Sponsor
Posted: 7/7/2006 8:56:38 AM EDT
|
What do the Professionals Say? – Here is a review of the SpecOps by a State Trooper and Trainer. At his request, I have deleted the name of the large State agency he works for. This review can be shared with your customers: Dear Knoxx Industries, First off I would like to apologize for the lateness of this email. As you know I am still a working traffic Trooper, and thus my time in the office is very little. I would also like to thank you for your understanding during this T&E period. The past several month have seen a lot of change at the _HP, and __ DPS. I have been a firearms instructor with the _HP going on 7 years now. One of my least favorite responsibilities is training, and qualification with the department issued Remington 870 shotguns. I personally love the weapon system, but alas, my troopers hate it with a passion. Our problems with the 870 center around two main areas: 1. Recoil, and 2. Proper fit. Because of these two issues few troopers like the 870. So training and qualification is a non-stop bitch fest for most troopers. I have been on the look out for ways to fix those two aforementioned problems. Our department issue shotguns have a hodge-podge mix of factory stocks, and Speedfeed stocks. These two options are the only way we can try to make guns fit troopers. Then I met you at the 2005 Shot Show. You showed me one of the prototypes of the SpecOps stock. I thought this might be an answer to “our” shotgun problems. You explained all the features and the fact that it (SpecOps Stock) would reduce felt recoil approximately 70%. I was extremely skeptical about this claim, but I wanted to try one out nonetheless. I received the stock and was impressed with the quality. I installed it on one of our spare 870's. It installed quickly and easily. It was rock solid. I grabbed a case (200 rounds) of rifled slugs and left for the range. I then loaded and fired seven slugs as fast as I could work the slide. I was like, “Ok, it still kicks pretty good.” Then I remembered you telling me to shoot a regular 870 for comparison. I did so. That is when the light bulb went on for me. I then proceeded to fire the rest of the case through the 870 with the SpecOps stock. I also let a fellow instructor test drive it as well. We liked it so much we put four cases of “00” Buck and Slugs through it. I was no longer a skeptic. What became very apparent to me was that the recoil characteristics of the 870 changed, reduced recoil and muzzle flip. Once I got a solid handle on this change I was able to make headshots on a standard FBI Q target at 15 yards a lot faster than with my 870 equipped with a Speedfeed stock. I am now to the point where I can do this almost as fast as I can work the action. I can make center of mass hits just as fast at 25 yards too. I handed the 870 with the SpecOps stock to some of our troopers in _____ to test out. Most were immediately impressed or converted after firing their own gun. I was scheduled to run shotgun qualification for ___ DPS in _______ City. I was very much looking forward to this for many reasons. Chiefly command staff was going to be present. I knew when command staff fired the 870 with the SpecOps stock, we could get some ordered. Also I knew some of our weaker shooters were going to qualify without the headache. At the last minute I was re-tasked to Field Train a new Trooper. So I gave the shotgun with the SpecOps stock to the guy taking my place. I explained the proper use of the stock, and the precautions. He made sure the correct people put rounds down range with the SpecOps 870. All were impressed. At least 15 of our officers stated they were going to purchase this themselves. Command Staff was impressed as well. Hopefully we will be ordering SpecOps stocks with the next budget. There is one example that I would like to share about your stock. First let me set a little background. I have a female officer that is plagued with problems with the 870. She is a veteran trooper with more then 15 years experience. She is haunted by a good many old injuries. She failed to qualify with her 870. I went through the standard remedial training on the fundamentals. I then handed her the 870 with the SpecOps, adjusted it for the proper size. Explained how it worked. The trooper opted to immediately re-qualify instead of a warm up and re-qualify. She fired a 90%. The look on her face when I told her the score was priceless. She has advised me that she placed an order for a SpecOps stock. In closing I am keeping the SpecOps stock, and have installed it on my issue 870. Just let me know how much I owe you!! Also our PIO has yet to get back to me on the issue of allowing the _HP, __ DPS to be used. You can use my name alone if you wish. I will stand by your product proudly. Thank you again, Trp. James Steele Couldn't say it any better myself. CaCrusin 
|
|
well.. i think _hp and _dps are a bunch of pussies if they cant shoot a 870. i go duck hunting damn near daily and see dozens of 12-13 year olds blasting away with 3 inch magnums and they have smiles on their faces. thats just sad... maybe the shooters should have johnson and the bitch fest would cease.. OOOhhhhhh did i say that.. |
|
|
I've got a spec-ops on my FN (POS), and can honestly say I like it. If the firearm wasn't such a POS, I'd fire it more....well, and if 12GA shells weren't so damn expensive. I'm not a big guy, but before the SpecOps I would be lucky to shoot more than 20 rounds before being "Done", especially when using 3" shells. Now, after the SpecOps, I went through a 100 pack of 2 3/4" #8, plus about 25 rounds of 3" buck, and 25 rounds of 3" slugs, not to mention another 25 rounds of "Tactical" buckshot. My shoulder didn't hurt either.... So, you can be a "Tough Guy" all you freaking want, but I'll stick with my SpecOps. 
|
|
Please shoot a shotgun that has too long a lenght of pull for you. Tell me how that feels. Most LE people are not shooters -esp shotgun shooters. Personnally if I can buy a piece of equipment that makes shooting more pleasant (less recoil) I will- I guess that makes me a pussy too. But than again I never arrested a crack head duck |
|
i find it hard to believe that any MAN or WOMAN..wearing a policemans uniform can shoot a qualification course without bitching and moaning. granted..i'll be the first to admit that the normal count for qualification shooting isnt a walk in the park.. but its not supposed too. do they bitch about martial arts and hand to hand training? do they bitch and moan about running the 14 minute 2 mile run.. every boy i have ever known has grown up shooting a shotgun that wasnt fitted proper. myself included. todays low recoil LEO loads should be all they need. if they cant handle the firearms, they should wear the badge.. For the record for those who think its pure bravado..i hate recoil.. i do shoot alot of big guns..i'm 5'10- 215.. i thought shooting guns was fun...even 100 rd of slugs.. |
|
It's a little hard to follow you there Muddydog. CaCrusin www.knoxx.com |
| You are an absolute moron... No internet fighting here because you are showing how utterly stupid and disrespectful you are on your own. I love my SpecOps and the recoil reduction that it offers but if I was 30-40 pounds overweight like yourself I may not need it. Now mabe I am being an A*Hole but when you rag on fellow officers you deserve it jackass. |
| Muddydogare you a cop? Have you ever shot a police qualifyer?? Do you know if _hp even uses low recoil slugs?? My agency makes us use 2 3/4 maximum slugs. They do hurt when yor fire a bunch. Our standard qualifyer is 20 slugs, plus what ever else they want to throw in. Last qualifier we got to train by shooting an additional 30 slugs besides the buck shot. I do have an shoulder and neck injury that made me almost quit my career. I switched years ago to the compstock. Anything that makes my job easier is a god send and it did. My current setup uses a specop, ported barrel, and fiberoptic sights(these eyes are getting old). Last year was the first time I have shot 100 on the shotgun course in years. All who have shot it love it. no if Knox would just lower the price on their butstock shell holder....... |
|
If some of you do not know who CaCrusin is, do your research. He is one of the most intelligent, customer service oriented person I have met here on AR15. Very respected gentleman, who represents a product that truly works. I have a Spec-Ops, if I own any other shotgun, it will have his products on it also. So dont go shitting in his post about the little "nancy" details found in the letter. If you do not own one, shut up and go shoot one. Then save $100 because you'll buy one very soon. Take the email for what it is worth, store it away in that brain housing group, as small or as cramped as it may be... |
| This whole bravado thing that "I'm too tough to need recoil reduction", is silly in my opinion. It has nothing to do with if you can take the punishment or not. Why would you put yourself through it if you didn't have to? There may be other reasons why you wouldn't want it (don't like pistol grip stocks, mossberg owner, whatever), but not wanting recoil reduction just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It reminds me of when I was 12 and we used to see who could take the most raps on the knucles with a ruler. If nothing else, it affords you faster follow-up shots. |
I am humbled. CaCrusin
|
|
dedfella: You won't be dissapointed. However, just be aware that because there are springs and what not, I found that the stock did get better over time due to break-in. When you use it for the first time, it won't seem like that big of a difference. If you can, compare it to a stock stock. You will notice then. |
|
Ok. SpecOps came in yesterday. Went straight home after work and opened the package. Neatly packaged by the guys at Knoxx. They even went ahead and put the slip on rubber grip pad on the pistol grip prior to shipping. I also ordered the ball wrench from them for attaching the stock. Very simple straightforward instructions. I put the stock on a Mossberg 500A with 18.5" cyl bore barrel. Composite foregrip. Previous sessions with this gun included shooting field loads, 2 3/4 slugs and 3" magnum 00 buck. The field loads weren't that bad at all, the slugs were peppy and the 00 magnum loads were downright painful. In 5 minutes I had the Knoxx snugged up and ready to go. Grabbed 2 boxes of field loads, 2 5 rd boxes of the dreaded magnum 00, 2 5 rd boxes of Hornady Tap buckshot and a box of 2 3/4 slugs. I use large triple wall cardboard boxes from work for target stands. I set 3 of these up and went to work. Loaded 5 field loads and fired them slow just to get a feel for how the gun would handle with the new stock. With the field loads slow fire I couldn't tell a lot of difference. It did seem that there was no sharp impulse, just a push. Loaded 5 more field loads and went to rapid fire. I could immediately tell that my ability to rapid fire holding the gun on target was improved. Muzzle tendency to rise seemed to be dampened. 5 rounds of 2 3/4 slugs next. Honestly no BS they felt no different than the field loads. As I said earlier, out of this gun with factory stock these felt pretty peppy. Not so with the Knoxx. 5 more rapid fire kept all 5 in 12 " circle. Now for the kicker (pun intended). Loaded 1 round of the 3" magnum buckshot. I vowed if it hurt anywhere near as bad as it did earlier to never put another of these in the gun. Pulled the trigger. Cool. There was recoil mind you but not painful slapped in the side of the head recoil. Just a good stout push. Loaded 5 more and shot them at a moderate pace. You know you are shooting but as I said before there is no sharp impulse feeling. I am not any kind of LEO or ex-military or anything like that. This is my first experience building a "HD/Tactical" shotgun. All of my shotguns to this point have been hunting or skeet guns. I hesitated to post this pseudo-review in the same thread with a LEO review because I am not really qualified. I will tell you that the Knoxx really tamed a hard kicking shotgun (with slugs and 00 buck). I fired 75 rds through it in a very short period of time yesterday and literally can't tell it this morning. You can't really always tell the difference on all loads, it is really the absence of the sharpness and the change from a pop to a push. The adjustable nature of this stock is nice too. The overall feel, fit and finish of the Knoxx stock is great. They were a little slow in shipping but I can excuse that because I can easily imagine many orders for this thing coming in. I would recommend this stock to anyone who wants to make their shotgun more fun to shoot. All above is based on my experience and YMMV. thanks |
Armory Sponsor