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Posted: 8/22/2010 10:06:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2010 11:57:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: prebans] [#1]
I'd like to give one clarification on the Form 10 topic.  I said to never use a Form 10 for anything.  This means you.  It's fine for a museum, PD, etc., to use one after all other avenues are exhausted.  

Just thought it might be a little confusing the way it's written above.

Mike
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 12:32:56 PM EST
[#2]
Maybe I should point out that the reason why you have an attorney contact the ATF for you is b/c you'll be insulated by the Attorney-Client privilege.  If you call the ATF yourself & is it not found on the registry you just admitted to them you have contraband & could be in deep shit.  If the Attorney asks & the ATF tells him is it contraband and then asks who's gun it is the Attorney tells the ATF to piss off.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:18:55 PM EST
[#3]
Thanks
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:23:36 PM EST
[#4]
good post thanks. One other thing that I have read in small arms reveiw to do that will eleminate a lot of head ach is to have the form 5's already prepaired and to let someone like your executor know where they are. this will make things much easier for the berieved family member who they are being willed to to deal with quickly.
Link Posted: 10/5/2010 10:23:38 AM EST
[#5]
Link Posted: 12/23/2010 2:10:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: Crito] [#6]
good post.   I say a good post, because that’s a situation when you need a lawyer.

I wish all the families good luck.

If they cannot make it legal.  They can destroy the receiver, but they can rebuild the gun on a new semi-auto/legal receiver and still keep some of the family history.


Link Posted: 5/14/2012 11:25:55 AM EST
[#7]
so basically if you can't find the paper work, your just EFF'd and have to destroy it?
Link Posted: 5/14/2012 11:55:28 AM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/14/2012 7:38:48 PM EST
[#9]
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By SidewinderCustoms:
so basically if you can't find the paper work, your just EFF'd and have to destroy it?

If the reason that there's no paperwork is that it was never registered, then yes, you must destroy it.

The exception to that rule is that if it was a war bring back with war trophy paperwork signed by the commanding officer. In these cases, even though it is not in the Registry, ATF has in several instances been pursuaded that the signed trophy paperwork constitutes legal permission from the U.S. government to possess the item, and thus should be added to the Registry. This requires hiring a very good attorney, and works only if the present owner is the vet who brought it back, or his direct heirs.

HTH.


Is the crime of possession of an unregistered machine gun erased and nullified once the receiver is destroyed?
Link Posted: 5/14/2012 8:35:24 PM EST
[#10]
Link Posted: 3/13/2013 2:28:51 PM EST
[#11]
I never bothered to read this thread before,  but I'd add to Tony's statement of stamped/non-stamped NFA/MG's.       If the deceased owner was a LEO prior to the '68 act his gun can also be legitimate less any stamp.   All one needed if a LEO prior to the '68 act was his CLEO's approval to register a MG tax/stamp free.   The registration forms were signed, entered into the registry and a copy returned to the registered owner.

Amnesty registrations are also stampless and I'd assume the the original stuff from '34 would be too.    My amnesty registered MP40 carried no stamp, the M/2 carbine I still hold was registered on my CLEO's approval and bears no stamp...........just Harold Serr's signature.
Link Posted: 3/13/2013 2:39:32 PM EST
[#12]
Wish I could find something to have to go through the trouble for.
Link Posted: 6/27/2013 11:10:55 AM EST
[#13]
It has been nearly 3 years since I wrote that post.  Here are a few updates I'd like to incorporate:

1.  I helped a very grateful family find their missing paperwork on a M1A1 Thompson SMG and another party called me about finding paperwork for a M14.  In both cases, the paperwork was rolled up inside the buttstock oiler hole!  Be sure to pay close attention to the firearm itself- some owners put the paperwork IN the firearm to keep it safe and always present with the firearm!

2.  ATF must have done some policy changes recently, as I've encountered problems seeking information on behalf of family members with unknown firearms.  At this point, I'm going to adjust my recommendations AFTER a complete paperwork search comes up empty to ALWAYS involving a firearms-friendly attorney to check with the Feds.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/26/2013 7:18:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: teeli] [#14]
edit: called a local NFA knowledgeable attorney. this is going to be a pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 12/24/2013 9:31:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: simorealy3] [#15]
When you need help you will find that it is really good post.
Link Posted: 1/24/2014 5:15:58 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By teeli:
edit: called a local NFA knowledgeable attorney. this is going to be a pain in the ass.
View Quote



ya you should have just ( if your the one that found something in the atic ) kept your mouth shut and enjoyed your "freedom" lol
Link Posted: 2/7/2014 3:00:25 AM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usp45aac:



ya you should have just ( if your the one that found something in the atic ) kept your mouth shut and enjoyed your "freedom" lol
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usp45aac:
Originally Posted By teeli:
edit: called a local NFA knowledgeable attorney. this is going to be a pain in the ass.



ya you should have just ( if your the one that found something in the atic ) kept your mouth shut and enjoyed your "freedom" lol


Except the aforementioned hypotheticaly could have been already in the registry, and fully transferable, and to transfer what may or may not have been found in an attic,
would cost nothing on a form 5, and be expedited at that (as form 5's normally are). Therefore being in possession of unregistered NFA items is out, because they would
be in the registry. And, hypothetically speaking, unlawful transfer is out, since the transferor is the one on the chopping block, and hypothetically speaking,
the aforementioned hypothetical NFA items would all have been found posthumously in the wake of the original possessor.
Link Posted: 3/6/2014 3:59:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: tony_k] [#18]
Link Posted: 3/18/2015 9:23:12 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:
By request, here are pdfs of some historical forms, to give you an idea what to look for when going through estate papers:

Original 1934 registration form.

Original 1938 form

1961 Form 1

1965 Form 1

pre-Form 5 from 1969

And just for fun: 1946 Notice to Returning Veterans
View Quote



Amazing!
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 7:57:03 PM EST
[#20]
In your experience what percentage of "attic guns" have been registered and are legal to own?  
     What do you think are the most common reasons for unregistered guns?  Owner ignorance?  Govt distrust?
Link Posted: 10/5/2015 4:05:44 PM EST
[#21]
Link Posted: 12/9/2015 9:33:53 PM EST
[#22]
This is very interesting.  Thank you for sharing.  It would be neat to put some of those documents you link in a frame on the wall.
Link Posted: 10/6/2016 3:24:47 PM EST
[#23]
Is the process relatively the same these days? I know previously something changed and the steps were slightly modified.
Link Posted: 10/29/2016 5:00:32 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:
By request, here are pdfs of some historical forms, to give you an idea what to look for when going through estate papers:

Original 1934 registration form.

Original 1938 form

1961 Form 1

1965 Form 1

pre-Form 5 from 1969

And just for fun: 1946 Notice to Returning Veterans
View Quote


Thanks those are helpful.

Are C&R papers any different?

Also, what do Amnesty papers look like?
Link Posted: 7/11/2017 12:27:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: jonblack] [#25]
Double tap
Link Posted: 9/23/2017 9:03:53 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tony_k:

Korea and Vietnam bring backs are all duffle bag guns: U.S. military policy since WWII has been to prohibit trophy capture guns from being returned to the U.S.
View Quote
Not true- the last legally registered (i.e. capture papers) brought back weapons from a conflict was Grenada in 1983. No NFA items were allowed and they distributed them by lottery.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/The-Grenada-Weapons-Stockpile.html
Link Posted: 9/24/2017 7:40:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: tony_k] [#27]
Link Posted: 12/6/2017 2:12:56 PM EST
[#28]
So what I understand is if the ww2 dewat has capture papers it can be added to the NFA and be transferable?
Link Posted: 12/6/2017 3:41:17 PM EST
[#29]
Link Posted: 1/14/2018 4:53:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: BigWaylon] [#30]
Mod edit...comment added nothing of value to the sticky
Link Posted: 1/14/2018 4:54:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: BigWaylon] [#31]
Mod edit...comment added nothing of value to the sticky
Link Posted: 9/8/2019 3:08:04 PM EST
[#32]
Tag
Link Posted: 9/23/2019 8:59:13 AM EST
[#33]
I have another “what if”, if it’s allowed.

I was asked this question by a friend who found an item at a yard sale.

He believes it is a suppressor. He describes it as blued, cylindrical with holes at both ends and completely through it. There were no threads on the end to screw onto the end of a barrel, but a mechanism on one end that seems like it would tighten if twisted around a barrel.

There were markings that said “Maxim” on it.

My thoughts is he stumbled onto a very old Maxim suppressor with an attachment system like I’ve seen in old gangster movies. They would slip it over the barrel and with a simple quick twist it’s held in place.

If this is in fact an old, old, suppressor (and not registered), can it be registered somehow? I know about the NFA change in 1986 that applied to new manufacture machine guns, but does it also apply to non papered suppressors?
Link Posted: 10/4/2019 4:10:13 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Firecop203:
I have another “what if”, if it’s allowed.

I was asked this question by a friend who found an item at a yard sale.

He believes it is a suppressor. He describes it as blued, cylindrical with holes at both ends and completely through it. There were no threads on the end to screw onto the end of a barrel, but a mechanism on one end that seems like it would tighten if twisted around a barrel.

There were markings that said “Maxim” on it.

My thoughts is he stumbled onto a very old Maxim suppressor with an attachment system like I’ve seen in old gangster movies. They would slip it over the barrel and with a simple quick twist it’s held in place.

If this is in fact an old, old, suppressor (and not registered), can it be registered somehow? I know about the NFA change in 1986 that applied to new manufacture machine guns, but does it also apply to non papered suppressors?
View Quote
Should probably consult an NFA attorney and explore legal options for taking possession of the can.  Could end up being one of the worst functioning, but most valuable suppressors out there
Link Posted: 10/4/2019 4:50:20 PM EST
[#35]
Good to know
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 8:49:45 PM EST
[#36]
So, what would the process be to donate an item to a museum?  No, I haven’t found an item, but I do volunteer some time at a local military museum.  We get Title 1 items on an irregular basis.  I imagine it’s only a matter of time before an honest to God duffle bag gun walks through the door.

Ka
Link Posted: 11/2/2020 3:27:03 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kingairpilot:
So, what would the process be to donate an item to a museum?  No, I haven't found an item, but I do volunteer some time at a local military museum.  We get Title 1 items on an irregular basis.  I imagine it's only a matter of time before an honest to God duffle bag gun walks through the door.

Ka
View Quote
If it's a government museum (any level... federal, state, county, municipal) and you're sure there's no existing registration (or if the current owner doesn't care) then the museum can register it to themselves on Form 10.

(I'd still make sure because the museum might want to sell it later, and if it goes Form 10 then they cannot.)

If there is valid registration, it would transfer on Form 5 (tax-exempt).

If the museum isn't a government entity then there's no option to do this.

A law enforcement agency would use the same procedure.
Link Posted: 11/24/2020 6:29:23 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Maybe I should point out that the reason why you have an attorney contact the ATF for you is b/c you'll be insulated by the Attorney-Client privilege.  If you call the ATF yourself & is it not found on the registry you just admitted to them you have contraband & could be in deep shit.  If the Attorney asks & the ATF tells him is it contraband and then asks who's gun it is the Attorney tells the ATF to piss off.
View Quote


This is one of the reasons for using an attorney as in intermediary for a whole lot of things.
Like negotiations with the IRS.

He cannot be compelled to reveal your identity.
I had an employer that did not handle tax withholding correctly for around 30 years.
Field Service Representatives that lived year round in Foreign Countries can end up in funny circumstances.

There are no SOFA (Statement Of Forces Agreement) with some countries.
Like Great Britain.
You pay taxes to the crown if you work there for the US Government on a US military base.

When the mess exploded at the IRS in the USA the company hired a law firm to negotiate a settlement with the IRS.
Some Field Service Guys ended up owing many tens of thousands of dollars to the Crown.

The company could not even reimburse them without adding US taxes onto their income.
Paying a persons tax bill for them is considered income.
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