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Posted: 1/19/2002 6:33:35 PM EDT
I just went to the gunstore to help my friend find a pistol and they have a NIB stainless Beretta with the Brigader (reinforced?) slide and a really nice grip for 600$. I was told they were more accurate (i am a bad shot with the glock). Any pro's and cons to the two?

What about this US made vs. Italian made issue?

I can't have them both unfortunately.

Thanks for the input..
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 6:37:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 6:42:11 PM EDT
"I was told they were more accurate (i am a bad shot with the glock)."

If you're a better shot with the Beretta, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. If accuracy is a wash, then I'd stay with the Glock because you'll take a pretty good hit in the wallet if you sell it as a used gun or (even worse) trade it in at the dealer (if he even takes trades).
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 6:56:08 PM EDT
I am a Glock aficionado, that being said, I generally prefer Glocks to other combat/defensive weapons when comparing apples to apples so to speak.

The Beretta is a very nice weapon and they fire and function very nicely in my experience. As to the Beretta being inherently more accurate; that depends solely on you IMO.

Sure, some weapons are more accurate than others and since you say that you are not accurate with your Glock then the Beretta may be for you.

Don't be fooled into thinking though that it will necessarily be true for you just because the Beretta may carry that distinction.

For me, no weapon is as accurate as a Glock. That opinion comes from extensive experience with a 17, 21, 23c and a 27.

I think the Glock will serve you better, last longer and be more reliable though in the long run.

Dontcha' just hate these predicaments?
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 8:20:15 PM EDT
I've owned a number of Glocks and Beretta's, and I'd say you should probably find a place to rent a Beretta and shoot it before you make the trade. If I had a choice between a Glock 23 and a Beretta 92, I'd take the Beretta. However, it is a bigger gun and therefore somewhat harder to conceal. The Glock is easier to repair, but neither is prone to excessive breakage. You might find that you shoot the Beretta much better, in which case you should probably make the trade. Bottom line, they are both great guns and will give you good service.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 9:51:44 PM EDT
I have a Glock 23 and a Beretta 96 Brigadier INOX.
I have had the latter for a little over a year and have only shot it once.

It is a smooth, well made gun.
I just couldn't get any consistent groups with it.
My Glock on the other hand has given me pretty good accuracy.
In all fairness though I should put a lot more rounds through the Beretta and see if I can improve my patterns.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:00:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2002 10:05:25 PM EDT by imposter]
I have found Berettas to be reliable and they feel nice in the hand, but the DA trigger is an abomination. I tried to get an accurate read with a trigger pull scale, but it was off the chart. Your first shot is the most important, and with the Beretta you might as well throw that one away.

I find the pistols equally accurate (other than the first shot, which of course is where the Glock shines).

The Glock is lighter, shorter, has better capacity, is more streamlined for drawing, and is easier to conceal. The only advantages I see to the Beretta is that it is a handsome piece and you can occassionally find hi-caps for cheap.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:40:38 PM EDT
thee12nv - maybe I can help - I have a Glock and 2 Berettas - one Italian one US.

First - rent before you buy.

Second - accuracy - yeah a 92 is probably a smidge more accurate if you are going to sit and shoot from a rest - are you? I didn't think so - so it is a moot point.

Brig model - yes it is beefed up. It is also heavy. The best 92 to have - hands down - is the Elite II. The E2 has no safety and a GREAT double action trigger. It is also real spendy. All Berettas are heavy. The 92 is bigger than the 23. High caps for the 23 are 3x the price of high caps for the Beretta. I dont think that the Brig has a dove tailed front sight - thus your stuck with it. An E2 has a dovetailed front sight. A Brig will does not have an acessory rail either. You may want to check out the new Vertec if you want an acessory rail. Lastly - a 92 is a 9mm (96 is .40)

US vs Italian - they shoot the same. The US is frought with maching tooling markings, sharp edges, and poor bluing (in comparison to the Italian models)

Like I said - rent it first.

FWIW - I compete with my E2 but I dont carry a Beretta - ever.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:53:58 PM EDT
R U nutz? I would *never* trade a great pistol like a Glock for one of those bricks they call a Beretta 92.

Seriously though, if it works better for *you* then do the trade. Personally, I find them to be a big clunk of a gun and I don't menace beer cans nearly as effectively with a Beretta as with just about any other good handgun.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 10:55:42 PM EDT
It's gonna depend on what you like better when you get down to it.

For me, Beretta's just don't fit my hand well...
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 11:18:16 PM EDT
Have had both.

Now, only have the Glock of the two.

The stainless 92 is made in Italy, unlike the Blue which is made here. (at least this was the case the last time I checked--a few years ago)

The stainless, mine and another I shot with, is prone to ejection problems and stovepiping. That is my warning. That is why I loosed it.

But.... in the end its your call.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 6:49:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 7:08:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SIX:
I dont think that the Brig has a dove tailed front sight - thus your stuck with it.



My Brigadier 96 INOX has a dovetailed front sight.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 7:23:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 7:27:22 AM EDT
I have a Beretta 96 Brigadier Inox (.40 S&W). I like it better than the Glock 22 that I used to own. It has a heavier slide and a removeable front sight. $600 is what I paid for mine last year at the cheapest shop in my area, so the price is good. Are you sure that it is a 92 and not a 96? I have never heard of a 92 Brigadier.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 8:46:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:40:09 AM EDT
A couple of things from somebody who traded his Glock 23 for a Beretta 92FS and hasn't looked back:

If you find that the Beretta is too large in the grip area for you, they just released a new Vertec that is the basic 92FS or 96FS but it has been modified to have:

- A MUCH smaller grip. The panels are much thinner and the backstrap has been reduced so it is much easier to hold.
- A trigger with shorter reach.
- An accessory rail has been added to the front that is compatible with the Glock accessory rail and, unlike the Glock the Vertec is still reliable even if you attach something to the rail.
- A redesigned slide that has a dovetailed front sight so that it is easier to change the sights or install night sights.


If you don't like the trigger pull on your Beretta, there's two ways to improve it. You can replace the mainspring with the spring that is used in the Double-Action Only Berettas. That alone will reduce the double action pull from around 12 pounds to about 8 pounds and will reduce the single action pull by a pound or two. Or you can send it to www.langdontactical.com and have Ernest do a trigger job on it. He replaces the mainspring as I said above and smooths and polishes all the surfaces so that the trigger is much nicer. It makes a big difference in the trigger. Ernest also sells the lighter factory mainspring if you just want to do that and he also has some different hammer designs and other cool parts for the Berettas.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Are you sure that it is a 92 and not a 96? I have never heard of a 92 Brigadier.



Beretta makes plenty of 92 Brigadiers. The shop I always go to keeps a large supply of Berettas in stock and I've been drooling over them for months. I was about to give in and buy a 92 Elite but then the Vertec came out and now I can't make up my mind which to get.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
I was about to give in and buy a 92 Elite but then the Vertec came out and now I can't make up my mind which to get.




Hop - unless you need the smaller grip - get the E2.

The Vertec has some cool features but it is not a G model. It does not have the D mod spring set either.

From what I understand there is a Vetec / E1 crossed model that is or is comming out soon - you may wanna check it out.

I like my new E2 (bought from a fellow AR15er - thank you very much). I am really looking forward to next months local IDPA match.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:40:10 AM EDT


Dontcha' just hate these predicaments?



Isn't that the truth.

Couple of things.
I don't carry concealed co the size realy doesn't matter. Mostly concerned with reliability of the beretta.

The trigger pull is that bad on the first round huh?

I have big hands so the grip is ver nice. I will call around to see if I can rent one here.. good idea.
Are the eagle 17rd mags for the beretta any good?
Which are good and which are not?
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 10:46:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 8:44:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SIX:Hop - unless you need the smaller grip - get the E2.

The Vertec has some cool features but it is not a G model.



As much as I like the Elite and Elite II pistols, I already have holsters for my regular FS model and the Vertec fits in them fine while the heavier brigadier slide doesn't. So getting an Elite means also having to buy new holsters. Also, the Elite doesn't have the accessory rail and I'd like to have a light on the nightstand gun.



It does not have the D mod spring set either.



It will after Ernest gets done with it. :)



From what I understand there is a Vetec / E1 crossed model that is or is comming out soon - you may wanna check it out.



Yeah, I've been talking to Todd about the Elite 1A that he recently announced on the Beretta list. I'll take a look at it when it comes out since it adds the rail for the light. It would still mean getting new holsters but we'll see.
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 9:05:57 PM EDT
Sounds good to me.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 12:12:37 PM EDT
I have a 92fs in inox that I like very much. I have only brought it to the range once but I really enjoyed shooting it. The DA first shot didn't bother me. It seems similar to my Ruger P89. I have a few of the Eagle 17 round mags. They have worked fine so far except one failed to lock open on the last shot. I have some used factory hi caps that I haven't tested yet.
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 4:08:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2002 5:49:26 PM EDT
No, No, No, No, No. For God's sake, don't sell the Glock. No, No, No, No. Big mistake, bad, very, very bad. You will regret it - I guarantee it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 12:18:15 AM EDT
Keep the Glock. Save and get the B if you want. The Glock will prove to be the best carry. Not sure how many rounds you have thru the G23. Most Glocks seem to shoot better after a good break in. Spend some time shooting and watch what you're doing. My G23 shoots better, no, I shoot my 23 better than the G22.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 11:47:35 AM EDT
There is "intrinsic" accuracy...how close together the pistol will group shots (a simplified explanation, but close enough)...and "practical" accuracy...how well the pistol shoots for you.

A weapon can be extremely "accurate" in the intrinsic sense, but if it has crappy sights, a terrible trigger action, etc. it will not be capable of good performance in the hands of the shooter.

The guys who say rent/borrow before you buy are correct. Ditto for those who say to try the 3 1/2lb. connector and/or different sights. My guess is that you...like almost all of us...need to work more on trigger control.

Trigger control is, hands down, the MOST important fundamental for shooting a pistol well. MUCH more important than sight alignment. The Glock trigger action can be a little difficult to become accustomed to if this is your first one...not bad, just different.

For me, what works best with the Glock is to place a little more finger on the trigger and...for lack of a better word..."oooch" it off the sear, sort of like a double action revolver.

Remember, the bullet WILL go wherever the muzzle is pointed at the instant the bullet leaves the barrel...not where we had it pointed before we yanked the trigger through the last half of the pull. No slam on you, but it is amazing just how many shooters do this without realizing it.

There is also not one thing wrong with the Beretta you seem to like. Beretta builds one Hell of a good gun too.

If this was me, I'd keep the Glock and save to buy the Beretta later.
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