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Posted: 7/30/2004 2:55:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2004 9:16:53 AM EST by banthony1]
Fulton Armory www.fulton-armory is selling what they call a Sage Tactical Stock. Does anyone have a review of this stock/rail system?





Can anyone compare this stock setup with the Troy SOPMOD M14 or the Sparrow M14cm4 Tactical Stock?



Link Posted: 8/1/2004 8:35:33 PM EST
Ummm...the link takes you back to M1/M1A thread....nothing specific.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 9:11:13 AM EST
Sorry about that. I'm having problems with the photo server

I've updated the posting, see if that is better.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 10:28:02 AM EST
just go to www.fulton-armory.com

it is on the front page, Does anyone have one?? I really would like to try it with my scout rifle.

also here it is in video m14ebr

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater2004

rtsp://rm001.infi.net:80/~atpco/realserver/04bw_sage_m14.rm

try these.
Link Posted: 8/3/2004 11:44:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2004 11:46:51 AM EST by scottinhawaii]
From what I've read only two people have come out and said they have the Troy Ind. SOPMOD and the Sage just came out so I doubt you will get a side by side indepth comparison. I believe the Troy Ind. SOPMOD was running about $2500.00 not including the Pre ban rifle you have to send them to hack up. I'm pretty sure the Sage is just a stock and hand guard so you could simply go back to your old set up if you wanted. I want to say that one of them has a specific MOA guarantee but I'm not certain. FWIW my knowledge of this topic is only that of what I've read.

Edit:

For information about the Sparrow M14cm4 Tactical Stock I would go to M14 Firing Line since the maker himself should be there.
Link Posted: 8/4/2004 4:54:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2004 2:31:15 PM EST by Artifex]
RANGE REPORT ADDED

I just purchased and installed a sage stock from Fulton Armory at Camp Perry.

I can't compare it to the Troy, because I've never handled the Troy version.



It is interesting to install, you have to remove the muzzle brake, gas system and op-rod guide from the barrel, then install the Sage Op-rod guide and reinstall your own gas system and flash-hider.

THe Sage op-rod guide is designed to fit into the stock specially and be held in place with 3 screws. The screws are different lengths and you need to make sure you install them in the right order, or they will lock up the op-rod. The barrel is free-floating after this point though. The handguard cap is replaced by a steel washer supplied with the stock. The handguard is removed and the new handguard, with full-length rail, is held to the forearm of the stock by 6 screws.

This stock is pretty cool looking, but it adds weight. The M-14 isn't exactly a light-weight to start with though.

The area behind the reciever, where the collapsible stock hardware is, seems a little rough, lots of welds, etc... but it is plenty sturdy.

The release for the collapsible stock is directly in the center of the stock, just behind the reciever. It is easiest to use the thumb of the trigger hand to depress the lever for collapsing, expanding or adjusting the stock, although you need to rest the front of the rifle on something because it is very awkward holding the rifle with one hand by the pistol grip while adjusting the butt with the other hand. (unless the rifle is pointing straight up or down, and in that case, gravity will expand or retract the stock for you.)

Fit and finish is more than acceptable, though the stock mechanism is a little rough, as I said.

My only real gripe about the stock is that the adjustable cheek rest (adjustable up and down) is attached to the rear of the stock and moves with it. So at full extension, using the cheekrest means about 8" of eye-relief for reciever mounted scopes and bare minimum about 13-inches for handguard mounted scopes. It would be great for red-dot or holographic sights...or perhaps pistol scopes.

The lowest position of the cheekrest is still a little too high to use the iron sights, although the cheekrest can easily be removed with some hex wrenches and this makes the stock a little more comfortable actually.

That's really my only problem with the function of this stock - for now. I'll let you know what I think after trying it out on the range.

RANGE REPORT:

Ok, fired 2 mags through my M-1A with zero FTE/FTF - which is typical for my early pre-ban springfield armory. In fact...in all the years of competition and practice with this rifle, I can't think of more than one or two occasions where I had problems with it, and one of those was my fault..anyway:

I wanted to be sure it functioned right after disassembling and re-assembling the barrel attachments, which I had never done before.

Accuracy... well, I shot it with open sights, and kept it on paper at 100 and in the black at 50, which is miserable for me, and for this rifle, (I was holding 10-ring with my AR tonight, so I know I was doing my job) but don't condemn the product yet, scope testing will be more indicative of what this stock system can do.

The problem: Couldn't get a good cheek weld low enough to see through the sights (if using the cheekrest) I could get low-enough on the stock rods, but it was still awkward. Recoil is a bear. The added weight helps, but the impact on the jaw or cheekbone, in either cheek position, is no joke!

Again, I really think a scope will help, but I intend to remove the cheekrest supplied with the stock and come up with something that fits me a little better, perhaps a quick-detach cheekrest that slips down between the stock rods.

The pistol grip - it's a little sharp where the checkering starts, but a hogue slip-over grip will fix that.

For the money....it looks cool to be sure, and the convenience of not having to glass-bed is nice, but at least for me, it's not very comfy for accurate shooting.



Link Posted: 8/5/2004 5:42:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2004 5:51:18 AM EST by banthony1]

Originally Posted By Artifex:
THe Sage op-rod guide is designed to fit into the stock specially and be held in place with 3 screws. The screws are different lengths and you need to make sure you install them in the right order, or they will lock up the op-rod.



Thanks for the report.

What type of barrel do you have on this weapon? Does the weapon have a standard USGI barrel with a standard USGI op-rod guide? Do you know if this stock can handle a heavy weight barrel? The op-rod guide on most heavy barrels is not a standard USGI op-rod guide.

Link Posted: 8/5/2004 8:19:28 AM EST
My M-1A is a "National Match" model with a Springfield Armory Match Barrel. It wasn't a "factory" National Match though, I bought it from my shooting coach, who mounted the NM barrel on it. I don't know if the op-rod is "stock" or not.

I put my Aimpoint Comp M on it last night when I got home from the range. That makes all the difference in the world sighting it...you don't have to mash down so hard on the stock.

Haven't shot it yet, but I suspect it will be a completely different experience.

Link Posted: 8/5/2004 10:28:08 PM EST
Fulton has these on sale right now at 20% off. The last is good until the 13th of August, IIRC.
Link Posted: 8/6/2004 1:36:32 AM EST
That's where I bought mine from, Fulton's setup at Camp Perry. With the 20% off, it still cost like 600 and some change. (by the time you tack on the handguard, side rails, plastic forearm grip....all things that are considered "accessories.")

Link Posted: 8/6/2004 5:56:06 AM EST
Yikes! I can buy a whole 'nother Chinese rifle for that kind of money.

It's still an awesome looking stock. I'll have to try to get one before the sale ends.
Link Posted: 8/6/2004 8:53:43 PM EST
Will it fit SA's SOCOM 16?
What kind of pistol grip is that, a modified AR15 grip? I think I'm gonna get it but I don't care for the pistol grip
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 11:35:37 AM EST
No, it's not a modified AR grip..actually, I don't care for it either, but I'm working on some modifications.

It should fit the SA socom 16...
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 11:38:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/8/2004 11:52:13 AM EST
Say Artifex, when you do, could you make one for me too? I just placed an order for one, I was thinking about modifying an AR grip to fit it
I will pay you for your time, material and shipping fees of course
Link Posted: 8/9/2004 5:14:58 AM EST
Will do. Not sure how I'm going to make it yet, thinking about using a nylon or ABS core with an epoxy texture. I'll post pics when I get one finished.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:37:56 AM EST
Ok, got to try it out at 100 yds with the comp M this weekend. I'm very happy with the results. Comfort is much improved with a scope as compared with iron sights.

Results downrange made me very happy.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:44:19 AM EST
Thanks for the range report.

So does that make the weapon an "scope only" rifle, or are the backup iron sights just difficult to use with this stock?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:46:39 AM EST
Thanks Artifex. I ordered one of these and plan on using a scope or dot. I'm mounting it on my pre-ban Bush Rifle with the Choat factory folder. So, It's got to be an improvement. It wil hopefully be i my hands next week.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 11:45:42 AM EST
one of these stocks sold on ebay with all options for $650.00 it was used.as new as they are it could not have been very old. he stated in the auction that it would not work with his luged rec.thats why it was for sale he ststed. but he had it mounted on an m1a for pics ??
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:46:11 AM EST
No, you can use the iron sights with this stock, you just have to mash your cheek down on one of the metal rods that make up the shoulder stock, as the cheekrest, even in its lowest position, is too high up - at least for me - to use the iron sights with.

This stock is at its best with a scope - a long eye-relief one preferably, to mount on the handguard rail. Adding a reciever scope mount adds even more weight, plus the scope, etc... this stock is kind of a mystery. I really like it...but I'm ashamed to admit that I think it's just because of its looks. [insert mall ninja smiley here]

The forearm makes it a good stock for precision shooting, but kind of heavy and long for CQB, the folding shoulder stock makes it nice and maneuverable for CQB, but doesn't enhance its performance for precision shooting.

Still...

On scopes. This stock begs for a scout-configuration rifle with the bush-length barrel and a red-dot.

I have the full-length barrel and will possibly try to mount some type of magnified scope on it in the near future, but my bank account has to recover first.

That E-bay price sounds about right...shipping would be killer though.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 4:58:22 PM EST
I ordered mine with bottom, left and right rails, all new for $528, they were running the special then. I have no tracking number or anything from Fulton though, just an order confirmation after I ordered it
My questions to them were also unanswered (PRIOR TO me buying the stock), I'm beginning to think their repuation in customer service may be well deserved.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:09:40 PM EST

I'll pass...

I'm into the kewl factor too, and can't think of anything kewler than an M1, or M1A, or M1A1 for that matter, in a handrubbed Wenig walnut stock...

So it needs a scope to shoot accurately? Kinda defeats the supposed design purpose, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 6:57:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I ordered mine with bottom, left and right rails, all new for $528, they were running the special then. I have no tracking number or anything from Fulton though, just an order confirmation after I ordered it
My questions to them were also unanswered (PRIOR TO me buying the stock), I'm beginning to think their repuation in customer service may be well deserved.




I ordered a Fulton Classic flatop UPPER last Friday. I got it in the mail today. I've never had trouble, and Walt and Clint are 2 of the best in customer service. I've never been left hanging by them.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:16:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 4:17:36 AM EST by Duffy]
I ordered mine on August 7th, I just called to find out what happened to it. They're out of stock, and may not have it for a month. I asked why they never emailed me to let me know, the reply was the guys were at Perry and just got back. I'll wait a another week, Clint may be a great guy but I never got to find out about it because he never returned my emails. This is a sore experience, I could have become a good customer.
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