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Posted: 11/12/2013 9:30:29 AM EDT
I've heard this is "do-able". Yes or no, anyone tried it? Can I safely shoot a 2.5" .410 shell with #7.5 birdshot through my Guide Gun? Just wondering... cuz every year during deer season, whilst I'm sitting in the woods with my Guide Gun in hand waiting for Mr. Mossyhorns to show himself, I see ruffed grouse prancing around. I do love to eat grouse, and shooting them is legal with a shouldered fired weapon (no handguns) loaded with birdshot (and my small game license, and the season is open til end of January). I thought I'd buy a box of 2.5" .410 birdshot, throw a few in my pocket, pop me some lunch.
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Posted: 11/12/2013 9:34:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I've heard this is "do-able". Yes or no, anyone tried it? Can I safely shoot a 2.5" .410 shell with #7.5 birdshot through my Guide Gun? Just wondering... cuz every year during deer season, whilst I'm sitting in the woods with my Guide Gun in hand waiting for Mr. Mossyhorns to show himself, I see ruffed grouse prancing around. I do love to eat grouse, and shooting them is legal with a shouldered fired weapon (no handguns) loaded with birdshot (and my small game license, and the season is open til end of January). I thought I'd buy a box of 2.5" .410 birdshot, throw a few in my pocket, pop me some lunch. I don't know about this one bro? Doesn't a rifle have rifling,and shot meant to be put down a smooth bore? It not, then school me why that it is that you think this might work out for you? 
btw.I know that winchester has a lever gun that indeed shoots shotshells but there again too has a smoth bore barrel also. Thanks, SAE |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 9:50:35 AM EDT
[#2]
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?15899-grouse-with-the-45-70
On a side note, I was told I could shoot 50 bmg out to my single shot 10g...I dont think I will try that...I think you will be safe though |
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Posted: 11/12/2013 10:14:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Apparantly it can be done - but the .410 rim diameter (0.524) is smaller than a .45-70 (0.608) so you may have extraction issues. There is some discussion of it here: .410 in a .45-70
I always thought the thing to do would be to just load up birdshot in a .45-70 case as if you were loading an all brass case. Felt base wad, birdshot, cover wad, glue. Since you have no choke you're useful range isn't going to be much - 10 yds maybe. Might be ok for snakes or grouse. |
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Posted: 11/13/2013 7:25:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know about this one bro? Doesn't a rifle have rifling,and shot meant to be put down a smooth bore? It not, then school me why that it is that you think this might work out for you?
btw.I know that winchester has a lever gun that indeed shoots shotshells but there again too has a smoth bore barrel also. Thanks, SAE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've heard this is "do-able". Yes or no, anyone tried it? Can I safely shoot a 2.5" .410 shell with #7.5 birdshot through my Guide Gun? Just wondering... cuz every year during deer season, whilst I'm sitting in the woods with my Guide Gun in hand waiting for Mr. Mossyhorns to show himself, I see ruffed grouse prancing around. I do love to eat grouse, and shooting them is legal with a shouldered fired weapon (no handguns) loaded with birdshot (and my small game license, and the season is open til end of January). I thought I'd buy a box of 2.5" .410 birdshot, throw a few in my pocket, pop me some lunch. I don't know about this one bro? Doesn't a rifle have rifling,and shot meant to be put down a smooth bore? It not, then school me why that it is that you think this might work out for you?
btw.I know that winchester has a lever gun that indeed shoots shotshells but there again too has a smoth bore barrel also. Thanks, SAE Taurus Judge has rifling too, that works at close range. That's where I got the idea. Factories load birdshot for .22, .44mag, .45 Colt. They work at very close range also (killed many a red squirrel with the .44mag version in a Super Blackhawk). A buddy hunts with a .44Mag Marlin lever gun. He's used .44Mag birdshot loads for the same purpose. So I thought, what about .410s in the .45-70? Not trying to make it into a hunting shotgun, just a shot or two. No choke, + rifling = no range. I don't own a .410, so I have no shells to try it. Because of the case diameter differances, looks like a bad idea unless I bring along a cleaning rod to extract the empty. 
I reload rifle, handgun, & shotgun, so I like the idea of loading up some "shotshells" in .45-70 cases. Gonna look into that  . Or... buy a NEF SnakeCharmer and tote it along.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 7:18:48 PM EDT
[#5]
The rifling in a Judge is cosmetic and meets the requirement for rifling in a handgun.
The right answer is to make up .45-70 shot shells. 1 ounce is 437.5 grains weight. Speer sells empty .45 caliber shot capsules for .45 Colt cartridges, so they'll be a little small in diameter, but more convenient than messing with cards. |
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Posted: 11/22/2013 4:47:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Interesting thing about firearms, most are marked by the manufacturer regarding the caliber/gauge to be fired in it. Seems like the sensible thing to do would be follow the advice of the folks that made it.
In other words, lots of thing are possible in this world. But not all things that are possible are a good idea. Oh, and .410 shotguns can be had relatively inexpensively for some of the single shots. |
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Posted: 11/22/2013 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#7]
I've been studying this problem a little and once I either buy or make some wads that will fit a .45-70 case I'm going to load some catridges for experiment. I plan to use a paper wrap inside the case instead of a cutdown .410 wad or any of that. I might buy some teflon sheet from Ballistic Products if I can't find something local that is also cheap.
The wrap should mitigate any donut holes caused by the rifling. I hope. |
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Posted: 11/23/2013 6:26:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Not to advocate such, but I had an uncle that "back in the day" used to shoot ducks off the Colorado River with a trapdoor Springfield using 410 ammo.... without ill effects (other than on the ducks). To give you an idea, a trapdoor Springfield was something less than $20 bucks then.
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Posted: 11/23/2013 9:12:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I am very interested in a definitive answer to this. Is it harmful to the rifling of the 45-70? forget about extraction as if it were a standard 45-70, will it be harmful to the gun in any way is what I wonder.
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Posted: 11/24/2013 5:04:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Lead shot can't hurt rifling beyond laying down deposits. No different than shooting lead bullets.
Rifling will deform the pellets on the outside of the column and that will cause unnecessary flyers, so we need to protect the shot. I don't know if the dispersion caused by the rifling can be reduced. I've never been impressed by .22 RF shot loads, they're pretty much useless farther than a couple of yards. Factory .44 Magnum shot loads put enough shot into a close target but I'm no fan of #12 shot for something that I want to kill. |
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Posted: 11/25/2013 6:01:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been studying this problem a little and once I either buy or make some wads that will fit a .45-70 case I'm going to load some catridges for experiment. I plan to use a paper wrap inside the case instead of a cutdown .410 wad or any of that. I might buy some teflon sheet from Ballistic Products if I can't find something local that is also cheap. The wrap should mitigate any donut holes caused by the rifling. I hope. I read an article years ago about loading snake shot pistol cartridges. They idea was to use two gas checks. The first under the shot to separate it from the powder. The second was used backwards to cap off the case keeping the shot in with a roll crimp. A 45-70 might have enough volume to require some card wads in the mix as well. |
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Posted: 11/26/2013 1:23:54 AM EDT
[#12]
My Co-Pilot handles single loaded .410 just fine, without extraction issues. I have only tried buckshot with it, but at 25-yds, it was a tight pattern.
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Posted: 11/26/2013 5:11:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Shot Capsules
I wonder could these be adapted for use: http://weckuptothees.blogspot.com/2010/08/45-acp-shotshell-handloads-for.html Just a few thousanths smaller in diameter . . . |
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Posted: 11/26/2013 8:41:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read an article years ago about loading snake shot pistol cartridges. They idea was to use two gas checks. The first under the shot to separate it from the powder. The second was used backwards to cap off the case keeping the shot in with a roll crimp. A 45-70 might have enough volume to require some card wads in the mix as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been studying this problem a little and once I either buy or make some wads that will fit a .45-70 case I'm going to load some catridges for experiment. I plan to use a paper wrap inside the case instead of a cutdown .410 wad or any of that. I might buy some teflon sheet from Ballistic Products if I can't find something local that is also cheap. The wrap should mitigate any donut holes caused by the rifling. I hope. I read an article years ago about loading snake shot pistol cartridges. They idea was to use two gas checks. The first under the shot to separate it from the powder. The second was used backwards to cap off the case keeping the shot in with a roll crimp. A 45-70 might have enough volume to require some card wads in the mix as well. Per this link it is the April 2005 issue of Handloader that has the article I am thinking of. |
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Posted: 11/26/2013 10:35:08 AM EDT
[#15]
You have the right idea just the wrong caliber. Get yourself a 444 Marlin. Then you can load 410 shells out of the 444 brass and they will work in your 410 and 444 Marlin. Just one more reason to NOT own a 45/70.
Cheaper then buying factory 410 ammo, let alone all the custom loads I can make. |
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Posted: 11/27/2013 1:43:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rifling in a Judge is cosmetic and meets the requirement for rifling in a handgun. The right answer is to make up .45-70 shot shells. 1 ounce is 437.5 grains weight. Speer sells empty .45 caliber shot capsules for .45 Colt cartridges, so they'll be a little small in diameter, but more convenient than messing with cards. Could you explain how their rifling spec does not measure up to other revolvers? I've shot smooth bores and the Judge certainly has typical handgun accuracy expected of revolvers. General question to the thread: What evidence is there that lead shot could possibly damage a steel barrel? Besides fouling, what real concern is there? |
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Posted: 11/27/2013 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#17]
A Judge has shallow 6 groove 12 inch pitch rifling. I guess it's good enough to stabilize .45 Colt bullets.
Box O Truth Tests |
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Posted: 11/27/2013 2:54:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Tag for later info when I'm not drinking
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