Bullet: Speer 0.311" 180gr Hot-Cor
Powder: 12.0gr REX-1
Case: PPU, short-sized to reduce working, and create a false neck to center in the chamber. 0.304" neck ID.
Primer: CCI 200
COAL: 2.98"

Hovering about 1 MOA for 10 shots, but with outliers on call.

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I've participated in a few Military Bolt Action Rifle  matches with a Garand and The Load Mod 2 , even "winning" most strings of fire, but last year I was invited to the Oklahoma state match where I would need a proper bolt action. A friend offered to let me borrow his Mosin Nagant that he wasn't satisfied with. I doubted it would shoot great, but wanted it to shoot expectedly  (group not pattern). The first thing I did was clean, inspect, and reassemble with ammo box cardboard shims at the front and rear of the action and tip of the stock to center the barrel in the channel. The bore was... not promising. I'm not sure if a conscript or this college kid did more damage by negligence and abuse .

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I scrubbed the bore with dozens of patches soaked with Hoppe's #9 and JB bore paste on a brush. It went from dark to frosty. A couple days later it darkened again, so I scrubbed again. The bore slugged at 0.303" x 0.315". I ordered some PPU brass and Missouri Bullets 167gr Russian  bullets. Using The Load of 13gr Red Dot, I saw abysmal performance at 25 and 100yds, with or without bayonet. I fired some light ball to see if the barrel was that screwed, but it grouped as expected, almost respectably. I figured the Missouri bullets were too soft or the bore was too rough for the coating. Bore is scrubbed again and looks ok from breech to muzzle, but muzzle to breech is still frosty.

Having used the last of my Red Dot and not finding any in stock, another friend gave me a pound of REX-1. The least expensive, higher quality, fat .30 cal bullet I could find was the Speer 180gr Hot-Cor. The main rules of The Load are 1) case bigger than Krag, 2) normal weight bullet for cartridge, 3) 13gr Red Dot. Since I was using a heavier bullet and powder approximating Red Dot, I chose 12gr. This bullet isn't quite as blunt, and I couldn't jam the bullet into the lands without sacrificing neck tension. Even at 2.98" COAL, the base of the bullet is only 0.18" into the neck.

Here you can see the wasp waist between the false neck and bullet.
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The first test was offhand at 25yds in a back pasture, but it showed promise, right before my club's July High Power Rifle match in which I wanted to vie for the vintage rifle award. The goal there was 375/500 points, which I missed with a 349, aiming with the right corner of the post in center-mass. An expectable score, maybe respectable for a shakedown. The bore is now cleaned with just patches on jags, and quite shiny both ways, but you can see the imperfections.

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Only the best benchrest equipment for me!
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This past weekend I finally got to put the Mosin in it's first MBAR match. Using the 550m setting and center-mass hold the sighters hit 4 MOA high and 3 MOA right. I almost remembered the sight graduations that I measured and went to 500m and 6:00 hold.

The 1st group for record was 1.3 MOA.  As expected.
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The 2nd group was 1.4 MOA.
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The 1st score for record was 82/100. Sight at 500m, 6:00 hold, gradually sliding the post left and up to center mass, using the top-right corner.
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2nd score was 94/100-3x. The first two shots were at 4:30. I then moved to 550m and held under a thick line of white, thinking it was a 4 MOA shift. When holding a thin line of white, near enough 6:00 with the top-right corner - boom. I started calling shots within the 10-ring, laughing in disbelief while single loading.
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3rd score was 96/100. I was either getting tired or didn't have my natural point of aim aligned well, causing more windage. I pulled the low 3. This Mosin doesn't have a terrible trigger, but it feels like a double action. You can see the cocking piece dip during the press.
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Summary target.
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I think it's rehabilitated. Now to chronograph, confirm bayonet zero with The Load and light ball, and hopefully push the front sight to the right 0.020".

ETA: Afterwards I plinked at the 200yd steel. I found one of the misses. It measured 0.303 x 0.315". You can see remnants of moly coat that the tumbler couldn't remove, when I decided that a hydroscopic substance might not be good for such a porous surface.
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Impressive work for a garbage stick.

Thats some fine reloading and shooting.

Thanks for sharing this.

I knew a borescope wasn’t a good idea for ME.

Looking at that picture it would have been hard to believe that rifle was still 1.3~ capable in my mind.

Fire lapping did wonders for my Moison's bore.

Ten shots with LBT abrasive paste.  After you look with the bore scope, you may need ten more.
Fire lapping cuts a few thousandths from the lands so don't overdo it.

For 100yd matches try Hornady 303 150gr SP .312 dia bullets #3120 . They don't need to be loaded hot.

I uses either Sierra 174 .311 BTHP match bullets or the Hornady .312 version for precision load for PU snipers.

If the bore is dark and muzzle/ crown worn flat base bullets generally do better.

Of your bore is on the bigger side .313 dia Bullets for 7.65 Argentine are a option.

Thanks for doing this. If there was ever a Like Button for ARFCOM threads.. this would get it.

Some nice shooting from an old classic.  You might investigate paper patched lead bullets.  They polish a bore beyond belief and enable you to fit bullets to odd sized worn bores.

There's a Rate button at the top.

Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:

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I scrubbed the bore with dozens of patches soaked with Hoppe's #9 and JB bore paste on a brush. It went from dark to frosty. A couple days later it darkened again, so I scrubbed again.



Great shooting!

Needs even more JB Bore Paste.  

Heck, if you took all the corroded steel out of that barrel, you'd have a smooth bore musket.  

Now needs 8 more.

To the OP: Your Timing is excellent. I have a few Mosins that I’m about to start loading for.

Something kind of interesting-the FMJ loads I’ve disassembled have something almost like a hollow base bullet. They seem to do a bit better than the FMJBTs in my current handloads.

Bulgarian L BALL is a copy of Russian Pre WW2 L BALL and has a cupped base 150 gr jacketed bullet and it generally shoots well in all Mosins as it can upset and fill bore. Tons was imported a few yrs ago and some Bulgarian D BALL was imported too.

try to find some 174gr Sierra hpbt. They will shrink your group by half. STOP cleaning that bore. It will not make one difference but will make it worse. One of the best things you can do is find a M39 trigger sear and the safety cocking piece on the end of the bolt. Or make yours if you have spare parts. The 2 stage trigger is really nice. I have made 3 of them and getting the 2 pins in the right location on the trigger is the hardest part. All of mine have a nice 3lb trigger. I also added a over travel set screw to limit the trigger travel. It makes the trigger much nicer by limiting the amount of travel it can go.

And stay away from the Czech Silver tip unless you want to beat the bolt open with a hammer.

Reduced loads at 100yds would be a waste of those SMKs. If I think it's ready for 600yds, I'll fill the case with H4831 and consider those.

Rocky Road should only be an ice cream flavor, not a bore surface. Now that it has smoothed out quite a bit, I've only been using oil patches.

As it's a 91/30, I don't think a trigger swap like that is allowed or in the spirit of the rules. I'm a proponent of overtravel, especially with slow bullets.

4831 is the wrong powder for this cart. You want 4895 or varget speeds. I have been shooting these rifles for 35 years. Some of the worst looking bores will surprise you. The muzzle is what counts on the 54r. As long as there is a good crown it will shoot. Most of mine will shoot between 1.5" groups to 2" at 100 yds.

I set mine up for a 6 oclock hold to shoot center of target. I do that by knocking out the front sight and drilling out the post. I then drill a set screw in the side to be able to use a new smaller pin and to be able to adjust the height to get it to the POI I like.

And don't seat your bullets like you are doing. with the die set up. Get the propper neck die. You are using the 308 bullet expander by the looks of that loaded round. If you can't get a propper neck die then get the RCBS neck expander die and pick the 0.310" expander. You will have way less run out than the cockeyed looking round you are showing.

ok.

A-B-C-D, man. I've just progressed to B.

.003" of neck tension is the maximum I will use. Your loaded round looks like you seated the bullet in a sized case that didn't use the neck mandrel.

I admit I never use reduced rifle rounds, only powder puff revolver loads. David Tubbs sells "Final Finish" bore polishing bullets and your bore looks like it could use them. You basically load his bullets with starting charges of the fastest burning powder listed for any round, then you shoot them starting with the coarsest grain polish first. I clean and dry the bore between each stage.

I had a buddy that shot reduced load lead bullets through his 1903 Springfield all the time. He loved the economy and practice it provided. He was one of the best off-hand shooters that I knew, his winter .22 leagues helped in that regard I am sure.

I would ditch the neck constriction and settle for .002" to no more than .004" of neck tension. I think it will help with accuracy and brass life.

The Tubbs bullet will not work very well in this barrel as it is 0.315"+ and the Tubbs bullets are 0.308". I have used some of my cast bullets that were 0.314" then powder coated and then loaded the bullet with the Wheeler bore lapping compound to smooth out a tight spot in the bore from the rear sight being pinned and deforming the bore. It works but you have to be careful not to shoot too many of them.

David Tubbs sells a .311" Final Finish bullet. I think that conforms to what a Mosin Nagant bore is supposed to be.

This borrowed Lee 54R die set doesn't have another expander. Did you fellas really think I would intentionally use an undersize? I remembered that I have a Lee 7.62x39 set with 2nd expander, but the collet is being stubborn.

Here's some borescope pics from right after the first cleaning upon acquisition last year. Leade, approx 1/3 and 2/3 down the bore, and the counterbored crown. It was dark enough that I wanted to use max light brightness, but the Hoppe's oil reflected too much.

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Yesterday, after ~100 rounds of Novosibirsk 188 light ball and ~200 rounds of The Load with aforementioned scrubs over the year, and running light oil patches through last week.

Just behind the mirror, half the freebore is pocked.
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A little rough on patches.
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You can see either remaining accumulation or pitting beside the lands. The muzzle side actually looks worse than near the throat, with more pitting and shallower looking lands.
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I'm interested in shooting so,e reduced loads in 54r as well, may need to try this.

As for the barrel, last Mosin sewer bore I alternated between a few different cleaners but the best thing was a Butch's flush, wait a few minutes then scrub, followed by a J-B paste lapping. Repeat as needed until cleaned up..and it was a LOT of cleaning up. That one did not have pitting, just years of dust and neglect. Obviously if pitted it's not going to clean up as well.

I'm sure you have your own thoughts on J-B as a high power competitor. I don't like using it on good barrels but stuff like Mosins it is perfect.

Added video from July to the OP.

Need to tell that guy with the M1A to take the spot furthest on the right side of the firing line next time

How'd you do in the match with The Load and this rifle?

So "zeroed with bayonet" may be true.

With the sun glinting the left side of the rear notch, the owner and I fired 5 rounds of The Load each using 550m setting and straight 6:00 hold. I swabbed the bore with oil and dry patches, then fired 2 rounds of Tulammo at 100m setting which hit low, then 3 more at 300m setting, then 5 rounds of surplus light ball.

I apologize for a messy OnTarget display.

Group 1, me shooting The Load - red oval. Horizontal offset: right 0.05". Vertical offset: up 1.83".

Group 2, friend shooting The Load - green oval. I think the glint got to him. Months prior, I asked if I could square the notch and paint it flat black, but he worried about rust or something so I didn't do it. After firing, he said "Man, this would be a lot better if it was square."

Group 3, me shooting ball ammo - big blue rectangle. Horizontal offset: right 0.17". Vertical offset: down 0.27".

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So now I need to see if there are any range-specific rules against bayonet mounting. It is tight so during cease-fires I would either lay it on the table behind the firing line, or stick a long, bright ribbon to it like lumber out of a pickup truck bed. If not allowed, then I'll move the front sight.

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I chronographed The Load. It seems I'm a harder holder.

Me: 1418, 1396, 1430, 1423, 1427fps.
Friend: 1375, 1356, 1368, 1401, 1395fps.

Remind me to go shoot this weekend.

I also have five rounds each of 55 and 57gr H4831 under the 180gr Hot-Cor bullet. For anticipated comparison: .308 Win/190gr BTSP/46gr H4831 .

Standing by for results...

I'd love to have a couple different loads for the Nugget so it would be worthwhile to use. Current only hand load is a Sierra Pro-Hunter over Varget.

Awesome info. My m44 POI changes by a foot when the bayonet is folded vs extended. Haven’t tried handload inn for it but I do have a mess of .312 soft points floating around.

100yd across-the-course match. Same load as in the OP. Started with 550m setting and 6:00 hold. Bayonet attached. Morning sun in our faces as the range faces ESE. Windage was not zeroed unfortunately as I had to put the right edge of post ~2 MOA inside the right edge of the bull.

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Offhand, 10 shots in 10 minutes.

85/100 points. One of the highs and one of the lefts was slightly outside of my call.
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Sitting Rapid, 10 shots in 60 seconds.

90/100-2x. The lack of ergonomics started to show up and my glasses were slipping. It looked about a scoring ring worse while shooting. The cases have finally fireformed as I detected a little resistance to the bolt closing.
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Prone Rapid, 10 shots in 70 seconds.

81/100 points. Mosins are just hard to shoot prone. A couple of the high shots are there because I didn't pull into the shoulder as forcefully resulting in more barrel movement during barrel time. The low shot is on call. I finally noticed a pattern.
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Prone Slow, Two strings of 10 shots in 10 minutes.

61/100 points. I clicked down to the 500m setting. Mosins are hard to shoot prone, especially unsupported. The rear sight had a lot of glint in the left side.
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An oddity was observed. Inside 7 of the "grease" rings, the hole where the paper tore was biased to the right. The eyes could see it better than the camera. The target was stapled snugly against the fresh plywood.
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81/100 points. I used my lunch box as support. The two shots out left were off call. The 4:00 7 was on call.
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Aggregate: 398/500-2x.

Summary target:
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A hurried chrono test right after the match, using the lunch box for support on the bench.

Same 180gr Hot-Cor bullet at the same length. 55gr H4831 is book max, but filled just above the shoulder in these PPU cases and you could hear it shake. 57gr fills up to the base of the bullet. As there is a minimal amount of shank in the case I don't want to compress the powder, otherwise I could put another grain in.

55gr H4831:
2454, 2442, 2474, 2440, 2472fps.
Avg: 2456fps. ES: 34fps. SD: 16fps.

57gr H4831:
2564, 2590 (pulled right), 2594, 2584, 2584fps.
Avg: 2583fps. ES: 30fps. SD: 12fps.

I used 300m for the 55gr load and 100m for the 57gr load. Straight 6:00 hold.
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No noticeable soot was left in the bottom of the barrel.

The Load cases didn't soot much past the base of the bullet. The H4831 cases sooted a little more to the false neck.
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The Load left. 57gr H4831 right. The firing pin hole isn't flat, causing the cratering. Since the primers seat deep, the higher pressure smacks them against the bolt face.
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It’s been awhile…maybe 2006…but I just called Lee and got a different expander for my 7.62x54 does.

JBM says a 180gr bullet with a 0.30 G1 at 1400fps is going 1240fps at 100yds. I wonder if simply being at the top of transonic is the primary cause of the observed "precession" in the Prone Slow holes.

I think I'll proceed to 13gr Rex-1.

My decent 7.62x54r load uses 150/147 gr 3.11 projectiles and H335. Accurate ~4" groups, sometimes 2" in my counterbored M38 (and a huuuuuge fireball).

Not a reduced load, but recoil is pretty mild. And yeah, the Lee x54R die ships with a .308 expander, not a .310 one. You can order them separately.

Try 46.5 IMR 4895 with 174gr SMK

Two thou greater neck ID. 13gr Rex-1. Bayonet attached. Same bullet, same overall length.

40 degrees, 80% humidity. We'll see.

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500m/6:00 hold made the sighters high. There was a gap between the hill behind the range and the roof, letting early sun shine only on my firing point, which lit the rear sight and made elevation control difficult.

Group 1: 450m setting, 6:00 hold. My Port Authority jacket was a bit tight on the shoulders, let the elbows slip on the bench, and didn't jive with the buttplate.

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Group 2: Jacket removed. Still struggling with the rear illumination.

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Score 1: 95-1x. Winner.
400m, started with 6:00 hold, then moved up to flat tire.

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Score 2: 89-2x.
There may have been a "lights up-sights up" effect as the shade finally covered me and I moved to a center mass hold. I am a "hardholder". I like a rifle firmly in my shoulder, with 5-10lbs of arm pull and another 5lbs from a sling, bipod, or sandbag (which I used), but the Mosin doesn't have much to catch on the sandbag. After loading, I pulled the rifle into my shoulder, swung the elbow down, leaned against the rifle, dragged my cheek until the sights aligned, but sometimes the rifle would slip forward. The straight stock doesn't let you pull consistently either. I think the latter sent the first round down into the white.

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Score 3: 95-1x. Winner.
Maybe my eye prescription is getting a little old cuz I fuzzed a couple shots. Still struggled with the force balance.

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Summary target.

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The 2 unmarked sighter holes in the white were fired at 500m setting, 3 unmarked in black at 450m. Near identical numbers to the ones from September. Check out the mean radius circle nearly overlapping the 10-ring of the SR-1 target. The wind was about 3-7mph, 3/4 to full value. A quick JBM calculation predicts about 1 MOA of drift difference between the extremes. The holes were either straight or less crooked, so the higher muzzle velocity and lower speed of sound seems to have helped that.

My natural point of aim looked a hair left the whole day.

I won 2 of the 5 gold dollars while competing against an M1903A3 and Turkish Mauser 1893(?). Shooting stuff is fun.

ETA: I fired 5 shots offhand at the 200yd steel. First 2 at 500m/6:00 which missed. #3 at 550m/6:00 and I heard a smack, so I held the last 2 at center mass and heard smacks. That jives with the JBM calculation of 9 MOA up and my sight graduation measurements.

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Cold one today.

15-20*F. Not much breeze under the roof, but downrange it could lift paper out of your hands. It was bearable weather.

I asked my buddy if shooting a Russian rifle in winter grants a stat bonus. Turns out it gave Area Of Effect damage as his M1903A3 was disabled with light strikes at the first round (old, weak spring + wrong oil?). I knew I should have brought Da's Garand...

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Same load as last time. 0.306" ID, FL short sized cases, 13.0gr Rex-1, 180gr HotCor, 2.98" COAL.

Sighters: 400m setting, straight 6:00 hold. Little low, little left.


Group 1: 450m setting, straight 6:00 hold. Settled into the 10-ring.

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Group 2: Pulled the high one.

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Score 1: 94/100-3x.
First hole went left with straight hold. Kentucky windaged to the right then middle. Had one oops into the 8-ring. Great waterline.

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Score 2: 93/100-2x.
Group settled low so I tried flat tire hold. Natural point of aim and trigger control must have been inconsistent. The sun was coming up and the wind subsided, but it seemed eerily colder.

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Score 3: 90/100-1x.
Started high, went back to 6:00 hold, settled low. Pulled one high and one left.

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Summary: 277/300-6x.

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The match host used a Finnish Mosin. I think he started with Berry's 123gr plated, which were not to his satisfaction (grouped barely better than me ); one bullet even keyholed through the plywood with a loud thwack. Would Accurate 5744 easily propel faster than Berry's limit of 2400fps? I think then he switched to SSTs which puckered, including a 100/100-5x.

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Anyway. This Russian Mosin shoots well enough to respond to sight adjustments, so I think that confirms Rex-1 as a suitable replacement for Red Dot, and that 13.0gr Red Dot is still The Load . If I find some cheaper, lighter bullets work even better, or if I do more full power work, I'll make a new thread.

To replace the 308 expander that comes with Lee 54R dies with a 311 use the replacement expander for 303 British. Midway has them for $3.

I had the chronograph out yesterday. 50*F, low humidity.

180gr HotCor/13gr Rex-1:

1514, 1508, 1521, 1505, 1518, 1507, 1503, 1486, 1509, 1497 fps.