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Posted: 7/22/2009 4:56:36 PM EDT
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Sorry for kicking what might be a dead horse but search showed nothing.
First - Is there a semi auto only UMP 40 or 45 available for civilian purchase (reg SBR of course) for about $1200? Second - If so, where and if not, why? Wes |
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Quoted: Sorry for kicking what might be a dead horse but search showed nothing. First - Is there a semi auto only UMP 40 or 45 available for civilian purchase (reg SBR of course) for about $1200? Second - If so, where and if not, why? Wes Yes, they made a single stack in .45 I believe but will only take 10rd mags. Special weapons made a conversion kit so that you could use the high cap mags. I don't think they are made anymore. As for your second question it is because HK thinks we piddly little civilians are not worthy to own a gun like that.  By the way I have fired a 2 shot burst registered gun. In my opinion they are junk. |
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Sorry for kicking what might be a dead horse but search showed nothing. First - Is there a semi auto only UMP 40 or 45 available for civilian purchase (reg SBR of course) for about $1200? Second - If so, where and if not, why? Wes Well, you can get a USC for about $1500 and modify it with a UMP lower, stock, block, and mags to be a semi .45 UMP. You can also get a .40 barrel and bolt (or 9mm if you can find it). Not factory though. It'll cost you. I'm currently working on one. |
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Sorry for kicking what might be a dead horse but search showed nothing. First - Is there a semi auto only UMP 40 or 45 available for civilian purchase (reg SBR of course) for about $1200? Second - If so, where and if not, why? Wes You'll have to purchase an USC and then convert it to an UMP. |
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Even though the HK haters hate to admit it, it is not HK that prohibits you from owning one. It is our federal government whose draconian laws that prohibit it. Because the UMP semi can be converted to FA with just a simple trigger pack switch, just like a push pin 91, they classify it as a MG even with the semi-auto pack. The same reasoning is behind the HK 9x rifles not having a push pin front trigger housing. While there are some out there that had the front push pin (they were grandfathered in IIRC) if you drill a 91 to take front and rear push pins, even though a semi auto pack may be in the rifle, the ATFE considers it a MG.
It is the ATFE that considers the UMP, even with a semi-auto pack, a MG, not HK. They gave us what the US Government and the ATFE would allow with the USC, but to make it look like a UMP you have to do the conversions with US parts to reduce imported parts counts to keep it all nice and legal. |
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Even though the HK haters hate to admit it, it is not HK that prohibits you from owning one. It is our federal government whose draconian laws that prohibit it. Because the UMP semi can be converted to FA with just a simple trigger pack switch, just like a push pin 91, they classify it as a MG even with the semi-auto pack. The same reasoning is behind the HK 9x rifles not having a push pin front trigger housing. While there are some out there that had the front push pin (they were grandfathered in IIRC) if you drill a 91 to take front and rear push pins, even though a semi auto pack may be in the rifle, the ATFE considers it a MG. It is the ATFE that considers the UMP, even with a semi-auto pack, a MG, not HK. They gave us what the US Government and the ATFE would allow with the USC, but to make it look like a UMP you have to do the conversions with US parts to reduce imported parts counts to keep it all nice and legal. Are the trigger packs serialized? If so, whats the problem, same as a RDIAS IMO. Wes |
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Quoted: No, if they wanted to they "could" make changes to the receiver and produce it here in the states. They choose not to though. Yes, and they could do that for every country they sell in. Pretty expensive. Instead they choose to just use 1 version and sell it in all countries. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Even though the HK haters hate to admit it, it is not HK that prohibits you from owning one. It is our federal government whose draconian laws that prohibit it. Because the UMP semi can be converted to FA with just a simple trigger pack switch, just like a push pin 91, they classify it as a MG even with the semi-auto pack. The same reasoning is behind the HK 9x rifles not having a push pin front trigger housing. While there are some out there that had the front push pin (they were grandfathered in IIRC) if you drill a 91 to take front and rear push pins, even though a semi auto pack may be in the rifle, the ATFE considers it a MG. It is the ATFE that considers the UMP, even with a semi-auto pack, a MG, not HK. They gave us what the US Government and the ATFE would allow with the USC, but to make it look like a UMP you have to do the conversions with US parts to reduce imported parts counts to keep it all nice and legal. Are the trigger packs serialized? If so, whats the problem, same as a RDIAS IMO. Wes No, uppers are the serialized part. |
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snip No, uppers are the serialized part. I understand that the upper is serialized as it is considered the receiver, but I was guessing that if the packs are changeable that they might also have a serialization to regulate the auto fire parts. No go? Wes |
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Quoted: And your point is what? There are lots of companies who make one particular weapon or variation for one country. Hell they make specialized AR's for California! The point is they could do it if they wanted to serve the shooting public.Quoted: No, if they wanted to they "could" make changes to the receiver and produce it here in the states. They choose not to though. Yes, and they could do that for every country they sell in. Pretty expensive. Instead they choose to just use 1 version and sell it in all countries. |
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Quoted: Quoted: And your point is what? There are lots of companies who make one particular weapon or variation for one country. Hell they make specialized AR's for California! The point is they could do it if they wanted to serve the shooting public.Quoted: No, if they wanted to they "could" make changes to the receiver and produce it here in the states. They choose not to though. Yes, and they could do that for every country they sell in. Pretty expensive. Instead they choose to just use 1 version and sell it in all countries. Point is to explain to some people like yourself who do not understand why they have historically not built guns in the US. Obviously they could build guns here. Duh. Now of course they and others (sig, Glock, for example), are starting to build guns here in the USA, as the profit starts to outweigh the cost. |
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Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears.  That's fine with me. I dont have the cash to support ammo and the sear for a FA addiction. I'll take my subguns in semi. I do want a UMP. I know some stuff about the conversion, but what does it entail in work, or is it all parts cost? Seems like i remember reading about conversions needing some plastic milled away, but I've seen USC/UMPs that have different lowers and can swap between a UMP lower and the original USC lower. ETA: Seems like one needs the lower, stock block, stock, and possibly barrel. Is there any machining need to be done or are they direct swap out parts? |
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The "floor" of the upper receiver needs to be milled out to accept the double-stack mag of the UMP as the USC takes a single stack mag. Some guys also
want the cooling slots milled into the receiver of the USC so that it mimics the UMP. These slots are located up above the handguard part of the receiver. Ed at HDPS.org is one of the go-to guys as far as USC to UMP conversions are concerned. He only communicates thru email, but he's good to do business with. Hope this helps! ARKAR |
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Quoted: Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear...  |
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No, if they wanted to they "could" make changes to the receiver and produce it here in the states. They choose not to though. ETA: I am not a HK hater as I own a MP5, HK2000 and a P30. It's all about the dollars. German law prohibts them from selling 'military' weapons to civvies anywhere in the world. |
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Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear...
Um... people have been waiting for a good long time now, I believe they're now on the MK6. Caliber conversions are $1000 each. As for not accepting an auto-sear, retrodog you sound like the guy who was angry Magpul wasn't making the Masada able to accept a DIAS or LL. It's a different gun. If you want a gun that accepts an autosear, get an old gun that accepts an auto sear. If you want something new get that new thing regardless of its FA capability. I don't see people complaining the XCR, FS2000, P90, SCAR can't take an incredibly expensive rare part that isn't part of the design of the regular version |
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Quoted: Hence the Quoted: Quoted: Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear... Um... people have been waiting for a good long time now, I believe they're now on the MK6. Caliber conversions are $1000 each. Plus, it s retrodog's personal issue... |
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No, if they wanted to they "could" make changes to the receiver and produce it here in the states. They choose not to though. ETA: I am not a HK hater as I own a MP5, HK2000 and a P30. It's all about the dollars. German law prohibits them from selling 'military' weapons to civvies anywhere in the world. Hence they had to produce the MR556 here and it could not have hot-swappable lowers, it gets me people read that lame HK sucks rant and think it's all true, when the fact is there is a myriad of laws and regulations not just here but also in Germany that prevent fun stuff from getting here, |
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snip No, uppers are the serialized part. I understand that the upper is serialized as it is considered the receiver, but I was guessing that if the packs are changeable that they might also have a serialization to regulate the auto fire parts. No go? Wes I have a UMP burst pack in my closet and it doesn't have any numbers on it as far as I can tell. |
| You can buy the UMP FA lowers legally from HDPS. I guess since the UMP is a MG even if it has a FA or SA lower the burst pack isn't registered. Since in order to install the burst pack you need an UMP (already a MG) so it doesn't matter. You can buy the lower and remove the FA parts for the USC conversion. |
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Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear...
Um... people have been waiting for a good long time now, I believe they're now on the MK6. Caliber conversions are $1000 each. As for not accepting an auto-sear, retrodog you sound like the guy who was angry Magpul wasn't making the Masada able to accept a DIAS or LL. It's a different gun. If you want a gun that accepts an autosear, get an old gun that accepts an auto sear. If you want something new get that new thing regardless of its FA capability. I don't see people complaining the XCR, FS2000, P90, SCAR can't take an incredibly expensive rare part that isn't part of the design of the regular version Renegade knows all about it. Hewas just picking on me. 
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Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear...
Um... people have been waiting for a good long time now, I believe they're now on the MK6. Caliber conversions are $1000 each. As for not accepting an auto-sear, retrodog you sound like the guy who was angry Magpul wasn't making the Masada able to accept a DIAS or LL. It's a different gun. If you want a gun that accepts an autosear, get an old gun that accepts an auto sear. If you want something new get that new thing regardless of its FA capability. I don't see people complaining the XCR, FS2000, P90, SCAR can't take an incredibly expensive rare part that isn't part of the design of the regular version Renegade knows all about it. Hewas just picking on me. Actually, as an aside, someone on HKPro.com was talking about getting the USC to accept a registered sear. Apparently it was declared to be a post-sample and confiscated. |
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Bah, who cares. The UMP is just an econo version of the MP5 anyway. Get the real thing and let the mall ninjas worry about their uber-cool high tech Underworld UMPs and G36s. Hell, they don't even take autosears. Or wait for the Pro-Arms Mk5 - all three calibers in one gun, and accepts a sear...
Um... people have been waiting for a good long time now, I believe they're now on the MK6. Caliber conversions are $1000 each. As for not accepting an auto-sear, retrodog you sound like the guy who was angry Magpul wasn't making the Masada able to accept a DIAS or LL. It's a different gun. If you want a gun that accepts an autosear, get an old gun that accepts an auto sear. If you want something new get that new thing regardless of its FA capability. I don't see people complaining the XCR, FS2000, P90, SCAR can't take an incredibly expensive rare part that isn't part of the design of the regular version Renegade knows all about it. Hewas just picking on me. Actually, as an aside, someone on HKPro.com was talking about getting the USC to accept a registered sear. Apparently it was declared to be a post-sample and confiscated. Yeah, you can't use a sear in a gun that it wasn't meant for. Seems like a crock but that's just the way it is. When you consider all the guns that an HK sear can be used in, I guess it's not worth bitching about too much. |
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