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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Powder coated bullets (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/24/2017 10:25:26 PM EDT
| I know some of you guys shoot powder coated bullets,and you coat them yourself. I just started doing some powder coat,using the shake and bake method. Last weekend I bought some powder coated bullets at the local gun show. The guy uses a powder coat gun,so that means the base of the bullet isn't coated. What is your preference on this,should the base be coated or not? Have you shot both and saw any difference in the two ways to coat? Dryflash3 ,I hope to hear your opinion on this, I know that you shoot powder coated bullets! |
| If the lead base of the bullet isn't coated, the powder used to reload could result in smoke and fouling. Hot powders will burn (not sure if that's the right word, or atomize) the lead resulting in additional smoke and lead related fouling in your barrel. Tightgroup powder and coated bullets are well known for this; do a search. |
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I coat my own, so my bases are coated.
According to the folks on Cast Bullets forum, it doesn't make a difference. Coating and Alternatives forum |
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Thanks for the replies guys. My thoughts were that the powder burning against the bullet base would add lead to the barrel and put lead residue into the air also but I thought I should ask others experiences\opinions!
Anyone else have an opinion or experience to add? |
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As dryflash3 posted, it doesn't make any difference.
This un-coated base thing comes up all the time and you'll see all sorts of things about melting bases and a lot of other BS. Fact is the only time the un-coated base is effected is when the bullet is exiting the barrel. If you are not using a muzzle brake or "can" this is a non-issue. Just remember while powder coating often expands your usable load range it's not a substitute for a gas check. At least it hasn't been proven to be yet. Motor |
| Thanks for the reply Motor,I wondered about shooting them thru a can also. I know the PC wouldn't replace a gascheck,but I don't plan on pushing them fast enough to need one.But maybe later,you never know.This PC deal could be addictive,and spread to my other calibers. |
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Thanks for the reply Motor,I wondered about shooting them thru a can also. I know the PC wouldn't replace a gascheck,but I don't plan on pushing them fast enough to need one.But maybe later,you never know.This PC deal could be addictive,and spread to my other calibers. You will be surprised on how much faster you can push a PC bullet without a gas check, and not have any problems. With waxed bullets, I gas checked anything over 1400fps to prevent leading. With PC bullets in a pistol, I will push them 1800fps without a gas check isntead. Hell, it's only in rifles that I am pushing them over 1700fps that I add gas checks to the PC bullets, due to the longer barrel/longer heat behind them instead. |
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I have used both. I started coating pc bullets using the HF electro- static gun and those worked just fine w/o the bases coated.
Since then I have switched to the HF red and shake 'n' bake because it is just s lot easier. I can cost twice as many in the same amount of time. I would have no problem going back to pc bullets with uncoated bases for pistol. |
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Those look great! The red ones I have done so far don't seem to look as good. Did you double coat those? Not double coated. I have only used the wizard's combination (#5 container, black bbs and HF red) and haven't had a problem. That pic was from the first/second time I used the shakenbake. |
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If you are fighting humidity - ditch the BB's and try this method.
I don't use this method exactly - I guess I'm a bit anal - I place each round base down on a AL plate covered with non-stick foil. I also use multiple plates and 2 ovens - one set for the preheat the other for final coat. This does allow for full coverage even with the bullet standing on the foil. I also use gas checks on heavier loads.  POWDER COATED BULLETS (in half the time) "MARATHON" "tips" Edit: - This is NOT me, just someone who found the sweet spot for pre-heating before applying coating. |
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Shake and bake is quick, easy and cost/material effective over spraying.
That said there are some pitfalls to watch for. Humidity will wreak havoc on you. Some powders will not dry tumble no matter how long , how dry or how hot the environment is. Tweezers or spraying isn't my bag as I simply want effective function over form. Different strokes for different folks A simple 30 second shake with black airsoft soft bb's in a #5 plastic container is all I do. I dump around 180-200 pistol bullets straight onto hardware clothe and into the oven they go. HF red powder is ok and cheap, the other HF colors are horrible. Tried preheating the bullets and found it to be an unnecessary waste of time, and a invitation to get burnt. Some freshly baked .40 
Some combo colored .45ACP 
All done with one 15min bake coat, and I never touch a uncoated lead bullet during the process. |
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I'm going to try the preheat method in the future. I think I am gonna give it a shot myself.I think one of my problems might be that I don't cast my own,so I have lubed bullets I am stripping the lube off of with lacquer thinner.I am wondering if there might be some residue leftover from the lube causing a lil problem.I may have to invest in some equipment to cast my own. |
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Shake and bake is quick, easy and cost/material effective over spraying. That said there are some pitfalls to watch for. Humidity will wreak havoc on you. Some powders will not dry tumble no matter how long , how dry or how hot the environment is. Tweezers or spraying isn't my bag as I simply want effective function over form. Different strokes for different folks A simple 30 second shake with black airsoft soft bb's in a #5 plastic container is all I do. I dump around 180-200 pistol bullets straight onto hardware clothe and into the oven they go. HF red powder is ok and cheap, the other HF colors are horrible. Tried preheating the bullets and found it to be an unnecessary waste of time, and a invitation to get burnt. Some freshly baked .40 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aJe5KI22QO4/V_6br-pKK7I/AAAAAAAAP48/UHQdrL9CHiMMLDzfB9thO9ox-yaZI9U8QCHM/s1280/upload_-1 Some combo colored .45ACP https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1wjfJVLJB08/VgMMFrIeWWI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/-DXNDuEL5nU1abtP2XrsEAhEtMsh5S9OQCHM/s1280/upload_-1 All done with one 15min bake coat, and I never touch a uncoated lead bullet during the process. Those look great! Where are you getting your powders from? Do you have a list of powders you have tried that work with the shake and bake method. |
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Those look great! Where are you getting your powders from? Do you have a list of powders you have tried that work with the shake and bake method. Quoted:
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Shake and bake is quick, easy and cost/material effective over spraying. That said there are some pitfalls to watch for. Humidity will wreak havoc on you. Some powders will not dry tumble no matter how long , how dry or how hot the environment is. Tweezers or spraying isn't my bag as I simply want effective function over form. Different strokes for different folks A simple 30 second shake with black airsoft soft bb's in a #5 plastic container is all I do. I dump around 180-200 pistol bullets straight onto hardware clothe and into the oven they go. HF red powder is ok and cheap, the other HF colors are horrible. Tried preheating the bullets and found it to be an unnecessary waste of time, and a invitation to get burnt. Some freshly baked .40 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aJe5KI22QO4/V_6br-pKK7I/AAAAAAAAP48/UHQdrL9CHiMMLDzfB9thO9ox-yaZI9U8QCHM/s1280/upload_-1 Some combo colored .45ACP https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1wjfJVLJB08/VgMMFrIeWWI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/-DXNDuEL5nU1abtP2XrsEAhEtMsh5S9OQCHM/s1280/upload_-1 All done with one 15min bake coat, and I never touch a uncoated lead bullet during the process. Those look great! Where are you getting your powders from? Do you have a list of powders you have tried that work with the shake and bake method. Thank you. I can not tell you where to get the powders I use as it will get your thread locked. Go to "where to find" tacked thread and ask. I will say the powder is not cheap. |
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I think I am gonna give it a shot myself.I think one of my problems might be that I don't cast my own,so I have lubed bullets I am stripping the lube off of with lacquer thinner.I am wondering if there might be some residue leftover from the lube causing a lil problem.I may have to invest in some equipment to cast my own. Quoted:
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I'm going to try the preheat method in the future. I think I am gonna give it a shot myself.I think one of my problems might be that I don't cast my own,so I have lubed bullets I am stripping the lube off of with lacquer thinner.I am wondering if there might be some residue leftover from the lube causing a lil problem.I may have to invest in some equipment to cast my own. I've done some of that myself, and always end up doing 2 coats. The lube is very difficult to remove with any solvent. Your home cast bullets PC much easier. Some venders are now selling unlubed bullets Missouri Bullets |
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Ok, that's why you are having coating issues. Pre lubed bullets. I've done some of that myself, and always end up doing 2 coats. The lube is very difficult to remove with any solvent. Your home cast bullets PC much easier. Some venders are now selling unlubed bullets Missouri Bullets Thank you for the info, I wondered if the lube might be a problem.Also thanks for the info on the unlubed bullets. |
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Thank you. I can not tell you where to get the powders I use as it will get your thread locked. Go to "where to find" tacked thread and ask. I will say the powder is not cheap. Thank you for the info,it didn't occur to me about the where to find stuff at. |
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Thank you for the info,it didn't occur to me about the where to find stuff at. Quoted:
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Thank you. I can not tell you where to get the powders I use as it will get your thread locked. Go to "where to find" tacked thread and ask. I will say the powder is not cheap. Thank you for the info,it didn't occur to me about the where to find stuff at. To clarify, If you start a thread and ask "where do I find...." it will get locked. But if a thread is addressing a technical question, it's fine to post a link to something being asked about. |
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To clarify, If you start a thread and ask "where do I find...." it will get locked. But if a thread is addressing a technical question, it's fine to post a link to something being asked about. So it is ok if I ask what colors of powder coat work for dry tumbling? If not please delete. |
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To clarify, If you start a thread and ask "where do I find...." it will get locked. But if a thread is addressing a technical question, it's fine to post a link to something being asked about. Quoted:
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Thank you. I can not tell you where to get the powders I use as it will get your thread locked. Go to "where to find" tacked thread and ask. I will say the powder is not cheap. Thank you for the info,it didn't occur to me about the where to find stuff at. To clarify, If you start a thread and ask "where do I find...." it will get locked. But if a thread is addressing a technical question, it's fine to post a link to something being asked about. OK then, since approved.. Well worth the cost as this powder is like a fine dust and makes the HF powder look and act like rock salt. Smoke4320 Hi-Quality Powder coat paints 1 Lb double zip lock freezer bags of powder 3 color Trial size will also be available (3 1/3rd Lb bags ) for same price as a 1 LB order As of 12/28/2016 colors in stock listed below Flat black WILL NOT Dry Tumble !!! All colors are below are Super Durable HI Gloss and WILL Dry Tumble RAL 1002...Bacon Grease RAL 9005...Jet Black RAL 5005...Signal Blue RAL 5012...Carolina blue RAL 6018...Yellow Green AG Green....John Deere Green RAL 2009...Traffic Orange RAL 8023...Orange/Brown RAL 4010...Pink (telemagenta) RAL 4006 ..Traffic Purple RAL 3000...Flame Red RAL 9006 ..White Aluminum (Silver) RAL 1016...Sulfur Yellow RAL 1023...Traffic Yellow RAL 9016...Traffic White New color Super Durable Hi Gloss CLEAR back in stock New Pricing as of the 1/22/17 USPS shipping price increase 1 LB Shipped is $18.90 2 Lbs Shipped is $30.90 3 Lbs Shipped is $42.90 4 Lbs Shipped is $54.90 That's just $13.72 SHIPPED per LB for quantities over 4LBs Just add $12.00 per LB to cover powder and additional shipping |
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To learn more about Powder Coating, go to the Cast Boolits (how they spell it over there) site. Coating forum
These guys perfected this technique and are the experts. When I wanted to learn Powder Coating, I read the stickies in that forum, bought some stuff and had success on the very first batch. Good luck |
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To learn more about Powder Coating, go to the Cast Boolits (how they spell it over there) site. Coating forum These guys perfected this technique and are the experts. When I wanted to learn Powder Coating, I read the stickies in that forum, bought some stuff and had success on the very first batch. Good luck All better. |
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If you are stripping off existing bullet lube here is an easy way.
Use large can, coffee, bush beans etc. Wash well, (I run it through the dishwasher.) Fill half full with lubed slugs, add water till about 3/4 full. Place on stove and let boil for 20-30 minutes. Add more warm water till mix is maybe 1/2" from top. Allow can to cool enough to handle, then place in refrigerator. Later remove from fridge and break out hardened disk of lube. Pour bullets in basin and again wash with mild mix of hot water and Dawn dish soap. Be sure no small fragments of lube get into basin. Rinse with warm water and lay out bullets to dry. This will remove 99% of the lube, a quick final wash with a minimal amount of Acetone or Lacquer Thinner will remove the last traces of lube. Note: Since most of the lube was already removed the solvent will be much more effective. BTW - the lube can be given back to a loader and re-cast into sticks. |
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If you are stripping off existing bullet lube here is an easy way. Use large can, coffee, bush beans etc. Wash well, (I run it through the dishwasher.) Fill half full with lubed slugs, add water till about 3/4 full. Place on stove and let boil for 20-30 minutes. Add more warm water till mix is maybe 1/2" from top. Allow can to cool enough to handle, then place in refrigerator. Later remove from fridge and break out hardened disk of lube. Pour bullets in basin and again wash with mild mix of hot water and Dawn dish soap. Be sure no small fragments of lube get into basin. Rinse with warm water and lay out bullets to dry. This will remove 99% of the lube, a quick final wash with a minimal amount of Acetone or Lacquer Thinner will remove the last traces of lube. Note: Since most of the lube was already removed the solvent will be much more effective. BTW - the lube can be given back to a loader and re-cast into sticks. Thank you for the info. I believe that is the best way I have heard of to remove the lube. That saves on solvents too,they aren't cheap anymore! I will be trying this method! |
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The lube may harden in floating clumps if there is not enough to cover the entire top of the water. On a batch of 115gr 9mm slugs with a single small groove I thought I had not run it long enough - but they were clean.
I first did this on some 45-70 slugs that had 5 lube grooves and the lube was soo soft it was like vasoline. I found that rounds left bullet up were melting the lube in summer and it was running down the inside of the case fouling the powder. I was given about 4000 counterfeit plated 38 158gr SWC - thing is they were not plated, some jack@$$ sprayed them with copper rattle can paint then lubed them. The lead is very soft and even at 38spl min loads it gums up the barrel. I intend to strip these and give them a powder job. 
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How do you keep the paint from being scraped off when you push them into the case at the press? Use enough flair to get the bullet started, you don't need to really open up the mouth but you will need more than for say a jacketed bullet. Seat as you normally would. You do need to be careful with how much crimp is applied. PC can get cut thru if you apply more crimp than you should/need just like a plated bullet. Of course, applying to much crimp is also bad with lead and even jacketed bullets. ANY bullet will be damaged if you go to far... it's really not different just because the bullet is PC'd. Set up your dies correctly, you won't need to worry about damaging the PC. |
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Shake and bake is quick, easy and cost/material effective over spraying. That said there are some pitfalls to watch for. Humidity will wreak havoc on you. Some powders will not dry tumble no matter how long , how dry or how hot the environment is. Tweezers or spraying isn't my bag as I simply want effective function over form. Different strokes for different folks A simple 30 second shake with black airsoft soft bb's in a #5 plastic container is all I do. I dump around 180-200 pistol bullets straight onto hardware clothe and into the oven they go. HF red powder is ok and cheap, the other HF colors are horrible. Tried preheating the bullets and found it to be an unnecessary waste of time, and a invitation to get burnt. Some freshly baked .40 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aJe5KI22QO4/V_6br-pKK7I/AAAAAAAAP48/UHQdrL9CHiMMLDzfB9thO9ox-yaZI9U8QCHM/s1280/upload_-1 Some combo colored .45ACP https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1wjfJVLJB08/VgMMFrIeWWI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/-DXNDuEL5nU1abtP2XrsEAhEtMsh5S9OQCHM/s1280/upload_-1 All done with one 15min bake coat, and I never touch a uncoated lead bullet during the process. All those bullets look great. I love that blue and green. Now that you've posted the prices and where to get the powder from... how many bullets can you do with 1lb of powder ? Dumping them into that wire basket, does it put marks on them where the wire touches ? |
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Hey guys, I don't want to derail a thread, but I just wanted to ask some things about how exactly powder coating works.
Does powder coating replace a gas check on a boolit that other wise would need one? For example, this mold? Can I cast a boolit from this mold, powder coat it, size it, and shoot it? I will try to push these bullets as fast as is safe and sensible to do. Thanks. |
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Hey guys, I don't want to derail a thread, but I just wanted to ask some things about how exactly powder coating works. Does powder coating replace a gas check on a boolit that other wise would need one? For example, this mold? Can I cast a boolit from this mold, powder coat it, size it, and shoot it? I will try to push these bullets as fast as is safe and sensible to do. Thanks. I do use gas checks on the rifle PC bullets that I load. If your going for a full load like you say, use a gas check. Have you used the Lee push through sizer? It's what I use to install the GC's and size. |
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First, I ordered one of those molds when you posted that link a while ago. Thanks, was looking for a 6.5 mold. I do use gas checks on the rifle PC bullets that I load. If your going for a full load like you say, use a gas check. Have you used the Lee push through sizer? It's what I use to install the GC's and size. So you powder coat the bullet, then you hand fit the gas check onto the base. Then you run the whole thing through the Lee sizer, and that's it? Ready to load, with no lube needed? What velocities are you able to obtain with your PC and GC 6.5 bullets? This will be my 'go to' load for my Swedish brass that I've been so excited about, once I have my casting operation set up this summer. |
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It doesn't seem that Lee makes a push through sizing die for 6.5 on a regular basis.
Did find GC's and a conventional Lyman sizing die.266 here. |
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It doesn't seem that Lee makes a push through sizing die for 6.5 on a regular basis. Did find GC's and a conventional Lyman sizing die.266 here. |
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The above is correct. Gas checks before, after or in some cases can be done either way.
And Yes you can shoot many gas check base type cast bullets with just powder coating, but at the lower (or much lower) velocity range than you could aim for with gas checks. There are some reduced loads for 223 that use like 5gr powder for 1800-2000fps Cast bullets offer a new range of options - powder coating vrs traditional "grease groove" expands the options even more. Then to add even another option is the free-chex made from beer or soda cans which is much thinner than std copper GC's and can be fitted to "plain base" non-GC profile cast bullets. Now one factor that is often ignored is that the cure baking of the powder coat tends to leave the lead in a softer state than when my casting machine drops the bullets from the mold into a water tank for quench hardening. This means the benefits of running some of the harder alloys like Lino-type don't pay off as much with powder coat - but means that a gas check can be even more important to allow the soft base of the bullet cope with the heat and pressure during firing. This issue shows up when guys are trying to push 200+gr bullets out of 7" 300 blackout barrels. As for LEE push through dies, slug your barrel then if LEE doesn't make the size you need buy the next smaller size and open it up. Google and Youtube can show you how, a wooden dowel and some 600 grit wet/dry emory cloth or "sand" paper. Can be done my hand on your coffee table in a few minutes if the die is close to start with. |
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I don't agree that you need to shoot "much lower velocity" with non gas checked powder coated pistol bullets.
I'm shooting a 440gr in my 500 S&W unchecked at a book 33,200 psi without any issues. This bullet is only 12bhn when cast. I haven't tested one for hardness after powder coating. 30,000 psi is no slouch in a 44mag it's only about 8k under maximum. (Cast bullet data) and these were only 12bhn when cast. I have no doubt I could approach max cast data loads using the correct powder coated alloy in big bore pistols without using a gas check. Motor |
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I understand that.
A good flat base bullet can be pumped up pretty good. What I was referring to was a gas check type bullet that has very little metal sealing the bore between the base and the lowest lube groove, the design is counting on the GC being present, and if it has been left off it is a weak point - by design. |
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The 440gr Lee that I use for the 500 S&W is a gas check designed bullet. Maybe there are some that have this problem you speak of but this one does fine.
I currently use 2 different loads. One I call the slow sledgehammer it uses 13gr Unique. The other one uses 27.5gr Iil gun. Although I'm using them un-checked which many claim "hurts accuracy" both of these loads shoot nearly one hole groups at 50 yards and the Lil gun load has no problem staying on a 14x20 steel swinger at 225 yards. So much for another cast bullet myth. Motor |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Powder coated bullets (Page 1 of 2)
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