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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/26/2002 7:19:22 PM EDT
So, since I now have a job (and a well paying job at that)I'm looking to get a preban M4. Gonna take me about a month or so to scrape up the cash for the ones I usually see advertised.

So, what should I look for in a preban M4?
What questions should I ask?
How much cash is too much?

Thanks for any and all advice.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:20:30 PM EDT
Welcome Aboard, Spade.

Are you really a Black Guy?
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:30:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By davelasso:
Welcome Aboard, Spade.

Are you really a Black Guy?



If you must know, I'm Irish-Sicilian.

Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2002 7:35:50 PM EDT by davelasso]
Oh i was just curious about your sign on. I don't want to derail the thread but you're right, sicilian is basically black.


Anyway i would just recomend COLT. Anything else EQUALS COMPRIMISE!
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:36:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By davelasso:
Oh i was just curious about your sign on.

but you're right, sicilian is basically black.



Uh, actually I sun burn on cloudy days.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 7:54:48 PM EDT
A real M-4 is going to cost more than just the weapon. You have to get special licenses or tax stamps or something like that. I'm sure one of the Class III guys can fill in the details on that.

If you're looking for the 'civilian' version commonly known as the M-4gery, you should be able to lay hands on one for under $2000. Way under if you're not particular about pedigree (Colt/Bushmaster/Armalite) and condition (new in box/unfired).

One thing I didn't think about when I put mine together was that you can't mount a bayonet. The 16" barrel puts the flash hider too far away from the bayo lug.

I wonder if anyone makes a bayonet with an 8" handle?
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:08:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CantHitShit:
A real M-4 is going to cost more than just the weapon. You have to get special licenses or tax stamps or something like that. I'm sure one of the Class III guys can fill in the details on that.

If you're looking for the 'civilian' version commonly known as the M-4gery, you should be able to lay hands on one for under $2000. Way under if you're not particular about pedigree (Colt/Bushmaster/Armalite) and condition (new in box/unfired).




Yeah, I should've clarified that.
I'm not looking at Class 3. The Luzerene County Sherriff will NOT sign off on any Class 3's for any reason.

And although I know the town's Chief by name, and he knows me (he was my 9th grade basketball coach), I don't know how he'd feel about a Class 3 in city limits, so I'm just not going to deal with it at the moment.

I'm not picky about pedigree, but am about condition.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:17:58 PM EDT
Spade, ignore some of the dorks around here.

I'm Irish, and my wife is Sicilian and I'd consider niether one of us black. NOT that it matters!

Anyway, best bet is looking for a good price on a preban lower and ordrering a M4 upper.

I bought an Olympic lower and threw a Bushmaster upper on it, and it's beautifull. I've got about $1100 in it.

Depending on what you want, You're looking at between $1100-$1600.

Definetaly get the M4 handguards, Bushmasters handguards aren't the same.

Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:30:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By seamusmcoi:

Anyway, best bet is looking for a good price on a preban lower and ordrering a M4 upper.

I bought an Olympic lower and threw a Bushmaster upper on it, and it's beautifull. I've got about $1100 in it.

Depending on what you want, You're looking at between $1100-$1600.

Definetaly get the M4 handguards, Bushmasters handguards aren't the same.




I'm new to the semi-auto EBR game.

How difficult an operation is this to do? Although customizing the whole thing does have an appeal.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 8:45:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By davelasso:
Welcome Aboard, Spade.

Are you really a Black Guy?



whats the deal with this guy??

about your question, It depends, If you are interested in colt, The cheapest way is to look for an old SP-1 Ussually around 1000 in excellent condition. they just sell the Upper and buy yourself an M-4 upper and replace it.. If you go that route, you will more than likely have to mess with large hole screw pins or whatever they call it, and flat slab lowers. the regular push pin lowers are ussually more expensive

You can also go with another brand, which ussually use standard lowers... with mag fence and regular pushpins. I myself have a Bushmaster and it has been excellent. I got mine for 995 locally in excellent condition and was verified as preban by Bushmaster. it was already in a car-15 config so I didn't have to spend on the collapsible stock, as I would with an SP-1. I then sold the CAR upper here for 400 bucks, and bought a Bushy m-4 upper for 500 including the detachable carry handle and vortex flash suppressor. (I love this place.)

I am very happy with my m-4gery,,, and wouldn't trade her for anything..
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 10:28:29 PM EDT
I agree with nocompromise. But, there are some other things to consider with the Colt. Unless the lower is an early Green Lable you have to get an adapter for the stupid oversized front takedown hole (unless you are just going to rebarrel the large hole upper). If it is a later Blue Lable, then you will most likely have to deal with non-standard sized pins for the fire control parts. You will also likely have a sear block in the Blue Labales, which I think is an eye sore. I honestly feel you would be better off buying either a preban bushmaster complete rifle, or lower, and build the rifle you want. If you buy a rifle in a non-M4gery configuration, you can always sell off the unwanted parts and use the cash to purchase M4 parts.

One more thing...when you finish this purchase/project, please post some pics for us.
Link Posted: 4/26/2002 11:14:43 PM EDT
IMO, if you want to get as authentic as possible with a preban M4gery (non-NFA), you need 3 things:
1. telestock
2. flat top upper
3. 14.5" barrel with cutout and permanently installed Phantom-type flash hider to bring the barrel to 16". (This barrel will accept a bayonet.)

Again, just my opinion.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 5:10:26 AM EDT
Spade, it's not hard to do. But if you want to save some cash, it does take a little time and patience. Basicly start hitting the for sale boards and equipment exchange boards (the one here is great) for a good deal on either a preban lower or a complete rifle. If you go with the complete rifle, just yank the old upper off and post it for sale on those same boards. It may take a day, it may take two weeks but it will sell.

To add to a couple of things. I would definetely go with Bushmaster or Olympic (Bushmaster is the best bet if you can find a good deal on one).

If you go Colt on the lower and you don't know what you're looking for you could end up with one with large holes, or without the lower rec. improvements.

Also, I'd second the suggestion of the 14.5" upper with perm. attatched flash hider.

On the upper receiver, I'd go Bushmaster for sure. If I'm not mistaked they're the only company that are offering chrome lined chambers AND barrels. A must on an AR if you ask me. I have heard that Rock River Arms is starting to do this for a decent price now too, and their uppers are pretty nice too.

Good luck, and hope this helps.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 8:45:59 AM EDT
Built my M4gery on a preban Pre-Amalite Eagle Arms lower and a Bushy M4 flat top upper with 14.5" barrel and A2 FH. Quality of upper/lower is excellent and matches perfectly. Spent about $900 on the lower and $475 on the upper. I had a Colt AR-15 lower but sold it because I didn't like using that stupid adapter screw-pin, the grey color and the slab side look. Good luck on your project.

Deuce01
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 2:20:37 PM EDT
OK kinda off topic but the race dialog here reminds me of the scene between Christopher Walken and Dennis Hopper in True Romance!

...So you see all Sicilians are....!

Classic scene!
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 4:55:29 PM EDT
I actually just went through all this myself.

Here's what I did and why.

I wanted a dark, fenced pre-ban lower b/c I wanted to mate it with a Bushmaster. I used a PWA lower that I bought off of a guy on the boards. It was $950. All itnernals were good--DPMS or Bushmaster all the way. I slapped on a 16" Bushmaster upper. My thought was that I wanted the option of removing the flash hider if I ever wanted to put on a flip-up front sight. I don't know how easy that it is to do with the permanently attached flash hider. As for the bayonet I'm a little sad about it, but I'll live. I got a flat-top b/c I'm a big believer in optics, particularly for CQB. I've got an ARMS 40 BUIS and an Eotech 511 mounted on the rail.

I'm really happy with the set up and all in I'm only down about $1800, and that's including BUIS and Optics. The color match is perfect, which is somewhat important for an aesthete like myself.

Oh, and I'm half Sicilian. hock.gif
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 5:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Publius:
The color match is perfect, which is somewhat important for an aesthete like myself.




How do I check for this?

I've decided on getting a Bushmaster 14.5 with the suggested flash suppressor.

So now I just need to decide on a lower to look for.
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 5:40:33 PM EDT
Go Bushy all the way... You'll not be sorry... I pondered a while and finally did it... Cost a bit but it's super nice and has everything... Just fired it for the first time today... Sold as complete by Bushy just before the ban, 141/2 BBl With Vortex, bearcoated, 6 position Bushy collapsable... It's sweet... Wish I knew how to do the pic thing, I'd show Ya... Snake... PS My wife just got a NIB Eagle pre-ban and it's also a beaut...
Link Posted: 4/27/2002 7:28:45 PM EDT
How about this folks?

New Bushmaster 14.5in A2Upper Reciever: $535.00
Bushmaster
Installed Phantom Flash Suppressor: $34.95
Armalite Pre-ban 3-Posit Stock: $75.00
=$644.95
Plus whatever lower I can get.

What changes should be made?
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 2:10:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2002 2:10:33 PM EDT by BAT211]

Originally Posted By Spade:
How about this folks?

New Bushmaster 14.5in A2Upper Reciever: $535.00
Bushmaster
Installed Phantom Flash Suppressor: $34.95
Armalite Pre-ban 3-Posit Stock: $75.00
=$644.95



Blowing away some terrorist scumbag,

Priceless..
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 2:57:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 5:24:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2002 5:29:41 PM EDT by 455SD]
I would recommend checking with Winston Wolf before starting this www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=112529

I would hate to see you spend all your money just to have your barrel fail.
Link Posted: 4/28/2002 6:11:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
How about this folks?

New Bushmaster 14.5in A2Upper Reciever: $535.00
Bushmaster
Installed Phantom Flash Suppressor: $34.95
Armalite Pre-ban 3-Posit Stock: $75.00
=$644.95
Plus whatever lower I can get.

What changes should be made?




One thing here. I think you can get a M4 upper cheaper than that. Check Gun Smoke Enterprises. They're out now, but I hear they've got more comeing in. For that matter you should be able to find one on the sale boards for much less than $535.

Not to knock the three position stock. But if you haven't already, take a look at the RRA 6 position stock. They're rugged, look good, and more adaptable.

Also, in general I wouldn't pay more than $650-$700 for an Olympic. And no more than $950 for a Bushmaster, Eagle Arms, or Colt.

To be honest, even though I like my Olympic, I'd go Bushmaster and shell out the extra bucks if you can afford it.
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 10:31:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
]


One thing here. I think you can get a M4 upper cheaper than that. Check Gun Smoke Enterprises. They're out now, but I hear they've got more comeing in. For that matter you should be able to find one on the sale boards for much less than $535.



100 bucks cheaper at Gun Smoke. I like that.
I like that A3 flash suppressor at Kurt's that TylerDurdan posted about. Will Gun Smoke slap one on a M4 upper for me if I send it to them?

I'll look at those 6 position stocks.
Are all CAR stocks created equal? Whose should I stay away from?
Link Posted: 4/29/2002 3:10:27 PM EDT
You may want to call, but I think that Gun Smoke will slap one on for you no problem.

As far as the stocks go, there are a few different options. You can get the Colt three postition stocks (which cost a bit), cheap three position stocks, and I think even four position stocks.

It is a matter of personal taste to some degree. Shop around, but I wouldn't got too cheap on one. You can really tell the difference on the cheap ones. The're not worth saveing a few bucks. The RRA 6 position is about $75 (gunsmoke has these as well), and the Colt three position hovers around $115 last I checked.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 1:33:42 PM EDT
I don't know how you'd check it before. Just know that the Busy tends to be darker in color. Thus, some of the early slab-side colt lowers will appear noticably grey. I think the PWAs tend to run blacker, and perhaps some other brands as well. Another option is to have the lower refinished to match the upper when you get it by a competent gunsmith, but that will cost $100. And one more option is to buy a Bushy or late model Colt lower. Just look on gunbroker and other sites and confirm that the color is really dark.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 3:35:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Publius:
I think the PWAs tend to run blacker, and perhaps some other brands as well.



What is PWA anyway?

Right now I'm focusing on a Bushy lower although I won't have the cash for it until June. Everybody seems to like Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 7:55:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
How about this folks?

New Bushmaster 14.5in A2Upper Reciever: $535.00
Bushmaster
Installed Phantom Flash Suppressor: $34.95
Armalite Pre-ban 3-Posit Stock: $75.00
=$644.95
Plus whatever lower I can get.

What changes should be made?



You forgot the $200 tax stamp for that 14.5in barrel...
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 8:17:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

You forgot the $200 tax stamp for that 14.5in barrel...




Not with that 2+ inch flash suppressor on there.


Right?
Link Posted: 4/30/2002 10:06:57 PM EDT
Bushmaster 14.5" M4 with permanently attached Vortex ends up being about 16.2", thus legal.

Link Posted: 5/1/2002 8:58:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By trs76:
Bushmaster 14.5" M4 with permanently attached Vortex ends up being about 16.2", thus legal.





Does it have to be permanently attached?
Link Posted: 5/1/2002 10:31:45 AM EDT
Spade, it does have to be permanent on the 14.5 style, unless you pay the short-barreled rifle tax-stamp. That's why I went with the 16" which is about 16 and 3/4 inches with the flash hider. Plus, the hider can be removed if you want to switch out the front post with a different style, such as a flip-up front sight. I think for the .5 inches, it's not worth the hassle. Moreover, the extra barrel length will slightly improve velocity.
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