Anyone here have any practical experience with a percussion Sharps?  I'm thinking of getting one and would like to know the good and bad of the system.

Are you speaking of the Berdan Sharps?

I think we are talking about the same thing. I'm looking at the 1859 or 1863 cavalry models currently on the market.

Had a .54 Sile Sharps back in the 80's before it was stolen. They load from the breech so no issues with fouling making front stuffing difficult.  You can load them with ball and powder or make paper cartridges.  Use musket caps.  they are a hoot to shoot and pretty accurate.  You will need to buy bullets from Dixie or other purveyor or learn to cast.  Use real black powder  (FFg) for best results.  Easy to clean from the breech with hot water.  Been looking for a good used one for a while.  I believe Pederosolii makes them.

I had one, didnt like it all that much to be honest.

Got the nitrated papers and all that from Dixie and made some cartridges.

But most of the time I just used a 535 ball, followed by about 40 grains of cornmeal, then 60 grains of FFG.  

I was concerned with the powder detonating vice burning, perhaps unfounded.

I have read online about the Italian copies fouling badly because they changed the sealing system for ease of machining. Anyone have experience with this?

I can't speak to that specifically but I have been interested in the '59 for a while, and an acquaintance of mine who is fairly knowledgeable about the topic told me that I would never regret buying a Shiloh.  I don't think they make the 59 anymore, so Pendersoli is the only ones that do.  Gas seal can be a problem, and dangerous if it gets bad enough.

had one With that issue, pedersoli  this was in the early 2000s,


sold the gun, it was a hoot to shoot and I liked it, but the chamber sleaze fouling was a nightmare, I have heard the issue was fixed as of 2010 , but I'm not 100% on it
Shiloh makes two percussion models

an "infantry" model
and the cavalry carbine

they are spendy, BUT, they are American made and the quality is truly something to behold, had a range buddy back in NH that owned several Shiloh guns

(dude was single shot freak) and they are some of the loveliest guns you've ever seen

I've had an 1859 Sharps Berdan Replica since the mid 1990's and it's great fun to shoot.  It's an Armi Sport, so it's probably near the bottom of the quality ladder relative to Pedersolis and Shilohs, but the quality is still excellent, with great case hardening, well polished metal work and plain but nice walnut furniture  - and it shoots well.  

The 1859 sharps uses a floating plate and sleeve to seal the breech.  The plate assembly sits very snugly in the breech block (as in you have to pry it out slowly with side to side motions using relief cuts on each side to remove it from the block) and has more area to the rear than to the front.  That basically means that as pressure rises on firing, the pressure forces the chamber plate forward against the chamber sleeve due to the greater area in the rear of the chamber in the breech block.  The plate is already closely fit to the sleeve, so when the plate is forced forward, the seal is quite effective - provided the plate is not excessively worn.  The chamber sleeve is also a close fit to the barrel but does slide in and out. On firing the plate is forced forward into contact with it, and it in turn is forced out to the barrel sealing the chamber.





It's actually an impressive piece of engineering and a very creative solution to sealing the breech.  Now, it is also highly pressure dependent as it's the pressure in the chamber in the breech block behind the plate that provides the force needed for an effective seal.  Consequently, I suspect that people who are less than happy with it have either run it dirty, scored or scratched the plate (although it is very hard) and in some way compromised the seal  or, far more likely,  have used a reduced load that does not generate enough pressure to fully seal the system.  Less is not more in this case, and if you're using cornmeal to take up space to allow less powder, you're going to quickly encounter a point of diminishing returns where you'll get gas escaping from the breech due to low pressure.  The bad news here is that can cause gas cutting of the sleeve or plate and reduce the effectiveness of the sleeve and plate due to the damage to the surfaces.  It was designed with a specific full chamber charge in mind, so use it.

I tend to be a clean freak and keep the plate clean and ensure that neither the plate nor the sleeve get rusted to the block or barrel. Which means gently removing the breech plate at  each cleaning to clean and oil the mating surfaces inside of the block and on the plate - and sliding the sleeve out a bit to wipe it off and lubricate it. Opinions may vary on this approach, and no doubt someone will disagree with me - but it's worked for me for almost 20 years with minimal plate wear and solid sealing, so I'm not likely to change my point of view on it.  You can work the sleeve all the way out, but there is just barely clearance in the action to do it, so I've only done that once shortly after i got the rifle. sliding it out a half inch or so and cleaning/lubing that section seems to work.  I flush the bore and chamber area with very hot water (as hot as the water heater will produce at the tap) long enough to heat the entire metal work to that temp, then let it dry and oil it.  Sliding the sleeve back and forth in this process leaves very little of it that is not rinsed and I've never had fouling issues with it.      

In terms of cartridges, you have several options:

1) brass cases designed to be used with stepped or ring tailed bullets.  These basically hold the bullet and powder and allow ignition through a hole in the base.

Brass cases

2) make traditional military nitrated paper (flash paper) cases.  This involves forming a case around a suitable diameter dowel or piece of brass rod or tubing. (I use brass tube). Basically you take a properly sized rectangle of paper and form a tube around the dowel or tube using glue (I just use a regular glue stick.I make one and slide it down the tube and make the next one, by the time I've made 4 or 5 and tube is full, the first one is fully dry and can be slid off the end. The next step is to apply some glue around the bottom inside edge of the paper tube and then press a suitable sized square of paper down through the tube with a slightly smaller dowel.  You want just enough clearance for the paper so it is forced snug up against the tube when it contacts the glue at the bottom.  The result is a nitrated paper cylinder open on one end that you then fill with the powder charge and either tie the case onto a ring tailed bullet,

Ring tailed bullet

or apply a bit of glue and insert a stepped bullet into the paper case.  

stepped bullet mold

The proper case length with this approach is just flush with the rear of the chamber.  The flash will come through the flash hole in the center of the plate and ignite the flash paper and charge.  

3) make slightly different folded nitrated paper cases.  You'll use the same brass tube here but use a trapezoidal piece of paper to form a longer and stronger tube.  You then insert the bullet in the end, then add powder from the back end.  You determine the charge by trial and error to get just enough so the resulting case length is just longer than the chamber.  The  rear of the paper case is cut off by the breech plate (which is sharp on the upper surface for this reason).   Once the powder is added you press it down with your fingers and press one side of the extra case length over the back of the powder



then fold each side of the extra case material across so the sides over lap each other



then finally fold that resulting tail across the back of the case and slightly up the side of the case, where you secure it with a small bit of glue if you prefer.  



The end result is quite durable  and hold up well in a cartridge tin.



The end of the case extends past the breech plate and is snipped off when you close the breech.



4) use a loading tube.  These are normally plastic and hold the bullet by friction and allow you to use a plunger to insert the bullet and charge into the chamber before closing the breech.  I've ever used one, so I can't comment on how well it works.

2a) and 3a) - make paper cases out of thin paper - cigarette paper, news print, etc.  It's not combustable and not as durable, but it's quick and easy and seems to work for many people.

----

Nitrated paper It can be purchased but it's about $3 per 8 1/2x11 sheet so it's not cheap.  It is easy, if a little time consuming to make with suitable linen based paper and potassium permanganate from a drug store.  (They'll ask what you want it for.   Just make a warm solution with as much as you can dissolve in it, then soak the paper.  I precut the paper using a metal template and an exacto knife then soak it and let it dry on a frame with non metallic window screen.   You can air dry it, or do it on the oven on "warm".

The actual size of the cartridge paper and template will vary with bullet diameter and chamber length (carbines generally have shorter chambers than rifles to accommodate a smaller charge and thus use a shorter cartridge.

----

Bullets.  Bullet diameter is key and you'll want to slug your bore and then find a suitable diameter bullet.  In the mid 1990's commercial options were bleak and even mold options were severely limited so I ended up having a custom mold made by Rapine.  Once they've tooled for a mold is no longer custom so the cost goes down and by now, just about anything anyone needs should be out there.  

----

Powder.  It's pretty much black powder or bust. Use a musket cap as you need all the fire you can get for reliable ignition.  The issue is that the flash goes down into the breech block, makes hard left turn to the center of the block before making another sharp turn up the center of the breech block to the powder. The problem also is that BP substitutes all have a higher ignition temp than black powder, so while you'll get near 100% reliability with black powder you'll be lucky to get 10% reliability with something like Pyrodex.  

-----

Cost. Currently the Armi Sport 1859s and 1859 Berdans are running $1150-$1300 so they are not cheap any more.  I paid around $450 for mine in 1995.   Thus there is some pretty serious commitment involved now in getting one just to try it out.  And there is a bit of work involved in assembling the proper components, bullets, etc, and that's part of the learning curve in shooting one.  But they are great fun to shoot and it's both different than anything else i've ever shot, and very rewarding.

You may be able to find one used and the used price would probably be half of new, or even less - but be very aware than they may not have been properly used, cleaned, treated, etc so be very thorough in your condition inspection, especially the bore, chamber sleeve, breech block and breech plate. On the other hand, you may find used rifles that were shot only a few times and stored by someone who did not like the bother or experience any success with it,  so if properly cleaned before storage they may be in superb near new condition.

^^^^^^

was hoping You'd show up

Thanks DakotaFal!! I have been very tempted by these. I will research the fix supposedly done on the Pedersoli but I'm thinking now I should wait and get a Shiloh or an original.

Very good write up!

I have one & I love it! It doesn't work well with "blanks"(War of Northern Aggression Re-enacting) but is a hoot to shoot "live rounds."
Hessian-1

Hessian, what part of Tn are you in? We should burn some powder if you are close.

I have one . It is a fun shooter . Not much more to add that the above poster laid out .
I pour loose powder over conical bullet sans paper cartridge .
It had a tang sight that was constantly getting in the way that was promptly removed .
A buckhorn rear sight was more to my liking .

Curious as to why the use of corn meal in a load for a Sharps rifle

Assuming it's 40 grains by volume it's so he doesn't have to load a full 100 grains of powder behind the bullet.

So that the entire chamber is filled with something, to avoid a powder detonation vice a controlled burn.

My  sharps chamber will hold only 70 grains . I have not ever tried a
corn meal method and wonder about velocities being inadaquet for the heavy .54 bullet .
The chamber does require a cleaning after 5 shots .
I have had issues with ignition and attribute with fouling in the cap channel not allowing spark .
A nice thing about the breech loading is easy removed of charge with miss fires.

I use a blow tube on my 1859 Sharps Berdan rifle, just like I do with my .45-70 1874 Sharps with black powder loads.

Took the big 54 out yesterday and one could get addicted to shooting that thing .
It is almost an artillery piece

If using brass cases, how do you get them out of the chamber? Or do they fall out if you tip the barrel up?

One aspect of these Sharps, and other breechloading percussion rifles, that some unfamiliar with the system need to realize:

Game departments do NOT consider these transitional models as true muzzleloaders. Some hunters have purchased them, thinking they will "legally circumvent" game laws regarding muzzleloaders, and been cited for using a non-muzzle-loading firearm during "primitive" hunting season.
And frankly, I believe they should be cited.
Allowing breech loading muzzleloaders employing percussion caps would certainly lead to modern versions with even greater advantages.
The muzzleloading season was created by states to allow "primitive" hunters -- using loose powder, lead projectiles and percussion caps -- to hunt without competing against modern, cartridge guns.
It was a good idea, and still is, but it's been rendered nearly moot by modern inlines with scopes, pellets, shotgun primers, sealed breeches to keep out moisture, sabots, laser sights, etc.
These Sharps, Smith, Burnside and other breechloading black powder rifles are fascinating, but if you buy one with the idea of using it during "primitive" muzzleloading hunting season, you'll be disappointed.

I have 3 flinters I hunt with, I want a percussion Sharps because the sheer fun of it.

Had an infantry one about 40 years ago, sold it to my brother.  Keep offering to buy it back.

I agree.  

But then I also feel that modern in-line muzzle loaders also violate the whole concept of "primitive", especially when scoped.

Agreed, when they started ofering extra tags in NY for muzzleloading, it brought out a lot of meat hunters who don't bother learning the guns and how to make them shoot consistently.  I would bet back then the ML hunters wounded more deer than the archers, yet the archers get the rap.