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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/1/2005 4:29:20 PM EDT
This year I am my company's armorer so tonight we had rifle issue for my battalion. During the lull I took some pics, though you all might enjoy them. We have around 1300 M14's in various states of demilitarization and 14 live select fire M14's. Springfield Armory, H&R, and Winchester and HRT are the makes we have. Sorry for the quality, they were taken with my camera phone, all I have.





More images to follow. Those red garbage cans are full of new in wrap USGI M14 mags that have been here since we got the rifles many years ago. We do not issue magazines for the weapons since they are only for drill and Army training purposes. The Service Center with the live weapons has their own stash of mags.

Steve
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:47:29 PM EDT
Glad to see some made it after hearing of their destruction in previous years.

Danny
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:58:44 PM EDT
Well, they sort of made it. The bolts are stripped and the firing pin slot is leaded, then there is a weld placed in the chamber. The receivers however are all intact. In the Arms room there was a brand new HRT complete bolt, no idea why it was in there since thats asking for trouble with those S4 idiots and there are no live weapons in that arms room.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:05:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
Well, they sort of made it. The bolts are stripped and the firing pin slot is leaded, then there is a weld placed in the chamber. The receivers however are all intact. In the Arms room there was a brand new HRT complete bolt, no idea why it was in there since thats asking for trouble with those S4 idiots and there are no live weapons in that arms room.



I'll take that off yours hands!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:43:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
We have around 1300 M14's in various states of demilitarization and 14 live select fire M14's.



Send'em all over to Smith Enterprise, Inc. and have them Crazy Horsed and then issue them to our troops.

Well, that's what I would do with them if given the chance
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:50:58 PM EDT
You do realise these are still US Government property rifles right? They do not belong to my school. The Army can take them back whenever they want. The mag thing bothered me however, especially when I hear about how our designated marksman are issued only 2 mags per M14 cuz thats all they can scrounge up and here we have thousands of them just sitting brand new in the wrap not opened once in the last 30 years. These rifles predate the students quite a bit...

Steve
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:03:23 PM EDT
We used to give the live fire M14s to the Navy ROTC Marines to play OPFOR during Army Leadership Lab. Pretty cool photos Steve! Now if we could only get the Cadets issued AR15s (rifles they will actually SEE & USE in the service)...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:47:48 PM EDT
Army gets these But thats only for the range and FTX's and such.

Here are some more.


NIW Mags


Broken stocks, both wooden and fiberglass


Steve
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:54:29 PM EDT
that last picture reminds me of when i was a kid,
Dad used to do repair the weapons at a bunch of military schools,
they used 03's for drill practice,
he would come home about 3 times a yeat with a load of broken up, once beautiful, walnut stocks that we would burn to start fires,,,,,,

if i had only known,,,,,,,
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:56:42 PM EDT
I recall when the Arms room was built. The rifles sat there for sometime before being issued, I had one for a short time my senior year. Each dorm room needed a rifle rack installed and policies set on use. It was a cluster in the beginning. I think it was a step in the right direction. It would be nice to be able to issue an M16 or similar. It would be an interesting task to prepare the lowers to prevent being fired yet function and break down appropriately for training.

Mike
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:03:45 PM EDT
Really? When was the Arms room built? This is the one in Goodyear. The 1903A3's and Enfields for the drill team are kept in another Arms Room in Gerard I believe, I've never been there though. I was asked to help rebuild their 03's last year by their armorer but I was too busy doing other things and was unable to do it, wish I could have though.

Steve
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:09:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VT_K9:
It would be an interesting task to prepare the lowers to prevent being fired yet function and break down appropriately for training.



Not directed at you VT_K9 but that kind of thinking from the Administration is what pisses me off.

Is Norwich training warriors or airsofters? When I was a Cadet we were not issued ANY rifles unless it was at Army Mil Lab or class. Yet when I was on annual training with my Guard unit I carried a fully functional M16A1 24/7 for two weeks as did every other soldier in my unit. Now if they can give 18 year old kids functional rifles for 2 weeks 24/7 why not 18-22 year olds that are training to be leaders? What we don't trust the Cadets?

I can understand not issuing NFA (3 position) lowers, but AR-15 lowers could be issues to resolve that issue and they take down the same as their M16 big brothers.

BTW if you really want to prevent use - weld the chamber and use a screw arrangement (like Colt used to use) and weld the screw in place. That would prevent swapping uppers and still allow field stripping via shotgunning the rifle.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:13:40 PM EDT
Cool pics, what are they going to do with all of those magazines?

And you should try to bring a better camera in there
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 2:42:59 AM EDT
I suppose if they really wanted to they could take M16's and do what Forest said as well as removing the bolt and leading it like they do with the M14's. I don't see that happening though, not untill the Army has a big supply of extra M16's. The Army Department has said for years they wish they could issue us the M16's year round but with only 300 M16's in the service center we just don't have enough for everyone. I think they should issue them out to contracted juniors since we are the ones preparing for camp, but if they do that then they fall short of having enough weapons for the other classes when they go to the range/FTX's etc..

Steve
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:56:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 4:57:39 AM EDT by H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
You do realise these are still US Government property rifles right?



Yeah, I knew that going in
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:22:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
I don't see that happening though, not untill the Army has a big supply of extra M16's.


The Army has a HUGE supply of M16s - M16A1s. They give them out to 3rd world countries and police departmetns (for $1 ea IIRC). For a drill rifle (as your M14s are) they would work plenty fine.

An arms room in Goodyear? I wish we had one when I lived there. I suspect it's one of the basement rooms with no windows? The ones they used to use for storage?


I think they should issue them out to contracted juniors since we are the ones preparing for camp, but if they do that then they fall short of having enough weapons for the other classes when they go to the range/FTX's etc..

Hmm some colleges require you to buy a particular PC. I wonder if Norwich could add that contracted Juniors and Seniors are required to have a Bushmaster M16A2 type rifle.. Now that would be cool.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:43:06 AM EDT
My alma mater issues M14s, as well. Well over 2,000, all makes. They sit in open rifle racks, two to a room.

Bolts were missing firing pins and springs, but fully functional. Drill weapons, but for FTX's, they issued mags and firing pins.

Did you know an M1a firing pins is a drop in?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:46:27 AM EDT
They lead the bolts on our rifles, so you can't just drop firing pins in them, i guess years ago someone decided to do just that, and took pot shots at the train Or so the story goes lol. We have M16's for Army FTX's, the Corps doesn't train with them since they have M14's for that type of stuff and let the ROTC branches do FTX training. An Air Force or Navy cadet will never handle an M16 at Norwich.

As much as I'd like to have my own M16 rifle here, this place is expensive enough and wastes enough of our money on stupid crap, I would rather my tuition not jump up yet again a coupel grand and stay with the way things are. Now if the Army department could get more M16's so every Army cadet could be issued a weapon for every Mil Lab, that would be another matter. Getting our M60's or even new 240's or 249's would also be nice but our MTOE needs to change before we can do that.

One thing I'll give you guys at VMI and Citadel is state funding, you guys get all sorts of cool shit down there. 203's, M60's, doesn't one of them have their own UH-1 Huey? We are purely private so we get what we can, kinda sad since it's the oldest private military university in the nation.

Steve
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:04:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 11:28:11 AM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
They lead the bolts on our rifles, so you can't just drop firing pins in them, i guess years ago someone decided to do just that, and took pot shots at the train


Not as bad as the guy in the early 80's that shot a couple of home made projectiles out of one of the 75mm Pack Howitzers at the train . I swear the Cadets think the train is their personal moving target system . Stuff always goes on, and always will - The administration shouldn't assume every Cadet is an idiot just because a few are F&*K-Ups.


An Air Force or Navy cadet will never handle an M16 at Norwich.

The Air Force guys got REAL FRISBEEs though so you better watch out


Getting our M60's or even new 240's or 249's would also be nice but our MTOE needs to change before we can do that.
There are no more M-60s in the Army Depts Inventory? We had 1 or 2 in the 1980s.


it's the oldest private military university in the nation.

OOOH RAH! Norwich, producing leaders since 1819
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:19:11 AM EDT
Yep, I'm a rook this year. I was issued an H&R M14 Serial Number 930619 with a shitty synthetic stock.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:28:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TrOoPeRcHiN_:
Yep, I'm a rook this year. I was issued an H&R M14 Serial Number 930619 with a shitty synthetic stock.



When you get home, we'll have to go out to the range.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:40:10 PM EDT
We lost the 60's last year. my class was the last to do the worm pits with the 60's shooting over us, tell ya what it's a damn memorable feeling to be 5 feet away from an M60's muzzle when it opens fire in you're general direction while carrying a 70 lb rock during the dog river... Thats a couple years ago when SSG T was Rct T and picked the biggest fucking rock I could find for some stupid reason

Back to the 60's, we lost them because when the old Army supply Sgt got transfered he dicked up the paperwork taking them off our MTOE and now the new guys are having trouble getting new MG's since according to our MTOE we don't "need" them. Instead the Army gave us a propane firing machine gun simulator.

As to Trooperchin, good luck, don't puss out as many of you're class and those before it have. Stick it out, you're in a very interesting time at Norwich right now with the Corps changing like it hasn't in years. Btw, Forest, when you gonna come up for an Alumni weekend ;)
Steve
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:06:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
Btw, Forest, when you gonna come up for an Alumni weekend ;)
Steve



I'm thinking next year. It would make for a nice getaway for my Wife's birthday. Now that I have kids it's not as easy as it used to be...
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:43:57 PM EDT
NUcadet07
I believe the Arms room in Goodyear was established around 1994, atleast that is when the alarm system was installed and I believe that was one of the requirements for NU to maintain the supply of M14. The arms room in Gerard was for Drill Team. They were housed in Gerard my Freshman Year. We never had the same building two years in a row. We even spent one year in the bottom of Patterson the first year civilian students were on the UP. What a fucking mess that was (try the first FU fight when a Civi used a Peavy AMP and directed it towards the corps). It will be nice when their dorms are complete.


Foret

It is not a matter or trust when it comes to issuing a functional rifle. This is also a college environment and for such a "dry" campus we all know and understand alcohol will not play a role in choices the majority of cadets, but it is also creative thinking of many that will attract the trouble. During my time there the lack of relative military training and idle time would provide much time to put a gun to use that is all but welded. I was very happy to see the M14s issued, it was just late in my time there. The other concern is theft. I hve investigated numerous theft complaints at NU and a theft of a rifle, especially functional, would have a very negative effect. I agree the majority of the Cadets are there for the right reason, but the actions of a few punish the majority.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:20:47 PM EDT
VT K9,
You're dead on. The lack of Corps level military training is the problem. They teach D&C, thats about it. Maybe some basic battle drills depending on you're cadre freshman year. After that you get pretty much zero military training and upperclassmen have alot of time with nothing to do.

For the most part we have good people here, but as with any large group there are the bad apples, and when it comes to machine guns in a college environment... yeah, I'd rather not consider that to be honest. I like the idea of what the Citadel does but the truth is that the way Norwich works there is really no need for us to have live M14's, they are decorations and nothing more. Training aids on occasion for the Army ROTC cadets when we have Mil Lab, for live fire we train on the M16A2 or use the EST small arms simulator. I honestly don't really see a problem with the way we do things here except the lack of maintenance on them. I think we should all be issued wooden stocks and a bottle of linseed oil and have to maintain the weapon.

Some of the weapons I had to issue out this year would make you cringe, mine being one of them! I keep my rifle immaculate during the year, once I turned it in though, damn thing had a nice red coat of surface rust all over it so today after class and prior to parade I cleaned it up so it would look decent but more so I wouldn't get rust stains on my Summer B white shirt. Also brough a decent wooden stock I had layin around at home and started refinishing so I threw that on, I like it alot more for parade use and I will use my issue fiberglass stock for Army training.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:22:20 PM EDT
Forest,
you make it up here next year you be sure and and let me know, I'll be a senior then and god willing in my last year but I may be stuck as a super senior

Steve
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:39:49 PM EDT
if i would have accepted the ROTC scholarship there i would be doing the same thing ide be doing here in Kuwait... Arms room
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