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Posted: 7/14/2015 4:09:24 AM EDT
Of all the major safe manufacturers, we don't seem to see much here regarding Champion/Superior/Safe Guard. Is that because they aren't as strong in the market as I thought or is it because they aren't making a good product? I don't own a Superior but I do like the line's aesthetics especially the double and triple step doors.
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Posted: 7/14/2015 10:05:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Champion. Aren't they the ones that were raided and fined for having all the illegals working there? And then the owner got pissed because he was fined, and moved a big chunk of his operations to his "Mexican facility". Then one of their safes was shipped to a customer here in the US, it was filled with weed, and it turned out that the "Mexican facility" was staffed with Mexican prisoners? Or something like that. Seems legit from a security standpoint.
I think they're being really innovative with those door steps. Cutting edge stuff. 
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Posted: 7/14/2015 3:12:27 PM EDT
[#2]
So the choice is a safe made in Mexico by Mexicans or a safe made in Utah by Mexicans?
I'm more interested in the stepped door. Does it provide a real benefit to security and an increase in fire protection or is it markrting hype on an RSC? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 3:22:54 PM EDT
[#3]
So the choice is a safe made in Mexico by Mexicans or a safe made in Utah by Mexicans? I think most would be surprised with how much of their "American" safes aren't American at all. I'm more interested in the stepped door. Does it provide a real benefit to security and an increase in fire protection or is it markrting hype on an RSC? No real security benefit in modern times, and no real increase in fire protection. From a fire standpoint, the stepped doors and other "shaped" doors were designed to seal the safe to prevent heat/fire/smoke/water to penetrate to the interior. Today we have heat activated expanding seals that do the same thing. Shaped doors are still somewhat common on real fire rated safes. |
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Posted: 7/14/2015 7:03:16 PM EDT
[#4]
I just bought a Safe Guard GS-31 and I really like it. It was recommended to me by the dealer I bought it from given the budget I had to work with.
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Posted: 7/15/2015 9:17:55 AM EDT
[#5]
IIRC, pretty sure Champion has 2 lines.
The lower grade stuff is steel from america, shipped to mexico, assembled, and shipped back. The higher end stuff is all american made (by whom I can't say, but at least it happens in the US). I've seen the low end (500-800$) range safes at Turner's Outdoosman. Nice finish, nice interior, and seems to be built well with steel plate doors and active bolts all around. Their more expensive safes have an even better fit/finish from what I've seen in-store. |
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Posted: 7/16/2015 5:45:56 AM EDT
[#6]
I have a Superior Supreme 55, very nice quality, 7 gauge steel body, and 1/2 inch thick steel door. The triple step door does have 3 heat activated seals, one for each step, and is also designed to prevent prying from going very far. The door bolts are 1 1/2 inches.
I bought this when it was Superior's biggest and best safe, now they have some slightly bigger options. |
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Posted: 7/16/2015 6:17:35 PM EDT
[#7]
The old "Stepped Door" designs had a purpose in the old days of cowboys and into the early 20th century.
These safes were hand crafted to fit together very tightly, with very close tolerance door gaps. Door and Body frames are constructed from layer upon layer of tightly fitted steel plates, usually constructed from a really badass metal known as Mangalloy, or Hadfield Steel after the inventor. Mangalloy is a highly Manganese enriched carbon steel (13-15%) that presented one of the hardest metals known at the time (mid-1800's). This steel is highly abrasion resistant, and when you try to bend or impose high impact, it work-hardens to extraordinary levels.It was developed for use in earth moving equipment and other abusive environments. These unique properties made it highly desirable to make high security safes that were Dynamite and Nitro-Glycerine blast resistant boxes. The close tolerance door layer fitting prevented an adequate volume of nitro-glycerine from collecting in the door closure gaps to minimize the blast effectiveness. For liquid explosives to work best, they needed to be injected into the door gaps. If the gaps were very tight, very little nitro could be placed in that zone. This, coupled with the extraordinary metallurgical properties of Mangalloy was about as good as it could get. This technique later gave way to the easier-to-manufacture Round Door Safes (one example is the "Cannon Ball") and big walk-thru Bank Vault Doors, where a turned machined surface was much easier to provide the ultra tight fit necessary to provide nitro joint infusion resistance. This is why you see the older mammoth vault doors were made to be round, not square. The old Cannon Ball safes were a monolithic one-piece cast ball of Mangalloy, usually placed on a pedestal, and fitted with a round door. These things were nearly impossible to open until modern high speed power drills and carbide drill bits came along. Today, high-tech plastic and nitro explosives are so closely controlled that there is little concern for them being used any more by thieves. The explosion resistant UL TXTL safe ratings are all but forgotten in the market today, and I don't think anyone has a current active TXTL listing any more. When explosives are (very rarely) used today, there is a different approach that is far more effective, and very dangerous to use. AMSEC used Mangalloy, trade name Manganal, in TL-30 doors into the late 80's. Alas, the cost became prohibitive and thicker AR400 and AR500 plates served as well in the UL test labs, so Manganal was abandoned going into the newly implemented 1994 retest cycle and doesn't appear any more in safes today. AMSEC was founded on the Round Door safe in 1945 by Gene Halls under the name Star Safe and Alarm, and his designs are largely still produced today as the Star Lift-Out Door. AMSEC TL15 and TL30 Round Doors were produced until the UL retest program forced us to limit the number of safe listings due to the extraordinary cost of testing. So, now you know how the stepped door came to be, and where it lead in safe evolution. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 4:31:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the history lesson, TSG.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 4:33:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just bought a Safe Guard GS-31 and I really like it. It was recommended to me by the dealer I bought it from given the budget I had to work with. How's the construction of the GS-31? Fully welded body? Active bolts on both sides (and top & bottom) of door? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 4:40:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How's the construction of the GS-31? Fully welded body? Active bolts on both sides (and top & bottom) of door? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Never mind. I see this info posted on the Safeguard website. Probably a nice RSC for the money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 9:13:23 AM EDT
[#11]
I think the definition of "fully welded body" should be kept in context as well. Many gun safes are using folded sheet steel, so the only welding required is where the open ends meet. On a safe using plate steel, each side is usually welded to the other. In this case, it doesn't need to be fully welded. The heavier steel is plenty capable of resisting prying force, and stitch welding is more than suitable. Even the modular vault at your local bank is stitch welded.
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Posted: 7/17/2015 8:50:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never mind. I see this info posted on the Safeguard website. Probably a nice RSC for the money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How's the construction of the GS-31? Fully welded body? Active bolts on both sides (and top & bottom) of door? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Never mind. I see this info posted on the Safeguard website. Probably a nice RSC for the money. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile For the money I'm really happy with it, I paid $1000. Sure there are other safes out there that are nicer and have more features but I was working with a tight budget. 
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Posted: 7/17/2015 9:10:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Am I missing something, it is a garden variety RSC.
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Posted: 7/17/2015 10:55:10 PM EDT
[#14]
I just love that hammer-tone finish. Wish we could shoot that Zolatone in California. Frikkin Eco-natzie government here won't let us use anything you can't drink. If you only knew how much more we have to spend on good quality paints with ultra-low VOCs, it's murder.
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Posted: 7/18/2015 8:54:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just love that hammer-tone finish. Wish we could shoot that Zolatone in California. Frikkin Eco-natzie government here won't let us use anything you can't drink. If you only knew how much more we have to spend on good quality paints with ultra-low VOCs, it's murder. Why not move to a more business-friendly state? How's AZ for paint restrictions? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/18/2015 8:59:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the money I'm really happy with it, I paid $1000. Sure there are other safes out there that are nicer and have more features but I was working with a tight budget. http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af62/ARshooter1/Mobile%20Uploads/980FE6E3-2738-4B3C-BAF8-464643A18BE7_zps57bvpuoy.jpg http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af62/ARshooter1/Mobile%20Uploads/5707BE27-5C44-4E16-A3BC-85E794D16AD2_zpspl4l45pe.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How's the construction of the GS-31? Fully welded body? Active bolts on both sides (and top & bottom) of door? Never mind. I see this info posted on the Safeguard website. Probably a nice RSC for the money. For the money I'm really happy with it, I paid $1000. Sure there are other safes out there that are nicer and have more features but I was working with a tight budget. http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af62/ARshooter1/Mobile%20Uploads/980FE6E3-2738-4B3C-BAF8-464643A18BE7_zps57bvpuoy.jpg http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af62/ARshooter1/Mobile%20Uploads/5707BE27-5C44-4E16-A3BC-85E794D16AD2_zpspl4l45pe.jpg Looks like a decent product for the price paid. Arguably better than a Chinese Cannon or similar safe from Tractor Supply, Costco, etc. I think as long as the safe is too heavy for a couple dudes to carry off and the door is secure enough to keep a crackhead with a hammer and prybar out you've spent wisely. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/18/2015 11:04:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I missing something, it is a garden variety RSC. I don't think your missing anything. The question was asked about this specific family of safe companies that are all owned by the same person. Just giving my personal opinion of one of their product lines that I happen to own. You're right though, my example is a pretty basic RSC, nothing really to special about it. |
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Posted: 7/20/2015 5:30:38 AM EDT
[#18]
So who else besides Superior is using a stepped door design? I see Sportsman's Steel doing the same on some of their safes.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/20/2015 7:01:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Wouldn't recommend sportsmans steel, there are tons of complaints about them. Vault Pro uses them, I believe Sun Welding will do one if you have something custom made.
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Posted: 7/23/2015 4:35:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Between Champion and Superior, I'd get the Superior due to the external hinges allowing the door to open 180 degrees.
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Posted: 7/27/2015 7:02:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Between Champion and Superior, I'd get the Superior due to the external hinges allowing the door to open 180 degrees. Only regrets I have with my two Champion safes. External hinges would be much better. I have a Trophy 33 and what ever number the biggest Trophy is. |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#22]
I've got a 2001 Champion Triumph 35 with a S&G mechanical lock, and have no complaints. Fit and finish is good, paint job and interior is nice. Good for 1300 degrees for 60 minutes. Being that the fire department is less than a mile away, things shouldn't have a chance to get that hot for that long. Back when I bought it, it had a good amount of features that I was looking for, and at a price point that I could afford and was willing to pay.
I would buy one again if the quality and features are still sound. I just paid the house off, so there might be some new additions to the family in the near future, requiring another safe.
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