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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:15:05 AM EST
I've been doing a little research on AUGs for the past few days and I just had a few questions.

Yesterday I shouldered my first AUG, it was an MSAR (not sure about which model, it was about $2000 though), and wow, it felt GREAT!

I was very impressed how great it felt... I really think I want one...

So I was researching Steyr vs MSAR and I came across some guy named Dave who left MSAR and now everyone is a bit shaken up by it...

So if I got the MSAR, would it still be a good choice? or should I go with the Steyr?

Is the E4 better than the STG?

any help would be great! I think I like the idea of them taking AR15 mags... but if there is a great model/company out there that yall would recommend,

please do not hesitate to do so... Thanks so much

Jack
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 9:37:32 AM EST
There's 9 pages of answers to your questions here, plus the archives. You'll pretty much have to make up your own mind on most of that.
I think the majority of us will agree that $2k is to much to pay for any MSAR. CDNN recently had STGs for $1K. $2K is going price for a Steyr.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 9:55:52 AM EST
If you were looking at 2000 for a MSAR it was probably bought by your funshop before the huge price drop. Today new STGs go for 1000-1100 and new E4 (takes AR mags) go for 1350-1500. A new AUG A3 is going to put you back 1800-2100.

MSAR the company is going through some rough times. But people have been getting support from them through their RA process on their website. Ratworx does a really good job supporting the MSAR rifles as well.

Steyr is in a production halt due to a problem with Sabre Defense. PJs does a really good job supporting Steyr AUGs.


I own an E4 and a STG stock. I am very happy with the performance of my rifle.

Aftermarket parts for the AUG platform is picking up, many by members here.

Happy hunting for information.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 9:55:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2011 9:58:42 AM EST by SilentType]
Honestly, I smell a troll. If you know who Dave is something tells me you should know the differences between the MSAR and Steyr.

If you honestly don't:

The biggest difference really between the A3 and the STG-556 is that outside of the 16" barrels there were never any other USA made barrels made in different length. The barrel is also part of the parts count under 18 USC 922r.

The biggest difference between the A3 and the E4 is that the E4 takes STANAG mags whereas the A3 with the Steyr Stock can take STANAG mags, but looses its bolt release lever feature on the stock.

The advantage to the E4 over is the STG 556 is the STANAG mag feature and the rear flank rails make it a bit easier to run a wider variety of single point slings.

The biggest issue with the MSAR are that some of the black colored nitrided bolts were improperly heat treated leading to nitrogen embrittlement.

The casting is more rough on the MSAR bolt carrier and slightly more rough with the MSAR receiver.

The barrels of the MSAR and A3 are both button rifled, but the honing of the A3 barrels are more consistent in quality.

IMHO the bolt sleeve design of the MSAR is an improvement over the bolt sleeve design of the A3. The bolt sleeve of both is your most likely part to need replacement during service of the rifle.

Currently there are more accessories available for the MSAR rifles, because frankly there is a larger market to support them with some 15,000 MSAR or more out in circulation so about 7 times as many as the A3.

Both are backed by customer service and warranties.

Obviously you're going to pay about $800-$1000 more for an A3 than an STG and about $400-$600 more for an A3 than an E4. Unless the MSAR rifle is an Gebirgjager or some limited edition rifle like the ones with the FNH made barrels I would do more shopping, because most are well under $2K.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 10:00:06 AM EST
Get an MSAR STG.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 11:39:55 AM EST
You will get as many opinions as you want here. I once owned a STG556 and a Steyr A3. I now own a Steyr A3. Didn't have any problems with the STG, but when you have them both sitting in your hands for awhile the Steyr just seems better made and a more serious tool, to me. So I sold the STG as I only needed one.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 12:16:23 PM EST
I'm very happy with my A3. I would get the Steyr
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 12:55:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2011 12:58:06 PM EST by JackTheRipper]
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Honestly, I smell a troll. If you know who Dave is something tells me you should know the differences between the MSAR and Steyr.

If you honestly don't:

The biggest difference really between the A3 and the STG-556 is that outside of the 16" barrels there were never any other USA made barrels made in different length. The barrel is also part of the parts count under 18 USC 922r.

The biggest difference between the A3 and the E4 is that the E4 takes STANAG mags whereas the A3 with the Steyr Stock can take STANAG mags, but looses its bolt release lever feature on the stock.

The advantage to the E4 over is the STG 556 is the STANAG mag feature and the rear flank rails make it a bit easier to run a wider variety of single point slings.

The biggest issue with the MSAR are that some of the black colored nitrided bolts were improperly heat treated leading to nitrogen embrittlement.

The casting is more rough on the MSAR bolt carrier and slightly more rough with the MSAR receiver.

The barrels of the MSAR and A3 are both button rifled, but the honing of the A3 barrels are more consistent in quality.

IMHO the bolt sleeve design of the MSAR is an improvement over the bolt sleeve design of the A3. The bolt sleeve of both is your most likely part to need replacement during service of the rifle.

Currently there are more accessories available for the MSAR rifles, because frankly there is a larger market to support them with some 15,000 MSAR or more out in circulation so about 7 times as many as the A3.

Both are backed by customer service and warranties.

Obviously you're going to pay about $800-$1000 more for an A3 than an STG and about $400-$600 more for an A3 than an E4. Unless the MSAR rifle is an Gebirgjager or some limited edition rifle like the ones with the FNH made barrels I would do more shopping, because most are well under $2K.


I'm gonna be honest here, I had never heard about AUG until I played with one in a video game (I know that sounds really childish or what not, but I'm comfortable with saying that because I'm being honest, and I do have many other very nice firearms and scopes and I have hunted my whole life, I simply have recently gotten interested in AR15s and for the past few days AUG...)

I just finished watching a review by nutnfancy when he was at the microtech booth in 2010 I believe... He was interviewing the son of the company... I am a frequent member of another forum and they recommended this forum for bullpup talk (isn't so much talk on thehighroad)... So I came here, browsed around, and decided to post... On the first page of this forum there is a locked thread that discusses some guy named Dave leaving... I posted my questions about Steyr and MSAR and just wanted to see what the Dave thing was all about, I have no clue about what happened or who he is other than he worked for microtech and their quality seemed to be better when he was there. I dunno if he retired/was fired/quit nothing... I simply didn't want to put down a few grand on a rifle and not be able to get it repaired if it needed it... I'm not a troll and I do appreciate the help I have received already from this post. I had no idea there was any animosity in this guy leaving or what not...

On their website they state in early 2011 to mid 2011 they are getting modular mcs, does anyone know anything about this? Should I wait to get this rifle?

thanks again and we don't ever have to discuss this guy again if it's going to cause any problems, I'm here just because I think the bullpup design is great and it felt awesome yesterday when I held the MSAR... (Plus I sorta like getting things that aren't quite mainstream, it's just how I am)



Link Posted: 3/13/2011 1:05:40 PM EST
Nobody has a problem Dave. He still posts here all the time and is one of the biggest resident bullpup fanatics we have, which is a compliment.

It's just the whole Coke vs. Pepsi thing get's old.

Link Posted: 3/13/2011 1:10:06 PM EST
Modular mcs thing has been "worked on" for awhile now, I wouldnt wait to be honest. The coke vs pepsi statement is hilarious though hahahaha you know alot about guns though so it shouldnt be too hard to figure out what you want, just do some more reading. really it kind of depends on how deep your pockets are.
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 2:51:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By SilentType:
Nobody has a problem Dave. He still posts here all the time and is one of the biggest resident bullpup fanatics we have, which is a compliment.

It's just the whole Coke vs. Pepsi thing get's old.


It really does... It really really does...

For the OP, I own an AUG A3, and I have been extraordinarily satisfied with it. I feel it is every bit the equal of the Colt ARs in my collection. It was definitely built to be a serious use gun...
Link Posted: 3/13/2011 6:22:53 PM EST
thanks for the responses.

The more research I do about MSAR, the more I really like them and want one...

But I have to say, there are a loooot of threads on various forums that say they are going through tough economic times...

sorta makes me real nervous to buy one.... I read a lot of guys are selling theirs because they fear they won't be able to get them repaired...

maybe I could get a nice used one ;-)?

still makes me uneasy ... seems like such a cool rifle...
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 3:56:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By JackTheRipper:
thanks for the responses.

The more research I do about MSAR, the more I really like them and want one...

But I have to say, there are a loooot of threads on various forums that say they are going through tough economic times...

sorta makes me real nervous to buy one.... I read a lot of guys are selling theirs because they fear they won't be able to get them repaired...

maybe I could get a nice used one ;-)?

still makes me uneasy ... seems like such a cool rifle...


This is the internet, JtR...hate and trolling will always outnoise the good reports.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 8:05:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 8:05:54 AM EST by SilentType]

Originally Posted By JackTheRipper:
thanks for the responses.

The more research I do about MSAR, the more I really like them and want one...

But I have to say, there are a loooot of threads on various forums that say they are going through tough economic times...

sorta makes me real nervous to buy one.... I read a lot of guys are selling theirs because they fear they won't be able to get them repaired...

maybe I could get a nice used one ;-)?

still makes me uneasy ... seems like such a cool rifle...


If it makes you feel any better people have been made to feel "uneasy" about MSAR since 2007 when the first STG hit the market. Hey, I'd stay away from their old XM magazines, but as far as the rifles go so far so good in terms of backing/support. I mean have people complained? Sure. Has MSAR made mistakes and had issues backing some of their products? You bet, but I can say that about a lot of companies out there right now.

I mean they're not Colt or FNH they're a new company really and hey in this economy even the big boys can be bought out or even go bankrupt. Future is impossible to tell, but what I like is that we can get most small parts pretty easily for it and there are about 15,000 MSAR rifles out there so love it or hate it MSAR rifles are going to be around and in circulation for a long time.

When you look at the MSAR rifles (Gas Piston, Quick Change-Toolless Barrels, Short without an NFA Tax) you get A LOT of rifle for what I think most here would agree is a VERY affordable price. I look at other rifles and new rifles all the time and so far I don't see any that I would want to replace my MSAR with right now. If something better comes along I'll buy it, but when I look at our negatives and compare to the negatives of other rifles I'm pretty happy with my MSAR.

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