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Posted: 5/27/2014 8:12:32 AM EDT
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought.
Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? thanks rick |
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Finding powders is tough these days. Ones that I have found lately:
IMR 4064--pretty slow for .223 but might work for heavier bullets. Ramshot TAC---never tried it, but heard wonderful things. Hodgdon CFE--same. I'm eager to try this one, if I can find it again. |
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Quoted: Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick |
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You don't need to buy two sets of dies. Get the set with the better seating die, Forster or Redding's are great.
You don't need small base or "AR" die sets, any will work. I don't recommend Lee's dies, they are cheap and you get what you pay for. 5.56mm vs. .223 is simply different pressure levels. The actual loaded ammo is identical to each other as far as dimensions are concerned. 5.56mm runs 5k to 6k higher psi. than .223. Work up to it or simply load at .223 pressures and don't worry about it. AR based rifles limit you to cartridge overall lengths that will fit in the magazine. I use 2.250" to allow for bullet to bullet variations. The actual maximum OAL is listed as 2.260". Unless you want to load each round by hand, inserting it directly into the chamber a single shot at a time, you are stuck with a maximum OAL of 2.260". Double check all of your reloads if you use 2.260" as your seating depth. Bullets do vary in length within each box and from lot to lot. High power competitors will load 75 to 80 grain bullets to an OAL out as long as 2.550" depending on their individual rifle's chamber for the 600 yard stage of NRA/CMP tournaments. This reduces their rifles to single shot only status. Hornady 75 grain bthp match bullets (not the 75 grain A-max), Nosler's 77 grain Custom Competition and Sierra's 77 grain Match Kings are the heaviest bullets that can be loaded to 2.260" maximum OAL and still feed and function in semi-auto. They are very accurate and worth a try provided you have a 1/8 or 1/7 twist barrel. If you have a 1/9 twist barrel they may not stabilize. Try Sierra's 69 grain Match King if you have a 1/9 twist barrel. They hammer too. Good Luck. |
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb |
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Don't rule out IMR 8208 XBR. It is my powder selection of the year. It meters well, will cover the MAP range you need, and is not temp. sensitive.
Don't try to do the "jump to lands" spacing thing with the 5.56 x 45mm or .223 ammo fitting into the AR15 / M16 NATO chamber. You will be disappointed. The 5.56 NATO military chamber was designed for a long free-bore, to jack up speed without going overboard on chamber pressure. The SAAMI .223 chamber has a shorter free-bore and the Wylde chamber is a compromise. Set up the bullet to neck engagement so that the mag feed limit of 2.260 COAL is not exceeded, or for the lighter, shorter, bullets so the 1 caliber engagement in the neck is maintained (usually ~2.20 COAL for 55 gr FMJBT). [ETA] Crimping is personal choice. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is a collet arrangement that will crimp down the neck to the bullet body, even without a cannelure. Roll crimping needs a cannelure. Comm'l ammo fabricators like Israel Military Industries (IMI) now use the FCD-like neck crimper, even in cannelured bullets. Do not try the combined seating / roll crimping single press stroke alluded to by the standard seating die instructions. The soft neck and shoulder of the AR15 brass case (annealed, as it should be) will not stand up to the ram down force of trying both operations on one stroke. |
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I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Quoted:
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. |
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Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. Quoted:
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? |
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and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? Quoted:
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? You sir, Have a LOT of 'homework' to do... 
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and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? Quoted:
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? Nvrmd |
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and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? <snip> Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? rcodyAR15, Please educate your self and don't use/listen to wherever you got your bad info from. Don't come in this forum and tell us we need to provide links to information that is common knowledge to many. I pointed you to the FAQ's which you didn't read. This thread is over. Do some research before you post again in this forum. dryflash3 |
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You don't need to buy two sets of dies. Get the set with the better seating die, Forster or Redding's are great. You don't need small base or "AR" die sets, any will work. I don't recommend Lee's dies, they are cheap and you get what you pay for. 5.56mm vs. .223 is simply different pressure levels. The actual loaded ammo is identical to each other as far as dimensions are concerned. 5.56mm runs 5k to 6k higher psi. than .223. Work up to it or simply load at .223 pressures and don't worry about it. AR based rifles limit you to cartridge overall lengths that will fit in the magazine. I use 2.250" to allow for bullet to bullet variations. The actual maximum OAL is listed as 2.260". Unless you want to load each round by hand, inserting it directly into the chamber a single shot at a time, you are stuck with a maximum OAL of 2.260". Double check all of your reloads if you use 2.260" as your seating depth. Bullets do vary in length within each box and from lot to lot. High power competitors will load 75 to 80 grain bullets to an OAL out as long as 2.550" depending on their individual rifle's chamber for the 600 yard stage of NRA/CMP tournaments. This reduces their rifles to single shot only status. Hornady 75 grain bthp match bullets (not the 75 grain A-max), Nosler's 77 grain Custom Competition and Sierra's 77 grain Match Kings are the heaviest bullets that can be loaded to 2.260" maximum OAL and still feed and function in semi-auto. They are very accurate and worth a try provided you have a 1/8 or 1/7 twist barrel. If you have a 1/9 twist barrel they may not stabilize. Try Sierra's 69 grain Match King if you have a 1/9 twist barrel. They hammer too. Good Luck. The only dies I have are Lee and they got me under MOA with the majority of my 308 loads during my first ladder test. As far as the Lee .223 dies, I will find out what they can do tomorrow when I shoot my first .223 loads  .
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rcodyAR15, I'm not sure if your trolling or truly lack the basics of understanding the difference between 223 and 5.56 that have been pointed out to you. Please educate your self and don't use/listen to wherever you got your bad info from. Don't come in this forum and tell us we need to provide links to information that is common knowledge to many. I pointed you to the FAQ's which you didn't read. This thread is over. Do some research before you post again in this forum. dryflash3 Quoted:
<snip>
Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? I'm not sure if your trolling or truly lack the basics of understanding the difference between 223 and 5.56 that have been pointed out to you. Please educate your self and don't use/listen to wherever you got your bad info from. Don't come in this forum and tell us we need to provide links to information that is common knowledge to many. I pointed you to the FAQ's which you didn't read. This thread is over. Do some research before you post again in this forum. dryflash3 Pressure[edit] C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[47] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications. Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[48] These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums. http://ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts.php I start with what is probably the most common myth, potentially the most dangerous, and the thing that you will probably swear up and down that I am wrong about. Bear with me. 5.56 and .223 are specified at the same pressure. That pressure is 55,000 PSI when measured using the SAAMI method. Most pressures you will encounter in the USA are based on the SAAMI method of measuring pressure. |
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Pressure[edit] C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[47] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications. Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[48] These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums. http://ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts.php I start with what is probably the most common myth, potentially the most dangerous, and the thing that you will probably swear up and down that I am wrong about. Bear with me. 5.56 and .223 are specified at the same pressure. That pressure is 55,000 PSI when measured using the SAAMI method. Most pressures you will encounter in the USA are based on the SAAMI method of measuring pressure. Quoted:
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Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? I'm not sure if your trolling or truly lack the basics of understanding the difference between 223 and 5.56 that have been pointed out to you. Please educate your self and don't use/listen to wherever you got your bad info from. Don't come in this forum and tell us we need to provide links to information that is common knowledge to many. I pointed you to the FAQ's which you didn't read. This thread is over. Do some research before you post again in this forum. dryflash3 Pressure[edit] C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[47] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications. Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[48] These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums. http://ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts.php I start with what is probably the most common myth, potentially the most dangerous, and the thing that you will probably swear up and down that I am wrong about. Bear with me. 5.56 and .223 are specified at the same pressure. That pressure is 55,000 PSI when measured using the SAAMI method. Most pressures you will encounter in the USA are based on the SAAMI method of measuring pressure. Then why do manufacturer's warn against the use of 5.56 mm ammo in .223 chambered rifles? |
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Then why do manufacturer's warn against the use of 5.56 mm ammo in .223 chambered rifles? Quoted:
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Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi. and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? I'm not sure if your trolling or truly lack the basics of understanding the difference between 223 and 5.56 that have been pointed out to you. Please educate your self and don't use/listen to wherever you got your bad info from. Don't come in this forum and tell us we need to provide links to information that is common knowledge to many. I pointed you to the FAQ's which you didn't read. This thread is over. Do some research before you post again in this forum. dryflash3 Pressure[edit] C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[47] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications. Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[48] These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums. http://ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts.php I start with what is probably the most common myth, potentially the most dangerous, and the thing that you will probably swear up and down that I am wrong about. Bear with me. 5.56 and .223 are specified at the same pressure. That pressure is 55,000 PSI when measured using the SAAMI method. Most pressures you will encounter in the USA are based on the SAAMI method of measuring pressure. Then why do manufacturer's warn against the use of 5.56 mm ammo in .223 chambered rifles? I'm not sure about the other shenanigans going on but as to your question isn't it because the shorter leade in a .223 chamber could cause an over pressure situation with a longer loaded 5.56 round? |
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I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Quoted:
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Ok its been years since I did much reloading but now that I have this precision AR I have the urge to jump back in. I know from experience that I can produce a bullet and load combination that this gun will like much better than any store bought. Lets see if I have this right This whole .223 vs 5.56 thing seems to boil down the overall finished round length. 5.56 usually uses longer heavier bullets so the leede between the case mouth and the rifling is longer. Case demensions, loads pretty much everything else is the same. If you have a .223 chamber you better not use the longer bullets or the bullet may engage the rifling and increase pressures to dangerous levels. If you have a wilde or 5.56 chamber you should not have a problem. back in the day we used to experiment with loads and the leade between the bullet and rifling. Everything from just touching to backing it off in increments to see what the best accuracy was. Now is my take on this right? Incorrect, Top of the page, Read FAQ's. and now the whole contrivercy on whether to crimp or not. I am reloading for accuracy and I am going to try both. Buying RCBS AR dies and forester bench rest .223 dies. It is the only way that I know of to get to the bottom of this argument. I will see for myself Next. Anybody know where you can buy the Hodgdon varget powder? any recomendations on other powders to try for different loads We have a tacked "where to find" thread at the top of the page to ask this question. If this thread turns into a "where to find" thread it will be locked. I am experimenting bullets matchking 52gr, 69 gr, 77gr, a selection of hornady match bullets, any other reccomendations? What is your AR's twist rate? thanks rick I don't know why everyone believes that 5.56 is loaded to higher pressures than .223. Same brass same case dimensions and they have the same chamber pressures. Now you can put a larger powder charge in 5.56 but because of the dimensions of the chamber it does not result in higher chamber pressures. Put that same load in a .223 chamber and you will probably have much higher even dangerous chamber pressures. read below and maybe you will understand http.//ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts-phb Grasshopper, your link-fu is weak. |
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Because 5.56 mm military ammo is loaded to 6000 psi higher pressure levels than commercial .223. SAAMI limit on .223 is 55,000 psi, NATO 5.56 mm is over 60,000 psi and where did you get that information? read the link. Over 60,000 psi? and how was that measured? Pressure[edit] C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[47] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications. Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI).[48] These pressures are generated and measured using a chamber cut to 5.56 NATO specifications, including the longer leade. Firing 5.56mm NATO from a chamber with a shorter .223 Remington leade can generate pressures in excess of SAAMI maximums. http://ballistictools.com/articles/5.56-vs-.223-myths-and-facts.php I start with what is probably the most common myth, potentially the most dangerous, and the thing that you will probably swear up and down that I am wrong about. Bear with me. 5.56 and .223 are specified at the same pressure. That pressure is 55,000 PSI when measured using the SAAMI method. Most pressures you will encounter in the USA are based on the SAAMI method of measuring pressure. Then why do manufacturer's warn against the use of 5.56 mm ammo in .223 chambered rifles? I'm not sure about the other shenanigans going on but as to your question isn't it because the shorter leade in a .223 chamber could cause an over pressure situation with a longer loaded 5.56 round? that is what it says. the difference is in the way the chambers are constructed especially the leede. Maximum allowable pressures are the same when a 5.56 is fired in a 5.56 chamber and when a ..223 is fired in a .223 chamber. The thing that confuses everyone is that the posted 5.56 pressures are not sammi pressures but pressures obtained by another method but that pressure converts to 55K in sammi. Same as .223. Now don't get me wrong. Firing a 5.56 round in a .223 chamber is not a good idea and could be downright dangerous. |
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Varget has been scare, so I ended up picking up an 8lb jug of H335 which it turns out is one of the original .223/5.56mm powders. Meters well (better than Varget) and it is a little temperature sensitive but I use it for my 100/200 yard practice ammo with 77 gr Sierra Matchkings, saving my Varget for XTC matchs.
Twist of barrel needs to be 1/7 or a little faster to support the heavier bullets if that is the way you are going. FWIW |
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