Let me start off by saying that I'm a traditionalist and a minimalist when it comes to guns, cars and computers.  My opinion is generally that less is more.  You will not see me ask why someone "needs" this stuff.  I don't question the need.  I question the motivation.
When I've expressed my opinions here in the past I may have come across a little strongly.  It's hard to convey tone in text and I'm not a big fan of .  I say put what you want on your guns as long as it's safe and legal.  What I don't understand is WHY?  I'm trying to understand the fascination with all this alphabet soup gear, crazy finishes, slings like S&M devices and stuff that seems to just be delicate and bulky.
When I got into the whole AR-15 thing there wasn't a lot of accessories, the FOPA hadn't passed and there were only a couple of companies besides Colt making lower receivers that didn't outright suck.  You could get heavy barrels, scope mounts and "CAR-15" kits and not a whole lot else.  I guess that's what shaped my opinion about what is a pleasing or useful addition to an AR.  That and two enlistments in the Army with way too much field time.
I say that there is very little to be improved on an M16A1 or it's carbine variant except for removing the forward assist.  All else is task specific accessories and agenda driven changes.

I see a fat ass (like me) out on the range with his M4gery, trying to get a hands free sling in place and nearly strangling himself in the process and I wonder what's going through the guys head?  Am I missing something?  Did he spend an assload on accoutrements just to hose the soda pop cans or in his mind is he the SFOD-D Trooper working a Long Linear Target and kicking ass?  Did he get all that Knight's stuff because it actually helps him shoot more accurately or because of the attention it draws?

I like simple clean stuff.  No complex controls.  No delicate parts.  No sharp edges.  Nothing I can't manipulate in pitch black and almost absolute silence.  No features that solve a problem that doesn't exist.  Nothing there without a reason.  You point to something on my gun and I'll tell you why I allow it to be there.  
I talk some trash about the go-fast goodies and it's mostly in fun but please don't take that to mean that I think I'm better than you or that I'm trying to one-up you.  My opinion and a buck will get you a 20 minute phone call.

Where do you draw the line on accessories?

Do you care if it's U.S. military issue or not?

Do you buy stuff for any practical reason or just because it's cool to you?

Do you buy stuff just because you're jonesing for it?

Do you really think that owning an SPR-A clone will get you laid?

Do you actually consider the tradeoffs of putting more stuff on your rifle?

#1"Where do you draw the line on accessories?"

right about...............there!

#2"Do you care if it's U.S. military issue or not?"

Yes,nine times out of ten it's better.

#3"Do you buy stuff for any practical reason or just because it's cool to you?"

Some of each.

#4"Do you buy stuff just because you're jonesing for it?"

Try not to,most of the time it works.

#5"Do you really think that owning an SPR-A clone will get you laid?"

Don't know but I'd like to see:)

#6"Do you actually consider the tradeoffs of putting more stuff on your rifle?"

No,don't put alot of "stuff" on a gun.
Buy the right gun you don't need stuff.
(see #2)



 

i'm cheap. i buy stuff because i think i need it. sometimes i think wrong and it turns out i just want it(like my lbv or those extra 6 mags i bought this weekend). i shoot surplus ammo over iron sights, and try to do the best i can with that. technology (except maybe night vision) isnt going to make me shoot better.

having said that, i want a decent scope, longer barrel, bipod, side-mount sling...

it's a matter of degree. do we REALLY NEED/b] ar15s at all, or do we just want them real bad?

I'm not a fan of the JC Whitney school of pimpin out an M4, but what the hey, each to his/her own...

I own ONE (1) post-ban 20" A2 with Zero (0) accessories. Oh sorry I got an accuwedge! I'm not a fan of tricked out guns either. Kinda like a spoiler on a honda with a top speed of....90!!!!!

 Stuff that isn't there doesn't break, fall off or die of dead batteries.  I have a tac sling on the CAR b/c it us useful for weps retention when transitioning to the sidearm.  I used to do 3-gun (and hope to do more) but, to quote my dad, the less gingerbread the better.

The only accessories I consider absolutely essential are.....a sling (you know, the one that does nothing except hold the weapon on your shoulder), and a BUNCH of magazines. Everything I buy for a firearm has a practical reason behind it. I try to get USGI stuff as much as possible because having been in the Army, I know that it's all no-frills, tough as iron, practical stuff.

I fall somewhere in the middle. My accessory purchases are ruled mostly by opportunity and function, though sometimes I think I just can't live without some doodad.....

Fer instance, I have no use for rails and most of what you can put on them -- lasers, tactical lights, vertical grips, and whatever else you hang out there. I'm not LE and for sport/competition shooting, they just add weight and get in the way.

I DO have a variety of uppers, to keep from melting gas tubes in FA. All are factory Colt except for one that's Colt but has a bobbed barrel. And I have an ACOG TA47-2, a ProPoint5 and a Beeman SS-2 for when I need to reach out there, or for competition use.

Suppressors are VERY useful if you shoot a lot and want to preserve your hearing. Cans also are by far the best muzzle brakes/compensators.

I keep meaning to buy a sling, but if I've gotten by without one for this long, I prolly don't need it.

I can't pass up a deal on mags, because they just keep getting more expensive. Bought a Beta while they were still $450, but it's still sealed in plastic. Maybe someday I'll find a use for it. Bought Colt 9mm factory mags back when they were $55-$60 each, use 'em almost daily, and wish I had bought more. Also love and use my 9mm drum mags.

As far as finishes, a  black gun should be black .... or at least dark gray.

J_E_D: I'll have to agree with you. I don't buy things that get in the way or collect dust (expensively) in a closet. Bare minimum is just fine for me: it frees up money for more purchases (guns & ammo, not accessories). I bought a Sig P239 and had it for over a month while I shopped around for a holster that didn't set me back half the price of the gun-take in mind I live about 2 miles from Galco. I finally found a Bianchi that not only works with my Sig, but also with my Beretta 92FS. For $29.95. That's a deal. I'm sure there are lots of folks here that buy a holster for each pistol. If's not something that is functionally used EVERY time I go to shoot, I don't need it.

When I buy/build a rifle (or any firearm for that matter), I decide what I want it to do and the parts it will take to accomplish the task before I even begin.  I can't recall a single project that has changed/evolved into something else.  My tactical rifle doesn't look anything like what the SF guys carry, but it serves the intended purpose.

I've got weapons and then I've got toys.  Accessories vary from slim to extravagantly stupid depending on duty of the gun.

J_E_D, I trick out just about everything I own. My 67 Camero looks and runs better than the day it was new, My 87 Blazer has all sorts of goodies in-on it, my puter rocks too. So why not trick out a firearm ? Make it look-function the way I want it (within legal parameters on all the above). Would you prefer dohnuts or porkchops while you surf this site? I buy it becouse I want it. I too stick to the simple things in life.........BTW what does J_E_D stand for? just curious.

I've never had a scope on mine. I love the iron sights and they're damn accurate/fast.

1) I don't draw any line on accessories--unless something is just plain stupid, unsafe, impractical, or illegal.

2) I tend to look at what law enforcement does.  Alot of my shooting buddies are cops (there's a few SWAT-teamers), so I'm more "up" on what they do.  

3) Most of the gun stuff that's "cool" to me is so BECAUSE it serves some sort of real funtion.  Whether or not I NEED it is a different issue.

4) Yes.  Why else would I?

5) It might.  It just might.

6) I can always remove the "stuff."  The only downside is cost.

There's nothing wrong with voicing opinions, but when the opinionated start judging others because they don't conform to "their" standard, the inferiority complex comes through.

I used to outwardly ridicule things that others had that in my mind I wanted, so I wouldn't feel so bad about not having it.

People trying to make themselves feel better about what they can't have, at the expense of others.

I'm past that stage in my life, now that I can pretty much get what I want.  Although I do feel myself going back when I think of full-auto.

Where do you draw the line on accessories?

It must be functional before anything else.

Do you care if it's U.S. military issue or not?

I'm active duty military, so I prefer accessories like what I have at work, or what is in the system.

Do you buy stuff for any practical reason or just because it's cool to you?

I buy for both reasons, with practicality edging out coolness.

Do you buy stuff just because you're jonesing for it?

Past that stage.

Do you really think that owning an SPR-A clone will get you laid?

I'm happily married so this wouldn't be a consideration to me when building an AR.  Plus, I've not met a woman that had any interest in firearms anyway.

Do you actually consider the tradeoffs of putting more stuff on your rifle?

I do keep an weight in mind, but understand that for functionality there will be a tradeoff.  I just make sure it isn't too much of a tradeoff.


I too go by what was said previously, "to each his own", because we as Americans can!


Chris

Quoted: J_E_D, I trick out just about everything I own. My 67 Camero looks and runs better than the day it was new, My 87 Blazer has all sorts of goodies in-on it, my puter rocks too. So why not trick out a firearm ? Make it look-function the way I want it (within legal parameters on all the above). Would you prefer dohnuts or porkchops while you surf this site? I buy it becouse I want it. I too stick to the simple things in life.........BTW what does J_E_D stand for? just curious.

They're my initials.  Yeah, I'm Mr. Imaginative.  I hate pigeonholing myself with some falsely rugged sounding name like Angel_of_something or [brandname]_fanboy or something like that.  I was debating on MudvalveMike but my name isn't Mike.  It also seems like there's a lot of other losers named "Jon" showing up on the boards I frequent.  Some of those who share my first name ask some pretty embarrasing questions as I'm sure my comments server to upset them too.

I used to call myself "Rick Venus" while I was stationed in Korea but that's a whole different story that's particularly off color and shameful.  I use the name Richard Beater when I play games like Counter-Strike or RtCW.

Here's my idea of an Old School accessory that rocks.  This is a picture from tony_k.
I dig this.

 [:\]  I  agree with some of things mentioned by JED and others. I purchase gear because it is practical AND reliable.I research the gear I buy because when I was a young lad I PISSED AWAY more money on useless stuff that looked cool and got zero out of it. Most of the gear that I did not try out at first was not right for me, for example C-More Scout sight.It is a great piece of optic but the dot is WAY too small for me to see quickly.I sold it at a slight loss! Now, I am a little wiser: I research and test things before I sink the cash into it.As far as need,somethings like ammo,extra mags,good sling are needed other stuff I see at the ranges.....well I kinda wonder!!!!

I'll put it this way....

I bought 1000 rounds of Q3131A bundled with 100 rounds of red tip (thanks, ammoman) and 10 30 round mags this week.  They'll feed a Bushy 20" HBAR with iron sights and a milspec sling.

I have a 7.62x39 Colt 16" CAR with iron sights  that I wish I could get some of you tight asses to sell me some more of those AK style 30 rounders for.

But every time I see a pimped out M4, I get a stiffy.  

I figure I've got the bulletproof $hit, so "Let's Go Pimpin".  M4, CMag, night vision...................

Can A Man Have TOO Many Toys?

Out FriggenStanding J_E_D. I'm impressed with the pic, really nice piece of equipment wouldn't mind owning one of these myself. I too was at the ROK 89-90 2nd ID, learned how to drive over there, really!

JED    I'm like you if I don't need it or can't use it ,then it's just more weight.   But if my sights are not up to par I'll get new ones or a scope.    I The sling is a must for me as I use it for not only carrying the riffle(that has a built in carrying handle) But to steady my shot as well.  


The only thing I don't use,and would get rid of if I could would be this damned brake on my 16 Inc bushy(If I cut It off the barrel would be too short.    Blaa    

 Bob  

Hey J_E_D,

Whaere did you get those shorty triangle hand guards?

Inquiring minds wnat to know!

Umm .... J_E_D posted the pic, but it's of my M16A1.

The handguards are a design used on some of the XM177 prototypes. The gentleman who built this upper got them from a company called Hayriver Trading, which manufactures the special end caps and cuts down standard A1 handguards to fit.

I'm tracking down contact info on Hayriver Trading for J_E_D right now......

Quoted: Out FriggenStanding J_E_D. I'm impressed with the pic, really nice piece of equipment wouldn't mind owning one of these myself. I too was at the ROK 89-90 2nd ID, learned how to drive over there, really!

Those handguards are tony_k's!!!

I don't have any of those yet.

When I find out where to get them, I'll pass it on.

They're just like the prototype handguards I saw on an OLD Colt shorty in a museum when I was a kid.

I don't get a stiffy from MRE-SIR-M-O-U-S-E stuff, but those handguards are righteous.

tony_k has assempled the Commando that should have been.  I will give into me-too-itis and do the same thing.  I've got the M16 lower, the stock, the barrel is on the way, I've got a Colt A1 upper with the brass deflector hump and I've got a woody for those handguards.

Me-too-itis is what makes people buy a Ford Exploder or any other SUV because everyone else has one.  I think it may be the force behind about half the sales of accessories in this niche of the gun community.  

I have me-too-itis.  I think I understand now.

Quoted: Quoted: J_E_D, I trick out just about everything I own. My 67 Camero looks and runs better than the day it was new, My 87 Blazer has all sorts of goodies in-on it, my puter rocks too. So why not trick out a firearm ? Make it look-function the way I want it (within legal parameters on all the above). Would you prefer dohnuts or porkchops while you surf this site? I buy it becouse I want it. I too stick to the simple things in life.........BTW what does J_E_D stand for? just curious. They're my initials.  Yeah, I'm Mr. Imaginative.  I hate pigeonholing myself with some falsely rugged sounding name like Angel_of_something or [brandname]_fanboy or something like that.  I was debating on MudvalveMike but my name isn't Mike.  It also seems like there's a lot of other losers named "Jon" showing up on the boards I frequent.  Some of those who share my first name ask some pretty embarrasing questions as I'm sure my comments server to upset them too. I used to call myself "Rick Venus" while I was stationed in Korea but that's a whole different story that's particularly off color and shameful.  I use the name Richard Beater when I play games like Counter-Strike or RtCW. Here's my idea of an Old School accessory that rocks.  This is a picture from tony_k. I dig this.

Jeez! But for the short barrel, That weapon looks EXACTLY like mine! Less IS more. AB

My compliments tony_k, nice 16. And to J_E_D for posting the pic. No bayonet lug 14.5" barrel?

Quoted: Out FriggenStanding J_E_D. I'm impressed with the pic, really nice piece of equipment wouldn't mind owning one of these myself. I too was at the ROK 89-90 2nd ID, learned how to drive over there, really!

I was in the 102nd MI on Camp Hovey from Sep 90 to Sep 91.  I was the M60 gunner for my platoon and didn't have a steady AG.  My roommate punked me out to go TDY to the Field Station in Camp Humphreys for a couple of months during Desert Shield.  Part of my aversion to add ons and gimmicks come from lugging around my M60, my tripod AND my spare barrel (with T&E device in the bag) and oh yes, don't forget, occasionally an assload of blanks.  That's along with the other 60lbs or more of shit (LBE, flak vest, K-pot, 1911A1, fart sack) and the usual rucksack crap.  Now, given that I've got all this shit to carry and I wasn't whining about it, my dipshit LT decides that we need to sign out the PVS-4, mount it on the M60 and hump that too.  Yes, I had to bring the big fvcking black case for the PVS-4.  I left that rat dick bastard in the dust despite lugging all that garbage.  Prior service Lieutennants shouldn't be allowed to speak more than twice a day to anyone they outrank.  Any idea that they think is a good idea should be subject to a general veto unless under fire in which case they will be ignored anyway.

Contact for Hay River Trading Co is (715)357-6054. I have these handguards on my 11.5 incher along with a Pigtail. (Old School...!)

www.m16pigtail.com/

Quoted: Contact for Hay River Trading Co is (715)357-6054. I have these handguards on my 11.5 incher along with a Pigtail. (Old School...!)

Thanks!  I'm on that like white on rice!

You're welcome.

If it aint there it cant break that my slogan when it comes to rifles. When I hunt I dont use a scope it the shots are under 200 yards. Why drop the rifle once and the zero may move it may not.

J_E_D: We got sent CONUS back to Benning in July 90 and Aug 1/90 went to IRF as luck would have it Kiss My Ass we werent even done unpacking and we were off to some shit hole place on the planet two weeks later

Quoted: J_E_D: We got sent CONUS back to Benning in July 90 and Aug 1/90 went to IRF as luck would have it Kiss My Ass we werent even done unpacking and we were off to some shit hole place on the planet two weeks later

You weren't in a COHORT unit were you?


I got sent to some pretty screwed places that most people wouldn't have thought we'd have people back then.  It's fun to tell about now, but it sucked ass back then.
After my second enlistment and playing the promotion board trivia game I had enough.  No more cold muddy nights for me.  No more 5:45 am PT when it's too cold out.  No more double standards.  No more shaving before PT when you don't need to.  No more being told to shave before PT by a female.  No more barracks full of inconsiderate juveniles.  No more change of command inventories.  No more Army Finance giving me the big green sandpaper weenie in the ass over TDY advances and my Gov't AMEX.  I could go on for days but I think everyone gets the idea.  Oh yeah, no more bent/limp-wrist saluters.

Hell, my favorite configuration is the good old Colt SP1

A1 sights, light 20 in. barrel, shorter stock, triangular handguards, no forward assist, A1 Flash Hider, Bayonet lug.

The only accessories I have for it are sling, the cleaning kit, some 20 rnd and 30 rnd mags, a Colt bipod, and of course ammo

Well, let me be the voice in the wilderness here. First, I'm old enough to have turned in an M1 for an M14 during my service days, yet I find myself attacted to, and in the middle of putting together, an M4type. Now understand, I've already got an A2 type, with a heavy wieght barrel, and an SP1 carbine, so it's not that I think the M4  is the end all and the be all, but it does seem to me that the ability to mount a low scope is the major advantage of the reciever, and at my age, I like having a scope to look thru.  I'm perfectly happy with something 4 to 6 power and reasonably compact.  A1/SP1 sights? Brother, if you like 'em be my guest.  But then, I ain't worried about going into combat any more, so I'll take the ability to move my impact point 1 or 2 inches without having to dig a round out of the mag to make the change.  Well, the M4gery barrel is on the way, and after I get the piece built and played with for a few weeks I'll get back to you.

Oh, fancy ass electronic sights, flash lights,and front handgrips.  Hell no.  A2 irons and/or Regular old scopes do me just fine, thank you.  To that extent, I guess I'm still a traditionalist.

K.I.S.S.

Give me a Aimpoint and a good tactical sling and that's it.I know some of our Internet warriors need every accessory ever made,you never know when the Delta Team is going to be calling for your help.Some of these weapons look like they belong to a 18 yr old with too much testosterone.

Quoted: Just an opinion... This hobby is just that right now, a hobby. Why buy a lever action in 44-40 over a modern carbine? Looks, feel, appearance. I think that's why we buy ARs in the first place. Some guys prefer an Austin Healey, some guys want the Audi TT. If it weren't for appearances, the whole post ban, pre ban issue wouldn't matter. I think we like to picture ourselves in different roles. Maybe you see yourself as a practical soldier, not wanting a lot of extra accessories on your rifle. Some other guys may envision themselves as an elite special ops kind of guy saving hostages or something like that. It's all about choices. I like to keep things simple myself. I don't see the need for lasers, lights, picatinny rails, etc. but a lot of people do. Everyone has their own style. If they didn't, gun manufacturers could make one rifle and one pistol. If the SHTF tomorrow, practical will be primary. I hope it never does.

That was pretty well said.  I never considered it like that.  I still set my guns up the same way I'd want them for Infantry use.  After two enlistments in the Army I wished I'd gone 11 series.  My M16 is set up as a 20" A2 since I shoot the occasional DCM match and I can't bring myself to put a heavy 20" barrel on an A1 upper.

My SP1 w/Aimpoint. That's enough for me.

coyote3

Here's the scoop on the carbine lenght A1 handguard setup.

Ken Drasen
Hay River Trading
[email protected]
(715)357-6054

$10 for rear triangular cap
$29 for fat carbine gas tube

Paypal accepted.  I paid him $5 S&H for USPS Priority Mail.

Installation of the triangle handguards requires that the rifle (triangular) front handguard cap be installed which means front sight removal.  It also means that you need to cut down a set of A1 handguards or get some from Ken.  You could also install a flat non-delta handguard slip ring since it looks a lot better, but good luck finding one.  If you go this route ask Ken about the quick handguard hacking tips.  There's a couple of gotchas.

I chatted with Ken for a while and he's a very smart guy.  I'm going to try his gas tube instead of going with the pigtail due to cost and ease of installation.  If, and probably when, it works I'll be posting pics and details over in the M16 - Full Auto forum.

I guess I fall into the minimalist camp.  I think my Bushy A2 HBAR is fine as it came from the factory.  I also prefer the ruggedness of Orlites.  I note that the military disgards mags after three uses with aluminum so why would I want their disgards.  For Duty use I use a stock 1991A1 and an 870, only accessory a mag tube extension.  I also have an SAR-1 that I swapped out the originals for a redstar trigger and the rear site for a mojo peep site.

Note all these changes were simply replacing things that were sub par in their original configuration.  

We got guys on the department that carry more stuff on their belt than batman.  Why?  I take what I need and leave the rest in the trunk.  

My 16" Olympic A2 has the following:
"Tactical" sling.
Tritium iron sights.
Streamlight w/remote switch on handguard.
8 x USGI mags

I have these because if a Very Bad Thing ever happens and I have to use this AR for more than shooting at paper, it will almost certainly be night.  Most Very Bad Things happen under cover of darkness, when the cowardly gremlins are out.

But do I have to admit that, like most people here, an M4 with Knight's rails, ACOG, night vision, beta mag, bipod, infrared laser, sound suppressor, AM/FM radio, can opener, and juicer makes me drool!  

  Why not have all the goodies and gadgets? If you learn the basics of your weapons systems and know it's and your limitations. Why not use the gear that will help you be more proficient with that system and raise the bar for you?

   

 

 

 

Absolutely no disrespect intended but isn't having a light on your weapon like having a big lighted billboard saying here I am?

   Not at all if used properly. Find someone with a Surefire 9 volt and sit in a dark built up area and let him give ya a quick shine in the face. Then try and keep tabs on him as he keeps moving.

I showed up at a tactical carbine school. The instructors were from a medium-sized city's SWAT Team. The students were all POs ranging from SWAT guys to patrol, with the weapons ranging from very expensive personally-owned Armalites to out-of-the box issued Colt M16s (what I had). The folks I went with all had M16A2 carbines. The only additions were a simple 6V Surefire light and a sling.

The instructors said that our set-up was probably the best. It was possible to really load down a "lightweight" AR-style carbine with "necessary" junk, but when you get right down to it, all you really need for CQB is a sling and a light. A lot of the gimmicky stuff people tried to use, like redi-mags and such failed.

Since that time, I've gotten an EOTech issued, and I love it, but it does make things heavier. Some of my compatriots have turned their EOTechs in and are using irons; it is just easier for them.          

Here's my old school setup.  Pre-Ban Eagle Arms CAR-15, A2 carry handle, Ergo grip, M4 handguards and single point sling.  I'll probably breakdown and get an Aimpoint ML2 mounted on an ARMS #39A2...  Well, maybe it's not so "Old School" but it's not too pimped out either.

When it comes down to it, iron sights, mags and lots of ammo will get the job done just as well as the most pimped out M4gery, all else is supplemental.

My Aimpoint Comp M2 allows me to acquire and hit a target, much faster, and at greater ranges than with the irons.

My Throw-Lever mounted Surefire M962P allows me to see at night.

My RIS allows me to mount the above mentioned light, and a vertical grip, which I find to be ergonomically more comfortable than just the handguards.

None of these things could ever be a liability.

Right now, my "add-ons" are a shooting sling, free float tube, two stage trigger, Bob Jones sights, 1/2 moa rear sight base, and narrow front sight. What this all adds up to is a Highpower legal service rifle (I haven't obtained the match grade barrel yet). This setup looks like a stock A2 sporting a leather sling . . .

I'd like to have a "ranch defense" setup, which would consist of: 16" "M-4" barrel, free-float tube (probably the type with mounting points), flashlight, and possibly some sort of scope. The purpose of this setup would be practicle defense, not to make the weapon look "cool".