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Posted: 6/26/2007 6:18:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 5:59:32 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
I am looking for some advise...

I finaly have my Form 4s and the money to send in the last of my "taxes" and I discovered that the Form for for my Norrell Trigger pack has the following listed under item "h" "Additional Description or Data Appearing on Firearm:

Trigger Housing is Serial Numbered. Receiver is not Modified. Receiver Serial Number is 110-xxxxx

Does this mean that my trigger pack is married to this receiver? Is there any way to get this changed and if I need to have a receiver listed at least I can puchase one of the new Steel receivers?

The form 4 is quite clear that it is a trigger pack. I just wish that the Form didn't list a receiver serial number as god knows a receiver can wear out while a trigger housing will last forever.

I have not submitted the Form 4 to the BATFE yet as I wanted some advise on how to proceed. If there is nothing I can do about it it looks like I am going to have to contact one of the manufactures that makes the steel 10/22 receivers and offer them a RANDSOM to make me a steel receiver that has the same serial number of my Ruger 10/22 (Note, it doesn't say it is a Ruger 10/22 receiver - just a serial number) but I would really love to hear if it may be possible to divorce the trigger pack from the receiver!

Any Oppinions?
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 8:08:37 AM EDT
In my opinion... (free internet advice, worth what you paid for it), I'd fill out the new Form 4 with nothing in that section. I will bet is gets approved that way.
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 8:16:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2007 8:16:53 AM EDT by tony_k]
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 8:54:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2007 9:29:52 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By tony_k:
FWIW, I would fill out a new Form 4 with the following wording in section "h" deleting reference to a particular host:

Trigger Housing is Serial Numbered and does not require receiver modification. Will be used in several different host 10/22 receivers.

I would then submit the Form 4 package with a cover letter stating that when you purchased this registered trigger pack, it was installed in receiver SN 110-xxxxx but that you intend to use it in other host 10/22s, and requesting acknowledgment of this.

As soon as an examiner is assigned to the transfer, give him/her a call, make sure the cover letter reached them, and explain the situation.


Thanks for the advise. I did talk with Howard about this (M60Howard) and he thought that this is something that I can always just send a letter to the BATFE about later if I want or need to change hosts BUT it is a PITA as I have two completely different setups I want to be able to use the trigger pack with so this does make a lot of sense.

I did confirm however that when John Norrell did the original transfer to the first owner that it was on his Form 4 like this...
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 9:03:35 AM EDT
It shouldn't matter if the original transfer was listed like that. Tony K gives excellent advice!
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 9:23:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2007 9:23:44 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
One more issue while I update the forums. The original paperwork also lists a Barrel Length and an Overall Length. I am going to have both of these replaced with N/A as clearly a trigger housing does not have a barrel and the overall length (about 3-inches) is not what is intended.

I need to verify what my LL paperworks says but I am pretty sure it has NA's in these locations.

The worst that can happen is the BATFE sends me the forms back and I tried...
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 10:30:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2007 10:56:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2007 12:46:44 PM EDT by Quarterbore]
Well, the letter is in the mail with a corrected copy of the forms... we will see?




National Firearms Act Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
PO Box 530298
Atlanta, GA 30353-0298

RE: Transfer of the Norrell Trigger Housing Serial Number XXXXXXXX

Dear Sir or Madam:

This letter is in relation to the transfer of the Norrell Arms Inc Trigger Housing, Serial Number XXXXXXXX. Please note that when I purchased this registered trigger pack that it was installed in a rifle with the serial number 110-XXXXXXXX and that the rifle had an 18-inch barrel and an overall length of 37-inches. The Form 4 also indicated that the “Trigger Housing is Serial Numbered. Receiver is not Modified. Receiver Serial Number 110-XXXXXXXX.”

We are planning to use this registered trigger group with several host 10/22s so the Form 4 that is enclosed has been updated to reflect this fact. The new Form 4 has been updated in the following sections:

  • 4(e) Length Of Barrel, now says N/A

  • 4(f) Overall Length, now says N/A

  • 4(h) Additional Description, now says, “Trigger Housing is Serial Numbered and does not require receiver modification. Will be used in several different host 10/22 receivers.”

Please note as a registered trigger pack, it has no barrel length and the overall length is likewise not relevant as the overall length will vary based on the host gun that the registered trigger group is installed in. If I may answer any questions about these updates, please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx. This is a cell phone so I should have it with me at all times of the day or evening.

Sincerely,
Kenneth WHATYANAME
President, Quarterbore Inc.


Yea, it is a Corp gun
Link Posted: 6/28/2007 7:40:18 PM EDT
Who is the MFG on your form 4?
Link Posted: 6/29/2007 4:00:34 AM EDT
Norrell Arms Inc
Link Posted: 6/29/2007 12:33:48 PM EDT
The Form 4 for my own Norrell trigger pack does not list any specific host gun, barrel length, or overall length.
Link Posted: 6/29/2007 12:42:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hrt4me:
The Form 4 for my own Norrell trigger pack does not list any specific host gun, barrel length, or overall length.


Good to kow... Did he have anything in 4(h) on your form?

Like I said, my forms are on the way so I just have to see what happens now...
Link Posted: 7/2/2007 5:23:47 AM EDT
My Norrell trigger pak (That' the way John spells it), lists S&H Arms as the manuf., of the auto sear, not Norrell Arms. I'm pretty sure it's right, because I bought it NOS fro John himself.

Lengths are both n/a.
Link Posted: 7/2/2007 6:42:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By hrt4me:
The Form 4 for my own Norrell trigger pack does not list any specific host gun, barrel length, or overall length.


Good to kow... Did he have anything in 4(h) on your form?

Like I said, my forms are on the way so I just have to see what happens now...


I have bought two from John over the years.
Both H blocks are blank.
Link Posted: 7/2/2007 8:00:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cpermd:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By hrt4me:
The Form 4 for my own Norrell trigger pack does not list any specific host gun, barrel length, or overall length.


Good to kow... Did he have anything in 4(h) on your form?

Like I said, my forms are on the way so I just have to see what happens now...


I have bought two from John over the years.
Both H blocks are blank.


The purpose of putting the host gun SN in the 4(h) block is so you do not have to take your pack apart to prove the sear matches the F4. The theory is if you are questioned about the legality of your sear, you can show your host gun SN is on the F4, you will be left alone.

Note that 4(h) states:

"Additional Description or Data Appearing on Firearm"

Well the host gun SN is not "Additional Description or Data Appearing on Firearm", as the "firearm" in question is the sear. But people use that space to add comments.
Link Posted: 7/3/2007 6:24:02 AM EDT
Yea, I know but in my case the rifle as it is configred has a Norrell integral supressor and I am planning to take the full-auto trigger pack out of this gun and use it in a Krinker plinker setup. I could have moved the receiver over to build the plinker but the receiver and supressor were refinished in Norrell's Molycoat so there is not a good reason to split them if I can avoid it.

Once I get the trigger pack and put some money back in the bank, I plan to register the receiver I use to build the Krinker as a SBR so I can move the trigger pack between any of my three Ruger 10/22s. My third 10/22 is a stock looking 10/22 with a 16-inch Tac-Innovations threaded barrel that I use in semiauto with a TAC-65 to address pests close to other houses!

Just trying to cover all my bases incase the Ruger 10/22 shows up in a future crime bill! For about $150/ea I plan to buy two more 10/22s to have spares before the next elections as a $9000 trigger pack with no gun to use it in would really suck when the guns are so cheap!

I have a lifetime supply of good mags.
Link Posted: 7/3/2007 9:02:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Yea, I know but in my case the rifle as it is configred has a Norrell integral supressor and I am planning to take the full-auto trigger pack out of this gun and use it in a Krinker plinker setup. I could have moved the receiver over to build the plinker but the receiver and supressor were refinished in Norrell's Molycoat so there is not a good reason to split them if I can avoid it.

Once I get the trigger pack and put some money back in the bank, I plan to register the receiver I use to build the Krinker as a SBR so I can move the trigger pack between any of my three Ruger 10/22s. My third 10/22 is a stock looking 10/22 with a 16-inch Tac-Innovations threaded barrel that I use in semiauto with a TAC-65 to address pests close to other houses!

Just trying to cover all my bases incase the Ruger 10/22 shows up in a future crime bill! For about $150/ea I plan to buy two more 10/22s to have spares before the next elections as a $9000 trigger pack with no gun to use it in would really suck when the guns are so cheap!

I have a lifetime supply of good mags.


It is not easy to move your trigger pack in and out of a Krinker-Plinker. You have to really take it apart.
Link Posted: 7/5/2007 5:32:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tony_k:

As soon as an examiner is assigned to the transfer, give him/her a call, make sure the cover letter reached them, and explain the situation.


Well, my check ($800 worth of taxes) has cleared on July 2nd. Now, may I ask how a person can call the examiner? Should I bother or trust that if they have a question they will let me know?

I work with the FDA on a daily basis and my experience tells me that some people like to be contacted while others would take offense.

I think I am going to let this go and see if I run into problems. I am not in a huge rush to get the trigger pack but I do hope that if there are any issues it does not delay the transfer of my two supressors and my SBR Mini UZI.
Link Posted: 7/5/2007 10:26:31 AM EDT
I would recommend you just forget about it and wait. Contemporary transfer times are much better than years ago.
Link Posted: 7/5/2007 10:39:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Well, my check ($800 worth of taxes) has cleared on July 2nd. Now, may I ask how a person can call the examiner? Should I bother or trust that if they have a question they will let me know?


I do not understand the need to call, unless it has been weeks and your check is not cashed, and you want to make sure they got it. Since yours cleared, you are G2G.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:56:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 5:57:18 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Just a quick follow-up, my Form 4 was approved with the suggested changes so I do not have a receiver serial number listed on my Form 4 for my Trigger Pack (it does have the serial number that is engraved onto the Norrell Trigger Pack obviously).

Thanks again for the suggestion!

I have not got to take it to the range yet but I did dump 25-rds through her and wow is this going to be a fun gun! The rate of fire is much slower then I expected (compared to the M16 or UZI with 22 conversions) but that is a good thing!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:13:23 PM EDT
How much does a Norrell pack cost now?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By tony_k:
FWIW, I would fill out a new Form 4 with the following wording in section "h" deleting reference to a particular host:

Trigger Housing is Serial Numbered and does not require receiver modification. Will be used in several different host 10/22 receivers.

I would then submit the Form 4 package with a cover letter stating that when you purchased this registered trigger pack, it was installed in receiver SN 110-xxxxx but that you intend to use it in other host 10/22s, and requesting acknowledgment of this.

As soon as an examiner is assigned to the transfer, give him/her a call, make sure the cover letter reached them, and explain the situation.



+2
I have 2 and filled them out in Mr Norrell's shop with him that way

CP
Thanks for the advise. I did talk with Howard about this (M60Howard) and he thought that this is something that I can always just send a letter to the BATFE about later if I want or need to change hosts BUT it is a PITA as I have two completely different setups I want to be able to use the trigger pack with so this does make a lot of sense.

I did confirm however that when John Norrell did the original transfer to the first owner that it was on his Form 4 like this...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:42:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJE:
How much does a Norrell pack cost now?


Last I can remember around $8500. I think John was releasing small batches for this price & they sold in a blink.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:25:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtl1952:

Originally Posted By AJE:
How much does a Norrell pack cost now?


Last I can remember around $8500. I think John was releasing small batches for this price & they sold in a blink.


The last set he released were $10,000 and they sold in under 3-days as I had read.

I paid $10k for mine as part of a complete gun w/ Norrell supressor
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 5:27:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Originally Posted By jtl1952:

Originally Posted By AJE:
How much does a Norrell pack cost now?


Last I can remember around $8500. I think John was releasing small batches for this price & they sold in a blink.


The last set he released were $10,000 and they sold in under 3-days as I had read.

I paid $10k for mine as part of a complete gun w/ Norrell supressor


Wow! - I missed that batch. These are going up faster than most other MGs. I bought mine 2-years ago this month - complete Norrell with integral suppressed barrel all SS that was new (never transferred from the SOT to the first owner) - for $6500. I thought that was too high. Where have we heard that before -
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 5:33:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2007 5:34:36 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
You did pay too much

I never thought they were worth as much as an AR-15 RR until I moved down near Philli PA were I can't shoot full auto 223 anymore. I also had the ciener kits for the RR in the past and when the mags/kit work they are great but the kits are just not all that reliable.

The Norrell trigger pack seems like the ultimate 22 MG and I wish I had not put off the purchase so many years that I too could have paid to much back when they were only $6500

At least I purchased before they cost $15,000
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