Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 2/13/2013 3:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2013 3:36:35 PM EDT by Lancelot]
Hi,

I am new here and have an NFA question regarding SBR uppers.
I currently have a tax stamp for a form 1 I sent out for a 5.56 lower assigned to a 10.5 inch barrel. This is my only AR at this point.
I understand that a person can have multiple SBR uppers and install them on the same SBR lower as long as there is at least a one to one ratio of any non sbr uppers to non sbr lowers in the collection.

I don't know whether I can put a 300 blackout upper (whether short barreled or 16+ inches) on my lower when the form said 5.56.

Can anyone answer this question?
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 2:05:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2013 2:14:30 PM EDT by colt-fan]
The information I am about to give you came directly from my nfa examiner Sandra snook when I asked the same question. You need to write a letter to nfa. List your firearm and tax stamp information and ask them to ad it to you tax stamp paperwork. On the letter list all caliber s you may want to use and also list all barrel lengths. For the barrel length you can have a range (I used 3-24 inches). Also keep a copy of the letter with your tax stamp. After that you are good to have as many uppers as you like. Just remember that if you ever want to sell it, it must be placed back in the configuration listed on the tax stamp.

Hope it helps
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 3:01:07 PM EDT
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 3:22:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


X2. All that is needed is to be able to configure it back to the registered configurations. Caliber and barrel length. You can have as many upper as you want. No need to match uppers or whatever to regular ones.
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 1:50:44 PM EDT
You can.
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 1:52:57 PM EDT
I'm not an expert but I believe you're fine,there is a section for nfa related content in the armory section
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 2:28:26 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info. I wasn't sure where to post this question as this is my first post on this board. I'll write the NFA regarding the new uppers. Does anyone know if an answer will take 6 months like the tax stamp?
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 3:46:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


X2. All that is needed is to be able to configure it back to the registered configurations. Caliber and barrel length. You can have as many upper as you want. No need to match uppers or whatever to regular ones.


^ this

Put anything you want on a stamped lower. The ATF only ASKS that you inform them of any permanent changes to the configuration of an NFA item.
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 3:56:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RPM509:
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


X2. All that is needed is to be able to configure it back to the registered configurations. Caliber and barrel length. You can have as many upper as you want. No need to match uppers or whatever to regular ones.


^ this

Put anything you want on a stamped lower. The ATF only ASKS that you inform them of any permanent changes to the configuration of an NFA item.


Wow, there's a lot of bad info in this thread...

1) You do not have to notify ATF of any changes, permanent or otherwise. It's merely a request on their part, you need not comply and there are many good reason not to.

2) It is simply not true that one must be able to retain to original Form 1 configuration. There's nothing compelling you to do so and ATF cannot withhold or deny a transfer approval over mismatched info on configurations. Would love to find the source of this persistent internet myth and punch him...
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 4:00:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2013 4:00:44 PM EDT by RPM509]
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By RPM509:
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


X2. All that is needed is to be able to configure it back to the registered configurations. Caliber and barrel length. You can have as many upper as you want. No need to match uppers or whatever to regular ones.


^ this

Put anything you want on a stamped lower. The ATF only ASKS that you inform them of any permanent changes to the configuration of an NFA item.


Wow, there's a lot of bad info in this thread...

1) You do not have to notify ATF of any changes, permanent or otherwise. It's merely a request on their part, you need not comply and there are many good reason not to.

2) It is simply not true that one must be able to retain to original Form 1 configuration. There's nothing compelling you to do so and ATF cannot withhold or deny a transfer approval over mismatched info on configurations. Would love to find the source of this persistent internet myth and punch him...


Nothing I said was wrong in any way shape or form. I am a little baffled why you would quote my reply and state what you did.
You parroted what I said...
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 4:06:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2013 4:08:21 PM EDT by colt-fan]
You guys do what you want. I will listen to the person who approved my form 1. Also to answer posters question no there is no wait. Just send in the letter that the ATF requests. People are correct that this is not an absolute requirement but many ATF agents are not sure of the requirement. I choose to cover myself and put in a simple letter stating my intent to use additional uppers.

Also you don't even need to own the original upper configuration. You just have to put it back that way if you sell gun as complete rifle.
.02
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 5:00:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RPM509:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By RPM509:
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
You don't need to do all that shit unless its permanent.

This really needs to be in the sbr section so you wont get stupid/ignorant replies

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


X2. All that is needed is to be able to configure it back to the registered configurations. Caliber and barrel length. You can have as many upper as you want. No need to match uppers or whatever to regular ones.


^ this

Put anything you want on a stamped lower. The ATF only ASKS that you inform them of any permanent changes to the configuration of an NFA item.


Wow, there's a lot of bad info in this thread...

1) You do not have to notify ATF of any changes, permanent or otherwise. It's merely a request on their part, you need not comply and there are many good reason not to.

2) It is simply not true that one must be able to retain to original Form 1 configuration. There's nothing compelling you to do so and ATF cannot withhold or deny a transfer approval over mismatched info on configurations. Would love to find the source of this persistent internet myth and punch him...


Nothing I said was wrong in any way shape or form. I am a little baffled why you would quote my reply and state what you did.
You parroted what I said...


With "^ this" you seemed to be agreeing with the statement that you must be able to return to the original configuration, which is entirely untrue and incorrect. It's a fairly common Internet myth, but untrue nonetheless. If an examiner tries to hold up a Form 4 because the listed configuration doesn't match the original one, you call them on the phone to explain to them or their supervisor that it doesn't need to. This sort of bureaucratic creep always goes away with a simple phone call, letter writing or procedure adoption is not how to handle this very infrequent issue.
Link Posted: 2/13/2013 5:07:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 9:39:05 AM EDT by Homeinvader]
Originally Posted By colt-fan:
You guys do what you want. I will listen to the person who approved my form 1. Also to answer posters question no there is no wait. Just send in the letter that the ATF requests. People are correct that this is not an absolute requirement but many ATF agents are not sure of the requirement. I choose to cover myself and put in a simple letter stating my intent to use additional uppers.

Also you don't even need to own the original upper configuration. You just have to put it back that way if you sell gun as complete rifle.
.02


Of course you can do whatever you like, just don't call it a requirement. That's my biggest issue here. And again, you don't need to be able to return to the original configuration. Nothing in law, regulation or even internal procedure conforms to this, so this should give you a moment of pause before accepting it as fact from an examiner, SOT or anyone else. While I agree examiners occasionally put applications into problem status for this, a phone call, with 100% efficacy, will resolve this and get your application back into processing.

You have to understand that examiners are not gun people nor do they know the law very well. They process paperwork, that's all. Most of them could not tell the difference between an M16 and an MP5. To rely on their advice, even for procedural or administrative issues, let alone legal, is silly. If something doesn't sound right, then push them to explain or talk to their supervisor.

ETA: I don't mean to suggest that this is some sort of illegal regulation coming out of NFA Branch, not at all. This is almost entirely a customer-side myth. 99% of transfers involving mismatched configurations are processed as-is without a hitch because that's the law. One in a hundred is flagged for some clerical error or misunderstanding, but again, this is cleared up with a simple phone call, not with letter writing and certainly not by following their erroneous instruction.
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 7:42:22 AM EDT
I see what happened....


Agree
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 1:41:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
With "^ this" you seemed to be agreeing with the statement that you must be able to return to the original configuration, which is entirely untrue and incorrect. It's a fairly common Internet myth, but untrue nonetheless. If an examiner tries to hold up a Form 4 because the listed configuration doesn't match the original one, you call them on the phone to explain to them or their supervisor that it doesn't need to. This sort of bureaucratic creep always goes away with a simple phone call, letter writing or procedure adoption is not how to handle this very infrequent issue.


Just curious as to why they ask barrel length, OAL and caliber on the form?
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 3:03:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 3:53:21 PM EDT by Homeinvader]
Originally Posted By BearArmy:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
With "^ this" you seemed to be agreeing with the statement that you must be able to return to the original configuration, which is entirely untrue and incorrect. It's a fairly common Internet myth, but untrue nonetheless. If an examiner tries to hold up a Form 4 because the listed configuration doesn't match the original one, you call them on the phone to explain to them or their supervisor that it doesn't need to. This sort of bureaucratic creep always goes away with a simple phone call, letter writing or procedure adoption is not how to handle this very infrequent issue.


Just curious as to why they ask barrel length, OAL and caliber on the form?


It defines the rifle you are making or transferring, which is added to the registry. It's also intended to identify the rifle are being properly Title II under the authority of the National Firearms Act, though they don't pay as much attention to this as they used to. If you were to submit a Form 1 for an SBR with configuration data indicating it's still a Title I firearm, like 16" barrel and 27" OAL, they would previously send it back stating the rifle you intend to make does not fall under the National Firearms Act. They don't pay that close attention anymore...
Link Posted: 2/14/2013 9:05:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Amphiprion:
Thanks for all the info. I wasn't sure where to post this question as this is my first post on this board. I'll write the NFA regarding the new uppers. Does anyone know if an answer will take 6 months like the tax stamp?


OMG people stop writing letters to the ATF!!!
Thats what AR15.com is for. ASK US FIRST.

We may see the day the ATF demanding written approval of ANY caliber or barrel length changes...
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 11:50:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AN94NK:

OMG people stop writing letters to the ATF!!!
Thats what AR15.com is for. ASK US FIRST.

We may see the day the ATF demanding written approval of ANY caliber or barrel length changes...


AMEN

Or better yet, read the documents at the ATF's website, they really do explain most things well.
Then if you're still confused, come ask for clarification. Many of us have been down this road
before and can 'guide' you. The more clarifications asked for in writing from them, the more
restrictive the laws/regulations seem to get...
Link Posted: 2/15/2013 8:41:17 PM EDT
Got it. No letter. I will build the upper when things get back in stock
Top Top