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Posted: 12/16/2003 6:19:38 PM EDT
Click here to read my FAL purchase experience with ORF.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:30:08 AM EDT
Nice rifle and good review.  
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:41:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 3:43:00 PM EDT by Mucor]
Functional problems right off?  Sounds like a century POS to me.  Glad they took care of you to make it right however.  I think it's better to spend a few more bucks and get the real deal at DSA.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:45:22 PM EDT
Uh huh and DSA never turns out a rifle with minor problems?  What would a comparable rifle cost from DSA?  Not everybody has a grand plus to drop on a rifle.  Did ORF make it right?  Apparently they did.  For you to compare them to Century is down right libelous.  I have had some good Century products, and some bad ones.  Century's customer service sucks, but their price is right.  However, you would never get Todd's level of service out of Century.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:56:56 PM EDT
A grand? Don't know where you're buying your DSA STG-58's from, but I paid $795 + $15 (ship) for mine. And yes, any rifle made by man can have some issues right out of the box. But, DSA's tend to be far less and infrequent unlike your prized CIA POS.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:22:09 PM EDT
Sounds like good customer service to me.  Always glad to read that.

I have a DSA which had teething problems.  In the end it cost me shipping to send it back but they made it right.

To me, the important part is do they stand behind their product or screw you off like ASA.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:45:18 PM EDT
I saw your thread on Falfiles a couple of weeks ago. What a sweet FAL. The way you spec'ed it, is almost exactly like I want done.

Good choice.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:25:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
A grand? Don't know where you're buying your DSA STG-58's from, but I paid $795 + $15 (ship) for mine. And yes, any rifle made by man can have some issues right out of the box. But, DSA's tend to be far less and infrequent unlike your prized CIA POS.



Well my "friend" my CAI L1A1 has never had one failure to feed or function in any regard.  Not one.  I paid $350 for mine with a bag of mags.  So we both got fully functioning FALs, I paid less than half of what you did.  Your's is prettier, but mine is a shooter and shoot it does.

Second, we are not talking about a CAI FAL here, we are talking about an ORF FAL which is still less than your DSA.  He also has a carbine, please advise which DSA carbine is available for $795.  I checked, DSA price dor the SA58 is in excess of $1,200 retail as I recall... I'm guessing dealer price is around a grand or so.

So how about you learn to compare apples to apples, or is that too difficult for you?
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
A grand? Don't know where you're buying your DSA STG-58's from, but I paid $795 + $15 (ship) for mine. And yes, any rifle made by man can have some issues right out of the box. But, DSA's tend to be far less and infrequent unlike your prized CIA POS.



Well my "friend" my CAI L1A1 has never had one failure to feed or function in any regard.  Not one.  I paid $350 for mine with a bag of mags.  So we both got fully functioning FALs, I paid less than half of what you did.  Your's is prettier, but mine is a shooter and shoot it does.

Second, we are not talking about a CAI FAL here, we are talking about an ORF FAL which is still less than your DSA.  He also has a carbine, please advise which DSA carbine is available for $795.  I checked, DSA price dor the SA58 is in excess of $1,200 retail as I recall... I'm guessing dealer price is around a grand or so.

So how about you learn to compare apples to apples, or is that too difficult for you?



A DSA STG-58 is available from FAC for $795
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:58:42 PM EDT
Sure thing HumpRanger, I paid $845 + $15 (ship) for the carbine version. These are kits guns we're talking about so, why don't you compare apples to apples. No need to go hunting down more expensive SA-58 models. So, it's $795, or $845 + $15 to ship, do tell how that adds up to a 'grand plus'.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 7:09:15 PM EDT
Resulting to childish insults really helps your case.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 7:13:16 PM EDT
Heh, no case to make.. but, it's not unlike your "or is that too difficult for you?" comment.

Here's something productive for you to do hiram, go whine to staff some more and get a few more threads trashed. We all know you had 'no other choice'.


:)
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:23:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 10:24:31 PM EDT by Mucor]
You guys are being silly.  
Be nice and make up  
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 8:47:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mucor:
You guys are being silly.  
Be nice and make up  





What he said. (and my dad can beat up yer dad)
AB
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 3:10:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 3:11:12 AM EDT by K-9Bob]
I had a DSA 16" Carbine that spent more time on the back of the UPS truck than in my gun safe.  Dave Selvaggio never could get that gun to run right either, so I sold it.

I also bought a FAL carbine from Ohio Rapid Fire and Todd Grove cut the barrel and threaded it improperly, so the brake had a slight downward droop. It ran fine, but it looked funny with the drooping brake.

The moral of the stroy is.......nobody is perfect and you usually get what you pay for. As for me I'm still looking for the perfect FAL Carbine. I just haven't found one yet.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:46:41 PM EDT
Gee, I left you guys for a couple of weeks and look what happened. I didn't mean to start a shoutting match.
No one is perfect all the time. It's how they take care of you when things go wrong. Do I wish my ORF FAL worked right out of the box- of course I do. However, ORF stood behind the product and make sure that it didn't cost me any money to make things right. Yeah, it cost me time to have to box it up and take it to UPS. But that would be way too picky.
DSA makes mistakes, too. They are too big to build me a STG FAL with an 18" barrel and trigger tuned to 4.5# to 5#.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:57:29 PM EDT
HiramRanger AND Bullet, guys, cut that shit out, both of you.

HUNTER.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 12:46:09 PM EDT
nice looking rifle.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 3:59:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HUNTER223:
HiramRanger AND Bullet, guys, cut that shit out, both of you.

HUNTER.



You get em man.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 4:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mucor:
Functional problems right off?  Sounds like a century POS to me.  Glad they took care of you to make it right however.  I think it's better to spend a few more bucks and get the real deal at DSA Fabrique Nationale.




www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=14724141
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 5:06:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2003 5:08:19 PM EDT by Dru]

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
A grand? Don't know where you're buying your DSA STG-58's from, but I paid $795 + $15 (ship) for mine.



How much in dealer transfer fee did you pay?

I can tell you right now that same rifle (the DSA) in my area of florida would be just a few cents shy of the original belgian I posted a link too above! No the dealers won't just order it for you , no the dealers won't transfer it for you just buy what ever the fuck is on the wall!

I've seen Hesse Fal's going for $1200 in my neighborhood gun stores! Hell I did'nt pay that much for my SAR 48!




Link Posted: 12/29/2003 5:42:45 PM EDT
I paid $20 to the dealer. You can get these from FAC for the same 'dealer cost' as DSA. I think someone posted a link above for it. I paid DSA directly for my guns, via my credit card. The receiving ffl just had to give 'verbal' approval to them before they completed the transaction.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 6:11:08 PM EDT
Sadly, many dealers won't do that... and if they do, they will charge you a ridiculous transfer fee... I've seen it at 10-20% of the suggested retail of the rifle to discourage it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2003 6:26:26 PM EDT
Discourage it? Now why would they want to do that? DSA gave me the local FFL's name that did my transfer. I never met him before buying the DSA guns. He wanted $20 for the paperwork, he never saw, nor touched the money I used to pay for the gun. The link to FAC is gone, so.. here it is again for those that can't get a local dealer to buy it from DSA...


www.facamerica.com/006.asp
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:38:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 12:39:34 PM EDT by Dru]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Sadly, many dealers won't do that... and if they do, they will charge you a ridiculous transfer fee... I've seen it at 10-20% of the suggested retail of the rifle to discourage it.



Yea that was the point of my whole post above... Most won't do it in my AO and I can't make them do it! Most say they don't want the hassle of a) sending in the copy of the ffl to a dealer/wholesaler who doesn’t already have it on file or b) just don't want the hassle of paperwork!

They will say "Buy whats on the wall!" no sorry I wouldn't give you two nickles to rub together let alone $1200 for a hesse!

Anyhow.......
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 1:12:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Discourage it? Now why would they want to do that? DSA gave me the local FFL's name that did my transfer. I never met him before buying the DSA guns. He wanted $20 for the paperwork, he never saw, nor touched the money I used to pay for the gun. The link to FAC is gone, so.. here it is again for those that can't get a local dealer to buy it from DSA...


www.facamerica.com/006.asp



It all depends, are they the only shop in town?  If so you have to deal with them, and they know this.  Why would they take $20 if they could either make a couple hundred in mark-up from their stock or charge you some ridiculous transfer fee?  Luckily you and I don't have to deal with these shady types of business transactions.

My personal feeling is that dealers should not legally be allowed to refuse to do transfers.  They are operating on restricted government licenses and you must legally work through them.  As a result, they should not be able to hold you hostage as they do.  However, dealers can refuse to do transfers and they can charge what they want for their service.  Ask SteyrAug, I'll never forget when he refused to do a transfer for a kid who just ordered a rifle and had it shipped to Steyr without asking.  Steyr was going to send it back and stick the kid with the shipping charge and no rifle.  Not sure how that ever turned out.

Anyway, you can check the shotgunnews.com website for an FFL database and you can usually post in the hometown forum and find the name of a local dealer who will do as Bullet suggests and allow you to pay for the rifle and then just a nominal fee for the transfer.  Problem is, no guarantee that the dealer will be in town, sometimes you have to drive... but it can be worth it.
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