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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/22/2006 2:27:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 3:29:28 PM EDT by triburst1]
I bought this slightly used Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 9mm GLOCK mag configuration from another board member a couple months ago. While, I really just bought it as an affordable "fun gun," I can't say enough good things about it. It uses the same mags and ammo as my daily carry gun, the GLOCK 19. I thought this would be a good quality to have in a cheap plinker, but I keep thinking of more real world uses for it every day.




IT'S ACCURATE.

The other 9mm carbines I have compared it to are the Bobcat BW-5, a Vector UZI carbine, a Beretta CX4 Storm, and a Colt CAR. The Kel-tec is more accurate than the Bobcat or Uzi, and at least as accurate as the Beretta and Colt. I can shoot quarter size groups at 50 yards with open sights, and it shoots much smaller groups at 100 yards than my Chinese AK.

IT'S RELIABLE.

I have put 1300 rounds through it in the last few weeks with no cleaning and ZERO malfunctions. The ammo I have used includes Wolf 115 grain, Winchester white box 115 grain, Winchester 147 grain TCFMC, Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +p, Federal Hydroshok 147 grain, and Remington Golde Sabre 124 grain +p.

IT'S LIGHT.

At 4 lbs, the Sub2000 is extremely light for a centerfire autoloading carbine. The Beretta and Ruger carbines are considerabley heavier than the Kel-Tec, at 5.75 and 6.38 lbs respectively. It is also lighter than a 10/22 at 4.25 lbs and even some larger handguns such as the Desert Eagle. Besides being easier to carry for long periods of time, the scant weight also lends itself to easier handling. I can chew the center out of a man size silhouette at 100yards firing one handed from the shoulder.

IT'S CHEAP.

With a MSRP of $381, the Kel-Tec can be had for half the price of many of its competitors. I generally see them new from $289-$315 and used from $220-$250. That is a bargain by any standard.

IT'S VERSATILE.

You can have the Sub2000 in four different flavors in two calibers to match your favorite pistol. 9x19mm and .40S&W in GLOCK, SIG, Beretta, and S&W magazine configurations. For me, the GLOCK 9mm was a no brainer as it matches my carry piece. This version also has the added advanatge of utilizing cheap 33 round G18 mags.

IT FOLDS.

This novel feature is the icing on the cake. When folded in half, the Sub makes a handy 16x7" package than can be stashed in a briefcase, laptop bag, tool box, backpack, under a car seat, or even slung under a coat. This feature provides the ability to carry a semiautomatic centerfire carbine in places where previously only a handgun was possible.



The uses of such as weapon are almost limitless. I have become fond of carrying my Sub2000 in a laptop bag with a few 17 and 33 round mags, 2-way radios, compact binoculars, spare Surefire, spare batteries, energy bars, first aid kit, multi tool, survival knife, and other emergency gear. All of this in a compact package that weighs around 6 lbs and can be carried discreetly almost anywhere. It is right at home riding next to me on the passenger seat of the car.

The Sub2000 would make an excellent hiking or biking gun. A tricked out M4 would draw more than strange looks on most public trails, while the Kel-Tec in a backpack would disappear in plain sight. It could also be useful if you were forced out of your home in SHTF situations. In the aftermath of hurricanes or riots, even a law abiding citizen would probably draw unwanted attention by openly carrying an AK or G3 through the streets. The Kel-Tec could be carried in a bag or under a coat and deployed in less than 2 seconds when needed.

I don't pretend that a pistol caliber carbine is any more than just that. If forced into a fire fight, I would MUCH rather have one of my ARs, AK, or FAL. A pistol round fired from a sholder weapon is still better than the same round fired from a handgun. The old saying that a .22 in the pocket is better than a .44 at home also holds true for long guns. A 9mm carbine in the car is better than a Garand in the safe.

Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:45:38 PM EDT
those are slick little weapons
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:26:09 PM EDT
I'll have to look into this some more. I also carry a G19. 33rnd mags are nothing to shake a stick at.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 3:37:39 PM EDT
Huh...pretty cool. Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:18:36 PM EDT
Yep, I have always thought highly of them as well.


It's on my list of several thousand guns I hope to some day own
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:12:27 AM EDT
i've been thinking about getting one of these as well but I shoot lefty and have heard a few leftys say that they get a face full of crap for every round shot. anyone here know if this is true?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:51:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 12:51:22 AM EDT by 20iner]


I think I found my first trunk gun.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 1:18:07 AM EDT
nice piece. wouldn't mind having one of those.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 1:28:04 AM EDT
I have been considering one, but I can't find the Beretta version in my dealer's catalogs, I may have to get one over the net I guess.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 1:49:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 1:52:32 AM EDT by BerlinVet]
Beretta doesn't exactly make a version of the Kel-Tec.

They do however, make a carbine called a CX4 Storm and I'm sure there's a bit of a difference in cost.

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 2:27:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BerlinVet:
Beretta doesn't exactly make a version of the Kel-Tec.

They do however, make a carbine called a CX4 Storm and I'm sure there's a bit of a difference in cost.

www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%20CX4_Storm/CX4_3.gif



KelTec makes a version of the sub2000 that takes beretta mags.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 2:28:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
I have been considering one, but I can't find the Beretta version in my dealer's catalogs, I may have to get one over the net I guess.



I think you mean the Keltec that takes Beretta Mags right?

Max
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:16:51 AM EDT
I would buy a Glock carbine if if folds up like the Kel-Tec.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:16:55 AM EDT
I had one and I agree that it is one cool litle gun. Very reliable and quite accurate. I wasn't real fond of the trigger that can best be described as squishy.The real reason I let it go is the sights. For me they were mounted a hair low. I was forced to mash my face in a real hard cheek weld to get a proper sight picture.I guess I have a fat head or something. Point being one should check out the gun carefully to see how the sight picture works for you before purchase. I was actually about to cast up some lead weights to fit in the plastic front handguard to give it more foward weight as I thought at the time this might help keep the sights on target for faster follow up shots. I was playing with this gun at carbine plate shoots and being blowback and such a light unit it does hop around some as the bolt slaps back and forth. Fun gun!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:53:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
I have been considering one, but I can't find the Beretta version in my dealer's catalogs, I may have to get one over the net I guess.



Kel-Tec is a small shop and they make their products is "batches," retooling the factory for whatever they are making at a given time. They may make P-32s and Sub2000s for a few months, and then maybe P-11s and .223 rifles for a while, etc. Thye haven't made a batch of Sub2000s in a few months, so new ones are kind of hard to find right now. I checked with a dozen dealers and several distributors and nobody had the GLOCK model I wanted. Luckily, I found one on the EE. They should be doing a run of carbines any time now.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:02:33 AM EDT
I handled a used one in .40 at a local fun shop a few months ago.

I liked the way it handled, do not care for the .40 since I too have a G19 and a lot of mags.

IIRC the price was $250 with a bag of some sort.

I believe there is a company that produces some accessories for the line, Blue Code, maybe??

Thanks for posting your pics, I am intrigued.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:09:15 PM EDT
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:33:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags



There is a G19 model, but my carbine is a G17 version. I use 17, 19 and 33 round mags in the carbine, and I always carry the larger 17 and 19 round mags as spares for my G19.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 1:42:25 PM EDT
Hold please......Plagerism in progress
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 2:10:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
Hold please......Plagerism in progress



???
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:10:29 PM EDT

I just picked up a Glock 22 version of the Sub-2000.

Neat little carbine. I have not shot it yet.

The first thing I noticed is it needs a Hogue slip-on grip. The grip has sharp edges and there is some kind of cut-out near the bottom front that digs in my hand. Easy fix though.

I ordered a metal charging handle and stock tube cover from Blue Force Gear. They used to make a metal front sight base that clamped on the barrel and took AR15 sight posts, but they discontinued it. The plastic FSB is the one thing I am leery about.

Also, it has a manual bolt hold open, but it does not lock back on an empty mag.

For $250, I had to have one. Heck, I may buy another for my other vehicle's trunk.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:19:29 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:30:46 AM EDT



i've thought about getting one too.

i wonder what the legalities of carrying something like that around in a bag are though... i feel like the MAN could get you for something.


Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:42:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:


i've thought about getting one too.

i wonder what the legalities of carrying something like that around in a bag are though... i feel like the MAN could get you for something.





Not in Kentucky. My CCDW permit allows me to carry concealed any deadly weapon I can legally own. Auto knives, SBRs AOWs, SMGs, even explosives are listed in the statute.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:39:31 AM EDT

Went shooting today.

Unfortunately, I was not all that impressed.

As someone mentioned earlier, the sights do sit too low to get a good sight picture. I had kind of tilt my head sideways to line up my eye w/ the sights.

Also, the metal tube on your cheek is not comfortable. I have ordered a plastic cover for it made by Blue Force Gear, but I am afraid that my raise my cheek weld even more.

My carbine was about 3 feet high and right at 75 yds. I forgot to bring the manual, and I couldnt figure out how to get the sights right. I moved the front sight back and forth, put it never put my shots on target.

I had several FTF's using WWB and CCI blazer brass and 3 different new Glock mags. The round would not seat all the way, forcing me to push forward on the charging handle to get it to set in. This happened about 6-8 times in 200rds. I think I may polish the feedramps and just give it time to break in...

The LOP is too long. With a little carbine like this, I wanted to het into a CQB stance, but could not. The stock kept working its way up my shoulder, until it was nearly sitting ontop my shoulder. Then the sharp bottom corner of the stock would dig in my shoulder.

Overall, if I can get it on paper at 50-75yds, I'll keep it. The quality seems ok, for a $250 gun. All my gripes are design related. Raise up the sights and shorten the LOP by 3 inches or so, and it would be GTG.



Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:46:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MP906:
Went shooting today.

Unfortunately, I was not all that impressed.

As someone mentioned earlier, the sights do sit too low to get a good sight picture. I had kind of tilt my head sideways to line up my eye w/ the sights.

Also, the metal tube on your cheek is not comfortable. I have ordered a plastic cover for it made by Blue Force Gear, but I am afraid that my raise my cheek weld even more.

My carbine was about 3 feet high and right at 75 yds. I forgot to bring the manual, and I couldnt figure out how to get the sights right. I moved the front sight back and forth, put it never put my shots on target.

I had several FTF's using WWB and CCI blazer brass and 3 different new Glock mags. The round would not seat all the way, forcing me to push forward on the charging handle to get it to set in. This happened about 6-8 times in 200rds. I think I may polish the feedramps and just give it time to break in...

The LOP is too long. With a little carbine like this, I wanted to het into a CQB stance, but could not. The stock kept working its way up my shoulder, until it was nearly sitting ontop my shoulder. Then the sharp bottom corner of the stock would dig in my shoulder.

Overall, if I can get it on paper at 50-75yds, I'll keep it. The quality seems ok, for a $250 gun. All my gripes are design related. Raise up the sights and shorten the LOP by 3 inches or so, and it would be GTG.






The sight height works fine for me, but having the LOP 2-3" shorter couldn't hurt.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:32:45 PM EDT

Was your gun pretty much on-paper out of the box?

I moved my front sight (the elevation adjustment is cheesy as hell), but my shots didnt seem to move much.



Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:26:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MP906:
Was your gun pretty much on-paper out of the box?

I moved my front sight (the elevation adjustment is cheesy as hell), but my shots didnt seem to move much.






It was a few inches low on POI, but I got it on with about 12-15 shots.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:31:08 PM EDT
I guess I am lucky, my was about 2 inches to the left and all it took was 1/2 a turn to bring it to the right and that was it. I love this thing. It folds so nicely that it almost looks illegal.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:45:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BerlinVet:
Beretta doesn't exactly make a version of the Kel-Tec.

They do however, make a carbine called a CX4 Storm and I'm sure there's a bit of a difference in cost.

www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%20CX4_Storm/CX4_3.gif



Something like that is what Glock should make if they would get their head out of their ass. They wouldn't be able to keep them in stock for at least the first year or two. I don't know what in the hell they are thinking?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:48:39 AM EDT
Looks like the kinda stick that grows on you...congrats
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:00:51 AM EDT
It would be nice if they came out with a bullpup version. That would make it even more compact without having to fold the gun in half.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:10:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By str8t1:
It would be nice if they came out with a bullpup version. That would make it even more compact without having to fold the gun in half.



That wouldn't work. The gun is only 30" long as it is. If the bullpup was less than 26" long, it would have to be registered as an NFA weapon.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:16:08 PM EDT
I've had one before, but I coukdn't aim with 'cause the stock was so short...
Maybe I'll get another one and put a laser on it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:58:55 PM EDT
Does the cocking knob/handle reciprocate on these when firing?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:24:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By manowar669:
Does the cocking knob/handle reciprocate on these when firing?



yes
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:25:51 AM EDT
Never any issues with that knob catching on gear when firing? I was really looking at these, exactly as the model described to go with my Glock, and because I think my 9mm AR is clumsy and overly heavy (Oly system with Sten mags, load that sucker onto a normally light/handy AR, and now it weighs 11 pounds, might as well have an M14). This Sub-2000 looks light and handy. Maybe needs a few mods, but interesting.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:32:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By manowar669:
Never any issues with that knob catching on gear when firing? I was really looking at these, exactly as the model described to go with my Glock, and because I think my 9mm AR is clumsy and overly heavy (Oly system with Sten mags, load that sucker onto a normally light/handy AR, and now it weighs 11 pounds, might as well have an M14). This Sub-2000 looks light and handy. Maybe needs a few mods, but interesting.



Only problems I have ever heard of with the charging handle were people who were shooting from a bench with their hand under the stock. It is not a problem at all in normal firing.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:17:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags



There is a G19 model, but my carbine is a G17 version. I use 17, 19 and 33 round mags in the carbine, and I always carry the larger 17 and 19 round mags as spares for my G19.



I am a little confused. If you can use 19 magazines in a G17 model, what's different about the G19 model?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:06:55 AM EDT
I have one that takes the S&W mags, amazing piece of plastic.

Great little gun for taking out dillos when I' out walking our property.


Once, and I have witnesses, about 4 of my buddies and I were out walking on the property that my family owns, doing a little target practive and what not.
My buddy who was carrying my KelTec noticed a squirrel at the top of a very large oak, he took aim and dropped that little bastard with the last round in the mag.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:38:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By abnk:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags



There is a G19 model, but my carbine is a G17 version. I use 17, 19 and 33 round mags in the carbine, and I always carry the larger 17 and 19 round mags as spares for my G19.



I am a little confused. If you can use 19 magazines in a G17 model, what's different about the G19 model?



You can use G17 mags in the G19 model, but not the other way around. The carbine made to take G19 mags has a shorter grip.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:52:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 8:54:06 AM EDT by abnk]

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By abnk:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags



There is a G19 model, but my carbine is a G17 version. I use 17, 19 and 33 round mags in the carbine, and I always carry the larger 17 and 19 round mags as spares for my G19.



I am a little confused. If you can use 19 magazines in a G17 model, what's different about the G19 model?



You can use G17 mags in the G19 model, but not the other way around. The carbine made to take G19 mags has a shorter grip.



Right, and that's why I was confused. When you said you use 19 ones, I thought you were referring to G19 mags. Bad attention to detail on my part.

ETA: Based on the picture, it seems that the G19 model would have a very small grip. Have you handled one?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:12:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By abnk:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By abnk:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Glockhappy:
KIller setup. Do the Glock 19 mags fit it or are you just using G17 mags



There is a G19 model, but my carbine is a G17 version. I use 17, 19 and 33 round mags in the carbine, and I always carry the larger 17 and 19 round mags as spares for my G19.



I am a little confused. If you can use 19 magazines in a G17 model, what's different about the G19 model?



You can use G17 mags in the G19 model, but not the other way around. The carbine made to take G19 mags has a shorter grip.



Right, and that's why I was confused. When you said you use 19 ones, I thought you were referring to G19 mags. Bad attention to detail on my part.

ETA: Based on the picture, it seems that the G19 model would have a very small grip. Have you handled one?



Yes, and it does indeed have a very small grip about the length of a G26 grip. I could only get a two finger grip on it and I have fairly small hands.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:29:00 PM EDT
Hmmm, I never considered buying one of those......do they have a rail for optics on top?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:45:00 PM EDT
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