What's your experience/opinion of the most accurate 223 powder?
- Cost is not an issue ........ I hope.
- Has to meter easily = Not Varget
- Bullet is Hornady 75g BTHP
- Planned use is to feed my nuclear family's multiple AR's, as accurately as possible. All 1:7" or 1:8" twist.

Thanks Guys.

Update: ************************************************************************************

Hey Guys, Thanks for the huge response & help.
I have several ammo roles I am trying to simplify & narrow down with this one load.

-VOLUME SHOOTING – Yes, I essentially want my own “ammo factory”, not just stay a hand-loader ....... but don't we all ...... ?

-Once per month the local VA brings patients out to have wounded warrior-type shoots at the private range my friends & I built on my farm, with steel from 10 yards out to 500 yards. As this has evolved, we’ve come to notice the guys enjoy shooting long-range shooting off the bench more than hammering away at the close stuff, 3-gun style. I assume this is because most of them have injuries to their lower extremities that confine them to bench shooting. http://blackdaggermhc.org/Home_Page.html

-ACCURACY - I am hoping we can hand load more accurate ammo than what we are buying. To keep costs down, we have been buying imported steel-cased ammo, but it’s very disappointing trying to ring the steel at any sort of longer-range.

-SECONDARY NEEDS - Personally, if I’m setting up to do this in volume, I would like the benefit of having this load double as something I could use for personal defense & hunting if our societal situation decreased ammo availability/increased cost. The 75g BTHP works fair on game, much better than lighter & fmj loads. It also sounds like it works pretty good for a personal defense round. I currently use commercially loaded Barnes TSX to take these guys hog-hunting & for my own home defense. Again, these reloads would primarily be for target-shooting.

-COST vs VALUE - The 75g Hornady seems like the cheapest, heavy projectile that is adequate for hunting/defense and accurate 500yd plinking.

-RIFLES – The rifles we use are mine, so I can test these loads for pressure in each gun.

-LOADING METHOD– I load on a single-stage press, but would like the powder to be compatible with a progressive (Dillon), to save time.

-DATA – Haven’t decided on a powder to test yet. I’ll look up the powder mfg’s recommendations once I decide on 2-3 powders to try. I have many books & Quickload, but nothing with the newer powders in it. I've reloaded for years, but mostly to make subsonic loads you can't buy.


Looks like these are the powders suggested:
- Varget – Controversial on accurate metering?
- CFE-223, ball powder
- IMR-8208 XBR, short cut extruded. Measures well.
- Reloader 15 – but poor metering?
- AR Comp, short cut extruded. Measures well.
-  VV N540
- TAC - meters like water
- Win748 - meters like water
- H322
-  Accurate 2230

In my experience, it all depends on your individual rifle.
 

I know its hard to believe but in my load tests with the hornady 75gr h335 gave me very accurate results at  2450fps. Tac is a good option also but with a lee perfect powder measurer varget meters very good for me so thats what i use in my 75gr loads.

Accurate 2230?

but seriously thats all I've ever used

My AR's love H322.  I'm shooting lighter bullets though.

RE 15

i still love XBR 8208   but IF i had to use something different... RE15

I would add RE 15 but if you said easy to meter, then I am at a loss....

H335 for me, that is with a 55gn bullet at 25 gn's of powder though.

24.5 gr of AA 2520.   Ball powder and very accurate, but I have heard it is temp sensitive.  I normally use Varget for the hornady 75, but also like rl15.  With a redding measure I have not had issues with Varget.

VV N540 for the heavier bullets in 20"+ barrels has been the most accurate powder for all the Service Rifle shooters I know. It is like a match version of N140.

It's hard to beat Varget with Hornady 75 grain hpbt. That's a proven combination with a ling history of success for 7&8 twist rifles. Better than Reloder 15 or IMR 8208 based on my work ups.

CFE 223 is the best in five  8 twist ARs in our group for 52 to 77gn bullets.

With THAT bullet I'd try (and will eventually) CFE223, IMR8208XBR and maybe Rx15.  In that order.

I have no experience loading the bullet you're asking about, but I have a box sitting here waiting on me to gain some.

Has anyone used the load data on Hodgdon's website for the 75 JLK VLD for this bullet?  They look similar, but comparing the Hodgdon data with Hornady 8's for the HDY 75 HPBT makes me wonder.

pegleggreg:  What data are you using?

My two favorite powders so far are TAC and Win748.  They both meter like water, are very consistent, and can be used up to 77gr SMK.  (Sierra actually has a charge for 80gr with both, but I don't shoot 80's.)

I have loaded Varget, and while it meters ok, you're right that it's not the most consistent.  8208XBR is about half the size of Varget, and is about the same size as Re15.  8208XBR was OK for me through the Dillon Powder measure.  Not as good as the ball powders, but still good results down range.

A couple of the high power shooters I talk to have tried CFE223 and ARCOMP.  They like them and say that they get higher velocities with lower charges.  I haven't tested them to see what results I get, but I am tempted to try them at some point.  Right now, though, there is no need because TAC and Win748 do everything I need from 55gr to 77gr in my 1:8 and 1:9 guns.



For comparison, here is some data from some of my better groups:

Sierra 55gr HPBT with 25.4gr Varget in my 16" 1:9 were average velocity 2886.

Hornady 55gr VMAX with 24.2gr 8208XBR in my 16" 1:9 were average velocity 2726.  Similar results with the 55gr Sierra Blitzking.

53gr SMK with 24.4gr TAC in my 20" 1:8 average velocity 2991.

55gr SMK with 25.5gr Win 748 in my 20" 1:8 average velocity 2949.

Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT with 24.0gr TAC in my 20" 1:8 average velocity 2771.

It's not all apples to apples, but I have found that TAC is slightly cheaper and needs slightly less powder for about the same results as Win 748.  Win 748 is slightly more consistent and therefore slightly more accurate than TAC, but not by much.  I have heard that  Win 748 is temperature sensitive, and that TAC is not.  Haven't tested that theory out yet......

Varget.  

Varget is chunky but shoots teeny tiny groups.

Why does metering ability matter so much?  

Because people want to be ammo factories not hand-loaders.

24 grains Varget, 75grain Hornady BTHP all day long for my 16 in 1in 8 or 1in 7 barrels.  23.5 grains ARComp same bullet in my 24in 1in8 tubes

I load over 20K rifle rounds a year for personal use on my two Dillon 1050's.  All I use is Varget.

OK. So you have proven that it can be done. Apparently the OP did not think it could. Can you think of any other reason for his comment about Varget?

Too much reading on the errornet about how it bad Varget meters and how it's no good for progressive high volume reloading?

Totally depends on how accurate you want the ammo to be and what kind of shooting you are doing.  I loaded Varget using the Dillon powder measure on my 550.  Once I had the charge set, I threw ten charges and weighed them.  The charges were within 1.0gr of what they should be, which means to me that almost all the individual charges were within 0.1gr.  This is perfectly fine for me shooting high power and was ok for accuracy.

I guess that technically they could have been swinging wildly like some +0.3 and some -0.3, but when I test the individual charges they are much closer....

When I weigh out 10 charges of TAC or Win 748, they are within 0.4gr of the expected weight.  That tells me that more of the individual charges are exactly or almost exactly at the same charge.  Consistency equals accuracy in reloading.

There IS a technique for getting powders like Varget to meter more consistently, but since this is a family-friendly forum, I'm not gonna mention what it entails.

Hey Guys, Thanks for the huge response & help.
I have several ammo roles I am trying to simplify & narrow down with this one load.

-VOLUME SHOOTING – Yes, I essentially want my own “ammo factory”, not just stay a hand-loader ....... but don't we all ...... ?

-Once per month the local VA brings patients out to have wounded warrior-type shoots at the private range my friends & I built on my farm, with steel from 10 yards out to 500 yards. As this has evolved, we’ve come to notice the guys enjoy shooting long-range shooting off the bench more than hammering away at the close stuff, 3-gun style. I assume this is because most of them have injuries to their lower extremities that confine them to bench shooting. http://blackdaggermhc.org/Home_Page.html

-ACCURACY - I am hoping we can hand load more accurate ammo than what we are buying. To keep costs down, we have been buying imported steel-cased ammo, but it’s very disappointing trying to ring the steel at any sort of longer-range.

-SECONDARY NEEDS - Personally, if I’m setting up to do this in volume, I would like the benefit of having this load double as something I could use for personal defense & hunting if our societal situation decreased ammo availability/increased cost. The 75g BTHP works fair on game, much better than lighter & fmj loads. It also sounds like it works pretty good for a personal defense round. I currently use commercially loaded Barnes TSX to take these guys hog-hunting & for my own home defense. Again, these reloads would primarily be for target-shooting.

-COST vs VALUE - The 75g Hornady seems like the cheapest, heavy projectile that is adequate for hunting/defense and accurate 500yd plinking.

-RIFLES – The rifles we use are mine, so I can test these loads for pressure in each gun.

-LOADING METHOD– I load on a single-stage press, but would like the powder to be compatible with a progressive (Dillon), to save time.

-DATA – Haven’t decided on a powder to test yet. I’ll look up the powder mfg’s recommendations once I decide on 2-3 powders to try. I have many books & Quickload, but nothing with the newer powders in it. I've reloaded for years, but mostly to make subsonic loads you can't buy.


Looks like these are the powders suggested:
- Varget – Controversial on accurate metering?
- CFE-223, ball powder
- IMR-8208 XBR, short cut extruded. Measures well.
- Reloader 15 – but poor metering?
- AR Comp, short cut extruded. Measures well.
- VV N540
- TAC - meters like water
- Win748 - meters like water
- H322
- Accurate 2230

Pegleggreg - that sounds like a fantastic shooting organization that you are involved with!





Regarding RL15 and metering.  I've never had any problems with it in my Dillon measures.  It has a very similar cut to it as 8208XBR.  Some of the most consistent loads I ever loaded for 223 is with RL15.









 
 

You'd be on shaky ground getting the mods all hot and bothered.  Probably get a stiff time out sentence.  

BallC lot2 and tac and then H4895 and then varget from my barrels...

Too fast, I use AA2520. Just like the 2230, it meters like freaking water!

I use to hand load every .223 round with Varget pushing a 77hpbt.  I now throw it with a Lyman 55 powder measure, with a very small +/-.1 grain variance if that.  I have not seen a difference in group sizes.  I am, however, loading them up much faster.  ymmv

I have seen the damage first hand that can happen from loading extruded powder through a Dillon powder measure. I came in to my Gunsmiths shop on a Sunday morning 2 weeks ago and he was removing the 2nd half of a case from a rifle that had blown apart from improper metering. I quit using varget in my .223 loads even though it was really accurate. I went to H335 and it has done the same as Varget, plus I can run it through the bulk assembly line on my press, or load precision rounds on the single stage for the Varmint AR.

Varget nearly fills the entire case when I load it.  Did the smith happen to know how the malfunction happened?  I would think that to get enough powder for that much overpressure that the guy had to know he was doing something wrong.  

I have read a lot of posts in here where guys are loading past maximum values, just to get the hottest load they can.  I have always loaded for accuracy and not velocity, so I have not run into that situation.  It would be interesting to know the rest of the story.

Check out Nosler 77gn Custom Competition bullets, they sell bulk boxes for about $150/thousand. Very acurate bullet and the least expensive right now in the match type heavies.

Can a powder check station be set up on a 550/650 Dillon? If so I would run the Nosler with Varget using the primed Lake City pulled brass thats selling for about $110/K.

H 322 for the lighter bullets.  Like Varget but a finer "kernel" that meters much better.

FYI, You can't put enough Varget in a .223 case to blow up a gun.

 

The main point I was making was that extruded powders don't seem to meter well through a powder drop measure in some cases. A .223 case may not take a big enough charge to come apart, but it probably could create enough variance to effect accuracy. I don't know if this would hold true in a Hornady powder measure, but the dillons sure seem to be affected.

Er, YES!  Toothbrush!  -That's exactly what I was aluding to (but could not mention on a family friendly forum ).  

There are actual industry technical terms for using vibration to get powdered material to meter properly - its not just a reloading trick.

Awesome!  At least one other person saw the photo!  

OK, to actually contribute to the thread;

my favorite so far is RL15 for match loadings, but I have also used varget and H4895.  They work well if you throw, weigh, and trickle up.  
my fast and furious progressive favorites are WC844, BLC2, and W748.  I don't really have enough time on the new super powders like CFE 223, IMR8208 and AR Comp.   I don't have a big trust factor on ball powders at near max loadings, so I'm going slow with CFE223.

yep, seen more than a few guys on sniper's hide using the magic wands.   I do have an electric toothbrush but I doubt it has enough power for stick powders.

Put the vibrators away guys.

You simply need to ream your .223 Dillon powder funnel with a 1/2" to 1/8" tapered reamer to truly make it a "funnel" and not just a "soda straw".  Extruded powder will no longer bridge in the funnel.

I just topped off a case with Varget and stuffed a 90 grainer in it. Here... you shoot it...in your rifle.

Not a problem loaded to max AR mag length (~2.27").  How much Varget did you get into the case at that length?  20 grains?

I'm not going to salvage this train wreck.  Most of y'all know better.  AeroE