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Posted: 4/13/2002 9:38:06 AM EDT
I don't know whats up with this thing, baught a bushmaster e2s-shorty a few weeks ago and it's not giving me much love. First time at the range it was jamming, ok.. so try new ammo and magazine this time. I shot winchester,umc, and the south african stuff today. I was getting jams where the bolt gets stuck half way, problems feeding every other round near the end of my range session, and problems with the bolt getting stuck forward (having to yank really hard to get it back). Useing a orlite 30rd and a bushmaster 10rd magazine yieleded the same results. Took it back to the gun store right after and they will send it back to bushmaster. I hope they actually do something and don't just send it back. Anybody had these kind of problems???
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 9:57:53 AM EDT
I've had that ftf problem but traced it to a bad usgi mag. It usually happens when the next round to be stripped off the mag sits too low for the bolt to pick up correctly and slam home. The bolt on it's forward motion barely grabs the back of the cartridge and cants it as it is pushed through the feed lips. What you get is the tip of the cartridge jammed above the chamber at an angle between top of receiver and magazine and the bolt face slams into the lower part of the shell, gouging it or denting it. To correct that problem on an aluminum mag, I used padded pliers to slightly bend the feed lips upwards evenly so the cartridges sit higher in the mag. A millimeter made all the difference, now it's reliable as the rest.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:50:17 AM EDT
I agree with above^^. It is probably the mags you are using. Bushmasters are great rifles but there mags are crap. I have never used an Oralite so I can't comment on them but everything you describ points directly to the mags. You need USGI mags which you can get at www.ammoman.com.

I can almost garantee this is your problem.

Link Posted: 4/13/2002 10:52:05 AM EDT
I'm ordering 3 GI mags off gunsandammo.com. Just sounds kinda funny that both mags would suck, and cause so many problems? Sounds like a problem with the gun to me?
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 12:37:32 PM EDT
There are lots and lots of bad magazines out there. If your mags have worked well in another AR-15 it would be easier to blame the gun, but chambering a round in an AR-15 is relatively simple from the upper's perspective if the bolt is fully cycling.

The only thing going against that is the bolt getting stuck. When you get it back it will probably be cleaned and lubed but make sure you go over the whole thing and do detailed lubrication of all of the bolt components (especially the extractor per the manual) before you take it out again.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 12:59:31 PM EDT
I am having the same problems with my bushy. Jams every few shots, all magazines, thermold, bushmaster, GI. I have used south african, pmc, umc, winchester, and other ammo. There was another thread that ran a little while back and somebody had the same problems with his bushy. There are at least three of us with what seem to be identical problems and it happens with all mags and ammo? This is a problem with the gun.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:06:47 PM EDT
HOLD UP HERE. Did you properly clean the rifle before you first took it out to the range? I did the EXACT SAME THING last summer when I first got my V-match EVEN WITH USGI MAGS.

You need to use Break-free CLP. Take the gun apart, bolt assembly and all, and rub it down with CLP. Also, clean out the barrel with CLP, get the barrel extension as well with Q-tips. Also, it wouldn't hurt to lightly CLP the rails inside of the upper receiver. You should get a small and large bottle of CLP for this.


Link Posted: 4/13/2002 1:23:24 PM EDT
The mags you used were definitely bottom rung. I also have to ask, was the bolt and carrier properly lubed? That could be a problem also if you were running the rifle too dry.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 3:30:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 4:18:38 PM EDT
Where do I buy Breakfree CLP? And what is Remington CLP? Is it the same thing as RemOil? I feel so stupid...
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 4:28:59 PM EDT
How many rounds have you fired through it? Mine was the same way until I had fired around 200 rds, then it smoothed out and gave me no more trouble.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 4:30:57 PM EDT
When I got my First Bushmaster I had the 14.5 inch barrel with the 1.5 inch AK brake. From what I have read is seems like this problem happens with alot of brand new carbines. My first thought would be cleaning it and properly and lubeing. Followed By quality ammo (no Wolf) becuase of the tight chamber of a new rifle. Next would be good mags. Try only loading 5 rounds in the 10 rounders. The first 500-750 rounds were the toughest for me. After that she ran like a dream. A couple trips to the range I only used it as a single shot so it would not jam. I also cleaned it after every trip to the range when I first got it. Since the chamber was tight I wanted to keep it clean.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 4:37:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 8:54:27 PM EDT
It sounds like your rifle is not cycling the bolt all the way back. Then the rifle is partially feeding a round and getting stuck. A filthy gas tube is likely not the problem since the rifle is brand new. You could have too strong a buffer spring. You might try snipping a turn or two off the buffer spring. If that doesn't help and USGI mags don't work I don't know. For what it's worth I've only had that problem once and it was with a bushmaster.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 9:14:11 PM EDT
my 20 incher did the same thing on the first 100 rounds. Using USGI 30 rounders. Got some used 20s and haven't had any FTF's since. Do you know any one with an ar the has mags that work in their gun? see if they will loan you 1 or 2 @ the range. Try it. messes your world up after you shell out the green and the rifle doesn't work well. good luck.
these guys on this board really helped me keep my head straight when i went trough it. Thanks guys and girls.
Link Posted: 4/13/2002 9:50:08 PM EDT
I had a problem that was similar, but with a hard to spot problem. The barrel extension was turned to far into upper receiver. This created a sharper angle of the feed ramps. The rounds would be stripped off of magazine and the tip of rounds would jam into feed ramps causing a fail to feed. If you have another AR to look at see if the feed ramps seem to be further back into upper receiver.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 3:22:57 AM EDT
where was all this advise and opinion when I asked the same question yesterday!?!?

now ya gone and hurt ma feelins

Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:22:35 AM EDT
For all the money spent on a Bushmaster, you would expect it to function perfect right out of the box with no prepping other than a thin film of lube on the inner moving parts. With the other Bushy posts I've read, they seem to give more hassle than something similiar I can put together for $550. These mags work, but these don't, extended break-in is needed, jams are common for the first few hundred rounds (huh?) liberal amounts of oil is needed to get it to work, who wants to depend on a delicate rifle like that?

What really is the appeal of a Bushy other than getting a cool snake logo stamped on the receiver??????????
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:29:38 AM EDT
ArmaLite has a good tech note in the library at armalite.com that covers this subject. Bushy can't do much test firing or shooters complain of a used rifle so they fire a small number. Sometimes it isn't enough to raise the problem.

Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:45:10 AM EDT
I had to use forward assist on new BUSHY during a range session. When I inspected rifle I saw some pre-mature wear near that "lil half-circle cutout thingamigiggy " inside of upper.To get best view of this area -look through ejection port. My carrier was beating this area up(where the key would rub) and my gas-tube was getting chewed up. I did the 'test' to see if gas-tube was lined up and it was. One gunmith told me it looked normal(yeah right) and another told me the upper was 'warped'. Bushmaster would not give me a reason but they did replace the upper and gas tube.(They put my barrel on a new upper.) They did this is a very timely manner with no hassles.Initially on the phone they told me that sometimes people will use crappy ammo and get a loose primer stuck next to carrier and it will cause bolt not to close properly. I won't necassarily see this thread again so if anyone needs more details on my problem then email me.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:08:38 PM EDT
I Have a similar problem. Mine shoots the first 30 rounds when I first start and the next mag I insert goes to crap. From then on I might as well have a single shot.This is a new Armalite and I have been so frustrated. I'm tired of crankin it to shoot every round. Been to the range 3 times today thinking I might have the problem solved. Still stumped. Armalite gets an email from me tonight! I haven't tried pryin the ears of my mags up as mentioned earlier. I cant figure why the first 30 rounds shoot without a hitch and then single shot after that unless temp change is in the scenario somewhere. I appreciate all the input from the guys and gals who have responded. I'm always learnin--
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:25:33 PM EDT
Well, not make anyone mad, but the first and last bushy I had possesed a hammer that was slightly out of position. This was several years ago. My friends Eagle Arms (now Armalite)had problems feeding almost everything. I have never had a bad Colt. And I have always been able to sell them for more than I paid. But everyone can let bad product out the door. That is what warranties are for.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:41:29 PM EDT
I had a similar problem with my Colt MT, the last round would jam up every time. Factory mags would jam, so I bought a USGI 30 round at a flea market to try, and the gun functioned perfect!
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 5:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2002 5:49:31 PM EDT by z71rat]
Bushmaster M4 with "Y-Comp" muzzle brake. Straight out of the box and to the river. I have cleaned the weapon only 3 times now since I bought it back in November. Where is this story going??

Try 3500+ rounds of everything that fits in the chamber - without a hickup, feeding from whatever mag will fit in the magwell - without a hickup!!!! So far, it hasn't made a bit difference what I have shoved into her, she runs like a charm!!

No other AR15 that I have ever owned was as reliable - PERIOD!!!! So far to date, I have owned 8 AR15's from various manufacturers including Colt and Armalite.


I will never own anything but a BUSHY - PERIOD!!!!

Link Posted: 4/15/2002 11:10:23 AM EDT
My BM Shorty AK had the same problem, all I did was to make sure the gas rings in the carrier had their openings staggered. In other words, I made sure the little slits on the gas rings were NOT lined up in a line; thereby giving a better seal.

2000+ rounds later, not a single malfunction.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 12:57:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 1:24:00 PM EDT
One more thing you can check. I got a new Bushmaster 20" that didn't want to act right when I first got it.

Turned out the gas tube was not pinned in the front sight from the factory and was turning around, causing intermittent cycling problems.

To check for this remove your handguards, and pull/twist slightly on the tube, It should not move or turn if its pinned in correctly.

Link Posted: 4/15/2002 3:03:05 PM EDT
No offense to anyone, but when I spend 800$ on a rifle I don't want to have to make sure it was put toghter right (i.e. barrel too far in receiver, gas tube correct etc) it should just work.
If I buy a new car I don't wanna pull the heads off to check the valve to piston clearance
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 3:18:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/15/2002 4:24:21 PM EDT by ED_P]
AR-15's are mucho cool, no argument about it, and when I brought my Bushmaster last month I'd hoped it would become my new SHTF gun, replacing my AK due to it's accuracy at 100 yards, and my M1A, due to it's too loud report with a muzzlebreak, without hearing protection, and though I still think my AR is the coolest gun I own, a month at the range, and a couple small problems that cropped up have taught me that though it's a cool gun, it is:

A: Far more picky about ammo than my other "military" style rifles

B: Far more picky about mags being slightly out of shape.

I still am very glad I purchased it, but I've heard a "click" a few too many times when I've expected a "boom" at the range, and see a friend with a preban colt at the range who gets an occassional click when I'm courteously waiting for him to take a long distance shot.

When I shoot my AK or M1A, it goes "boom" everytime I pull the trigger, with my AR it seems the "click" happens a little more often than I'd like. Still glad I brought it though, as it is a cool gun.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 4:39:38 PM EDT
The main reason I went with Bushmaster in the first place was by the recomendation of a gunsmith friend of mine several years ago. I am experiencing the shoot, jam, shoot, jam problem with my most current build up. I have never had this problem with any other Bushy I have owned. I am taking notes here, hopefully one of these fine suggestions will fix this minor malfunction.

Link Posted: 4/16/2002 10:01:29 AM EDT
There's a new secret out there and a lot of people's minds are changing......Rock River Arms. superior quality
Link Posted: 4/17/2002 4:14:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
Where do I buy Breakfree CLP? And what is Remington CLP? Is it the same thing as RemOil? I feel so stupid...

I see Break-Free CLP all the time at Academy
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:07:40 AM EDT
Bushy will take care of it if it's a factory built rifle. Sometimes you end up with a rifle built up from a receiver and parts by God knows who.

Everybody has a goof from time to time but the good companies will take care of you. You did right to send it back.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:49:02 AM EDT
Nowhere in my area do I ever see Break-Free CLP or any other CLP for that matter...is it just me?
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 6:47:44 PM EDT
sniper wolfe I see BreakFree CLP at the local Wal-Mart in this area. And about the ftf problems; thats what I have been having with my new Bushmaster. Also been experiencing jamming problems too. The spent cartridge always ejects ok but the next round gets jammed at about a 30 degree angle between the chamber and mag. Less than 300 rounds thru it so far. Also the bolt fails to lock open when the last round is fired...not always but alot. Don't know if all these problems are because its new or something wrong with it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:37:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 7:48:17 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By Snikt:
If I buy a new car I don't wanna pull the heads off to check the valve to piston clearance

I'm always dismayed reading these kinds of posts. "It don't work, I wish I had an AK".

A car isn't a good analogy. If I buy a new car, my life isn't likely to depend on it. If it breaks down due to a factory defect, I call the company, they tow it and fix it.


This is true for ANY rifle you buy, the AR-15 is no exception.

Going back to the car analogy, would you expect that new car to run correctly if you didn't fill the gas tank, or change the oil? No.

I know it can be frustrating, but it is also a great learning opportunity. Sure, you can send it back to the factory and they will fix it, but if you might depend on this rifle to save your life, YOU NEED to learn the proper care & feeding, the proper diagnosis.

I have (4) AR-15's. My 1st, a Bushmaster, went back for an overtorqued barrel. My next 2 Bushmasters have been flawless. My 2001 RRA LEGP was erratic right out of the box. I took the time to diagonose the problem, and discovered a bad extractor. Once replaced, the gun has ran like a champ.

Am I happy my 2001 LEGP didn't work correctly right out of the box? Sure. But I wouldn't trade the learning experience for anything.

I'm buying ammunition in 5,400 round case lots, so that will give you some idea of what I've run through these guns. My best was 1,340 rounds in a couple hours at Black Fox's house. Zero problems.

I've diagnosed some bad mags. I've diagnosed (and repaired) insufficient tension on the magazine release. I've diagnosed bolt-over failures (USA mags - never again). All these things prepare me for real life conditions - dealing with the unknown. I've helped others with guns that didn't run, everything from improper cleaning & lubing to primers stuck under the trigger groups.

Look at it this way maybe - if you were going to run the Sahara Desert cross country race in a truck, wouldn't you want to know how to fix it? Wouldn't you feel that's a critical skill?

If you don't want to take the time and learn, following the military TM manuals, then ship it back and let Bushmaster fix it. If you've lost confidence, sell it and go to an AK.

However, if you pony up to the bar and follow procedures, clean lube & use quality mags & ammo, there is no reason your gun won't be 100% reliable, run like a champ, be a blast to shoot, and be a weapon you can depend on for your life, since IF something goes wrong, you will be prepared to deal with it.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 7:39:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2002 7:49:43 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By I_run_with_scissors:
There's a new secret out there and a lot of people's minds are changing......Rock River Arms. superior quality

They aren't perfect either. My 2001 LEGP didn't run correctly right out of the box either. Bad extractor.

This thread has bad Bushmasters, Colts, Armalites and Rock River guns. We can find other threads with troubled DPMS, Olyarms and Professional Ordinance.

All this tells me is that the factories do let some lemons slip, and that the problem is often traceable to the OPERATOR, not the gun.
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 8:15:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 6:30:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Most rifle problems that occur while using Klinton-reduced 10-round mags are the fault of the mag, not the rifle.........

See there, I knew it was the Sum'Bitches fault.......


River report - Saturday 4-13

450 more rounds - no jams - only 1 "short stroke" due to fickling or bump-firing as many call it!! I personally feel the short stroke is due to the fact the Mini Y-Comp brake is so damn effective!!
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 7:08:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
I can say this:

The #1 problem with ANY AR15 is failing to feed due to bad magazines. When you are testing a new AR, always use a known-good 20 or 30-round USGI magazine. In fact, try to have several, just in case.

Most rifle problems that occur while using Klinton-reduced 10-round mags are the fault of the mag, not the rifle.


The above statement should be permantly tacked to the front page of this site for all to see.

I have a home built frankingun with J&T parts. I have get to have a jam in over 3000 rounds.


PS But I still love my AK
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