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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/14/2003 7:12:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:33:36 AM EDT
You can find them at Fred's out of SGN. You'll also find them kicking around various other sources, but they are rare nowdays. Prices run from a low of $200 for dings and cracks to near $400 for a new condition one. They will be called either M14A1 or M14E2 stocks. Both terms are technically correct, the M14E2 became the M14A1 upon adoption (the "A") of the experimental (the "E") variation.

You should get the correct sling to go along with it. That attatches to the fwd pistol grip as well and when you pull on the FPG, the sling pulls down on the front end of the gun. It's meant to be used with the M2 Bipod, of which you can pay hundreds for a USGI or a couple bucks for a Chinese knock-off. The M2 bipod will scratch up the stock when folded by the way.

They are a rarity nowdays, so that's why the higher price. When they were avialable, not too many people wanted them on their guns. I found using one to be a bit odd, but it's not anythying you can't get used to. It's not a terrible design for what it's supposed to do.

I don't think that the price compares favorably to what you get, but gun stuff isn't all about practicality.

Ross
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 11:11:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:23:51 PM EDT
Yes, the pistol grip is an evil feature, and you only get one evil feature on the M14 type post-ban rifle. You could loose the flash-hider easy enough with a brake, though I dunno about the threads. I wouldn't want to have to weld the thing on.

Pre-ban is just like an AR. You can throw whatever on it.

The A1 stock adds quite a bit of weight to the gun. There's alot more wood in the butt area itself, and the rest of it is a tad thicker as well. You're looking at a noticable increase in weight over a USGI synthetic. Not like 10lbs or anything, but you'll be able to tell the difference when you just pick it up, let alone carry it.

Originally the M14 went along with the M15, which was a heavy barrelled version for the squad auto role. They dropped the M15 and just put bipods on the M14. After a few years of that, they figured out that wasn't quite right, so they made the M14E2 which had the pistol grip stock, muzzle brake, bipod, etc. It was adopted as the M14A1, and the end result was developing a rifle that filled the role of the rifle they dropped in the first place. The M15 would have been better in this role to begin with as it had a heavier barrel at least. The M14A1 still had a standard weight barrel. Oh well, that's the way the Army does things sometimes.

Given the weight of the M60, it was never god's gift as a SAW. I figured that one out the first time I humped the "pig" (we didn't have M249s back then). It weighed a ton. The M14A1 was probably OK for the role when everyone had M14's (though I think a separate M15 designed for that role would still have been better). When the Army switched to M16A1s, a couple of guys in the squad were issued those cheap stamped clothespin bipods. That was technically your SAWs. The M60 was the Platoon's heavy weapon, two to a platoon. In Vietnam they were often utilized in the SAW role, but as there were only two that meant one per squad, and one squad without. Needless to say, the M60 was not the perfect answer to a squad support weapon(though it did indeed ROCK when you needed it to!).

The major problem with the M14A1 was one of heat. The light barrel heated up quick, the M14 ROF is pretty fast, the barrel isn't exactly "quick-change", and it's a closed bolt design, so there's really no great way to cool it down. Being lighter than the M60 and taking common mags with the rest of the squad was a bonus in those days, but the M14A1 was just a bit too light-tubed for the mission.

Another option may be a BM-59 stock. Some of those had pistol grips and can be modified to fit the M1/M14. Don't know how much work would be involved, but it may be cheaper than the M14A1 route.

I think there are some other pistol grip stocks but they cost about as much as the GI one.

Ross
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:31:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:57:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
I had forgotten about those. Here's a link:www.reesesurplus.com/
they look interesting.



Thanks for the link, I forgot where I'd seen them. I think an M1 with one of those would be hot.

Ross
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:38:04 AM EDT
The rifle was the M14E1 when I qualified Expert on it a long time ago. I think it was already obsolete or at least not Standard A when it became the M14A1. Nice solid stock, but you need the bibod and a lot of sling pressure to keep the bullets on target when firing AUTO. Even 3 round bursts will go wild if you don't pay attention.

The standard M14 barrel was used and it didn't take AUTO fire well and got very hot, very fast. In a wood stocked rifle this can start the wood on fire or at least smoulder.

These stocks are rare because the Army never bought too many of them and then discarded the entire M14 system in favor of the M16.

-- Chuck
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:00:40 PM EDT
Also you have to be careful with some of the older stocks as the rubber buttpad is cracked and replacement parts are hard to get. Sometimes if you keep you eyes open in the back of Shotgun News there is a guy who sells modified M14 stocks with pistol grips on them. I have not seen his ads for a while though....

If you get one from Freds's be sure to buy the Rifleman's Guide..it is full of useful information about shooting rifles.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 6:33:01 PM EDT
Lots of good information here. I have a NFA Registered select fire M1A. If you get one of those and do any automatic fire the E2 stock, ventilated hand guard and M2 bipod is the way to go IMO. I bought a birch as new E2 stock from Fred's. Fred sent some literature on the E2 stocks and a free ventilated hand guard with the E2 stock. The stock looked like it had never been issued.

FM 23-8 lists the rates of fire for the M14 in semi-automatic and automatic fire. The comments above regarding the barrel and muzzle rise are spot on. I shoot my select fire M1A from the prone using the E2 stock, E2 sling, M2 bipod and muzzle stabilizer. This gives me the best results at staying close to the point of aim. I've learned in short order how to get two round bursts with the proper trigger technique.

According to what Fred sent me, there were only about 10,000 E2 stocks made and most them were made after 1963. They were walnut or birch. Most of the birch stocks were made by Canadian Arsenals Limited. Mine was as the maker's marks C A L are stamped under the rubber butt pad.

If you are shooting semi-auto then I recommend the standard model USGI stock. Disclaimer: Be advised regarding the comments above for post-'94 ban M1A rifles. Installation of a pistol grip stock may violate U. S. law.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 9:59:04 PM EDT
I also have a M-14, select-fire Mg and prefer firing FA w/the regular GI stock(w/bipods)over the E-2's. As I carried/used one extensively in '66', my only complaint was not being able to carry enough mags(I finally got some of the M-16 double mag pouches)and was able to put 10 w/frags around my skinny ass w/2 taped together in my rifle. Muzzle climb wasn't a problem during a night ambush-aim low w/a 18 rd. dump of tracers from 6 Marines at distances of 10 to 30 feet max and 120 or so tracers were in the 'kill' zone in 2-3 seconds. I do have 1 of Fred's E-2 stocks(Select Grade)w/sling that I'd be willing to sell, if anyone is interested.
Semper Fi
to all that served.
Tungsi
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