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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/29/2005 10:08:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 10:11:15 AM EDT by _DR]
I don't have one but want to build one. Here are, according to Jeff Cooper, father of the Scout Rifle concept, the features that define the scout rifle.


Total weight, around 6.6-7.7pounds
Overall length, around 36 inches
Bolt action must be capable of accepting stripper clips or detachable magazine
Caliber must be .308 Winchester or equivalent
Primary sighting system consisting of forward mounted optics in the 2x to 3x range with backup iron sights
Sling
Onboard ammunition carriers
Bipod (not required, but recommended)
Must be capable of hitting “real world” targets at “realistic ranges




Here is a pic of a conversion Scout rifle similar to what I would like to put together from a surplus rilfe, may use a Lee-Enfield or Mauser instead though, cut the barrel to 16" instead of 18".

Before and after




images from www.surplusrifle.com - click on link to see article.


I would be interested to see pics/descriptions of your Scout Rifles, whether homebuilt conversions or factory production Scout Rifles.

The Steyr Scout, a production Scout Rifle.



Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:50:12 PM EDT
You should look for a Swedish Mauser that's already been sporterized. 6.5x55 would do the trick.

Please dont Scout up a nice milsurp.

Scope mount on the rear sight, or a trigger is easily reversed. Military stock can always be put back on. Not so for a cut down barrel.

There are plenty out there that already have the barrels cut down.

Please, do it for the children
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 2:10:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
You should look for a Swedish Mauser that's already been sporterized. 6.5x55 would do the trick.

Please dont Scout up a nice milsurp.

Scope mount on the rear sight, or a trigger is easily reversed. Military stock can always be put back on. Not so for a cut down barrel.

There are plenty out there that already have the barrels cut down.

Please, do it for the children



I was thinking about one of the barreled receivers CDNN sells for $39. Nothing to mess up there really.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 7:30:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyquik:
You should look for a Swedish Mauser that's already been sporterized. 6.5x55 would do the trick.

Please dont Scout up a nice milsurp.

Scope mount on the rear sight, or a trigger is easily reversed. Military stock can always be put back on. Not so for a cut down barrel.

There are plenty out there that already have the barrels cut down.

Please, do it for the children



The things only cost 100-200 dollars so why not? Its not like they are rare or anything. I can understand if something is a collectable, but I don't consider something made in the tens of millions to be a collectable.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:54:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:11:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 10:11:28 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By raf:
Please note the height of the scope above the bore on the Steyr, and then the milsurp rifle.

This difference in height makes more of a difference than you would first believe.

Avoid any scout scope mount that mounts the bell of the scope more than 1/16" or so above the barrel. I kid you not.



Parallax error?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:24:34 AM EDT


Sporterized No 4 SMLE. I "scouted"
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:22:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 11:23:08 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By TimJ:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/willardri/EnfieldScout.jpg

Sporterized No 4 SMLE. I "scouted"



Now that I could do.
Local shop has No 1s for $89

Please expound on your forward rail mount as in where obtained, how mounted etc.

Thanks

_DR
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:30:27 AM EDT
Marlin 444P


Winchester M94 .30-30
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:37:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Marlin 444P
home.gci.net/~johns/marlin_scout.jpg

Winchester M94 .30-30
home.gci.net/~johns/winchester_scout.jpg



Very nice! Where did you get you mounts/what brand and what power are the optics?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:54:36 PM EDT
Forgive my ignorance, what exactly is the stated purpose of a "scout rifle?"
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 1:14:48 PM EDT by AlaskaJohn]

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By AlaskaJohn:
Marlin 444P
home.gci.net/~johns/marlin_scout.jpg

Winchester M94 .30-30
home.gci.net/~johns/winchester_scout.jpg



Very nice! Where did you get you mounts/what brand and what power are the optics?



All mounts and sights are from XS Sights.
Scopes are the Leupold 2.5x28mm Scout.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 1:34:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:


The things only cost 100-200 dollars so why not? Its not like they are rare or anything. I can understand if something is a collectable, but I don't consider something made in the tens of millions to be a collectable.



People didn't think that Springfields and Garands would ever be valuable, either, and bubba'd a bunch of them, too.

Don't wreck a piece of history. Find one that's already been wrecked.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:34:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By TimJ:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/willardri/EnfieldScout.jpg

Sporterized No 4 SMLE. I "scouted"



Now that I could do.
Local shop has No 1s for $89

Please expound on your forward rail mount as in where obtained, how mounted etc.

Thanks

_DR



Oof.. Chopping up WW1 surplus makes Baby Jesus Cry
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 3:24:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:58:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By TimJ:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/willardri/EnfieldScout.jpg

Sporterized No 4 SMLE. I "scouted"



Now that I could do.
Local shop has No 1s for $89

Please expound on your forward rail mount as in where obtained, how mounted etc.

Thanks

_DR



Oof.. Chopping up WW1 surplus makes Baby Jesus Cry



better than beating into plowshares!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:05:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 6:07:12 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By ASUsax:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:


The things only cost 100-200 dollars so why not? Its not like they are rare or anything. I can understand if something is a collectable, but I don't consider something made in the tens of millions to be a collectable.



People didn't think that Springfields and Garands would ever be valuable, either, and bubba'd a bunch of them, too.

Don't wreck a piece of history. Find one that's already been wrecked.



Unfortunately some unscrupulous gun dealers have bought up many of the CMP rifles and marked up the price 200% or more. I had the displeasure of seeing one of those at the Dallas Market Hall gun show last weekend. Almost all 50 of them had CMP certificates, nary a one under $850 that I could see, even the service grade rifles. That completely violates the spirit of CMP/DCM IMO which was to provide gov't surplus paid for w/taxpayer dollars at cost, not make a bundle of cash for greedy dealers.

That is one reason why the prices have gone up so much on the Garands and Springfield '03s

But in any case while I will no doubt keep some surplus rifles in museum status, these things are sold and bought to be used. I do think giving new life to an old relic has a sense of satisfaction too, if it is done well and not made a hack job.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Forgive my ignorance, what exactly is the stated purpose of a "scout rifle?"



clicky and read
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 6:08:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/Mini14.jpg



Very nice - it that a mini-14 or mini-30?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:31:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 9:42:47 AM EDT
While I'm thinking of it.. SARCO had a crapload of bubba'd Swedes in all sorts of shape the last time I was in their showroom, (NaziMart my girlfriend calls it).
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 1:04:54 PM EDT
Here's my Poodle Scout and Deer Scout. I tried the Scout mount sold for the Marlin 1984 but it would NOT fit my rifle for some reason. A bolt gun Scout in 6.8 SPC might be fun...

Paladin
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:00:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Forgive my ignorance, what exactly is the stated purpose of a "scout rifle?"



It was Colonel Jeff Cooper's idea for an ideal general purpose rifle, distilled from his expirience and trial and error over a couple decades. Think of it as the Jeep of rifles...light and nimble yet versatile.

Cooper's own words:
"a general-purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target."

An optimized general-purpose rifle designed by Jeff Cooper.
Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).
Length: 1 meter (39 inches)
Barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)
Sighting system: Forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary.
Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.
Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.
Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm) or 7 mm - 08 Winchester (7 x 51 mm), with .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.
Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.
Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

Versatile, the foward scope allows for quick sighting, 1 moa accuracy, with enough power to also anchor targets at 200 yds.

Simply putting a foward mounted scope on a rifle doesn't make it a scout rifle anymore than painting a pracing horse on a car makes it a Ferrari.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:12:46 PM EDT
The scout as desinged to kill any North American big game as well as to legged varmints. Cooper is very dissapointed that the Army no longer uses the 1903A3. He thinks the Scout would be a good weapon for military purposes.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 2:52:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 10:04:49 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:54:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:55:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 6:22:44 AM EDT by PALADIN-hgwt]
Parroting the gospel according to Jeff is NOT a substitute for actually getting out and using a pseudo-Scout. Which I have done for almost 10 years.

And ANYONE who advises a sub-7 pound 308 as a general purpose tool has not shot one extensively. They are whippy and hard to hold steady offhand. And recoil, especially during a long training session, becomes a nuisance and detriment to precision shooting. And if the gun is no fun to use, it won't be.

How about everyone with an "opinion" also post pictures of their own personal interperation of the Scout concept, instead of repeating information that was decided arbitrarily to meet Col. Coopers ideal over two decades ago. Do you Coopersque luddites really believe that nothing has been learned since then?

I would say that Cooper's Ideal has been so poorly received commercially that it demonstrates conclusively it was ....gasp...a less than perfect, probably unobtainable goal. The readily available and considerably less expensive alternatives such as Lever Scouts, the Mini-Scout, and Springfield Armory's interpetation actually acheive the goal of being GP tools.

Paladin

ETA: In a 7 pound rifle throwing a 150 grain bullet at 2800 fps, the free recoil is 19 ft.lbs. at a velocity of 13 fps rearward. The Springfield Scout at 10 pounds only recoils 13 fpe at 9 fps rearward, a reduction of over 30%, BTW.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:18:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 10:30:32 AM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:26:53 AM EDT
I'm not complaining about the specs.

You however don't seem to "get" something significant. "Eyetalyun trash" is not useful to West Texians. I need a vehicle with enough ground clearance to accomodate rough trail conditions. And my cattle dog detests the smell of wet leather on our return trips from the lake. So a car that turns you on might not fit my needs.

Inflexible pronouncements like "the best blah blah blah" are patently BS from the start, because they presume the needs of one user will suffice for all. And rigid thinking where one must follow a certain recipe exactly discounts the individual capacity to decide for themselves what is working for them. I do NOT defer my firearms decisions to a committee of strangers, however well qualified they might be...

As I stated, with 10 years of shooting a pseudo-Scout with COMPLETE SATISFACTION and fulfillment of my particular needs, "bending" Coopers rules has merit for some of us.

Paladin
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:24:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 9:25:37 AM EDT by raf]
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