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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 9/26/2007 9:26:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2007 9:28:19 AM EST by YoungGun]
I understand that no one else can have possession of your registered SBR/Class 3/Silencer...

I understand (correct me if I am wrong) that it is a no no for the wife (or anyone else) to have access to the safe if I store SBR/Class 3 toys in there. How about locking these toys in a storage case and store them in the safe (The wife has access to the safe but does NOT have access to the storage case).

Need your input into the legality of storage SBR/Class 3 toys.

Yg
Link Posted: 9/26/2007 6:28:09 PM EST
It's totally fine to have them in a seperate locked case inside your safe. Just as long as you are the only one who has access to the case.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 5:39:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2007 5:41:51 AM EST by LoneWolfUSMC]

Originally Posted By tony_k:
I would respectfully disagree with you. Only the registered owner may have access to an NFA item. You are correct that you do not have to possess it all the time, and that if it is in your residence it is in your possession. But if anyone else has access to your home (and thus your NFA items), you have given access to an unregistered person, and that is against federal law.


Could anyone post US Code or Case Law to confirm this? I have seen it tossed around many times that my NFA toys MUST be in a container that my wife cannot access, but I have not actually seen any Law that states this.

One of the big reasons I ask is because the State of Indiana recognizes that any property that I own also belongs to my wife. Most states recognize a married couple as ONE legal entity. I don't see how this is any different that a Corporation or a Trust. In all cases there are legal documents stating who belongs to the partnership.

There is also Case Law that states pretty specifically what "possession" is. I.E. If I raid a crack house and there is 20 pounds of cocaine in the back bedroom in an unsecured container, I cannot charge the visitors in the front room with "possession". It has been tried and it has failed in court.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 5:54:59 AM EST
No one has to know that your wife has the combination to your safe memorized.


Mark.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 6:49:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2007 6:54:15 AM EST by tony_k]
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 6:56:33 AM EST
A question for you NFA guys. I don't own any NFA items but, I would like to ask. Can you have 2 people register 1 NFA item. I have not seen this asked before. Maybe have each person fill out a form 1 or list both peoples names along with pictures and print cards(if needed) to be included. In the case above, if the husband and wife can both register the item, then they would not have to worry about separate storage and all of that. Thanks for taking the time to answer.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 7:06:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2007 7:06:44 AM EST by tony_k]
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 7:31:16 AM EST
Thanks Tony_k, I figured you would have an answer for me.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 7:43:22 AM EST
I think Tony must actually, secretly be the head of the NFA branch or maybe even the ATF. Or maybe he just spends hours on end researching and learning this stuff.

There is a member here who I know personally. He apparently made an enemy. This enemy tipped the ATF off that he was co-mingling NFA weapons in their safe. ATF knocked on his front door. His dogs lived and he still has NFA toys but the point is that no one but the person who the toy is registered to can have access to it (unless your there of course). Access would include someone having the key or combo to the safe. Your house counts as being stored correctly as long as you live alone and no one else can enter your house without kicking in the door. Nice thing about a trust or Corp is my parents can have access to my stuff if the need arises.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 8:18:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2007 8:22:35 AM EST by BuffDragon]
ok, so let me present this:

myself, my family, and my new suppressor go to the ranch for the weekend.
there's no safe at the ranch.
what to do?

do I lock it in my truck, set the alarm, and sleep with the keys around my penis (which means its safe from the wife )?
or do I sleep with my nice, loving suppressor under my pillow?


I understand there's a high factor of "who's ever gonna know?"
but I'm curious, to the letter of the law.


this reasoning alone would be a big selling point for trust vs personal route.
Link Posted: 9/28/2007 7:34:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/28/2007 7:42:18 PM EST by BTripp]
As far as I know the ATF does not have exclusive rights to search your premises just because you have NFA items.

I believe they still have to have some kind of basis before they go hassling citizens, could be mistaken, but as far as I was told, they could not just show up, it might be a good idea to help them or comply, but you can make them go get a warrant (I believe, I BELIEVE, I am capable of error, and I'd wait for a second opinion.)

EDIT:

Now with Probable Cause, and given the tedious legal nature of NFA items if they were to get the impression that your NFA items were being handled and used by people not approved or allowed to handle them, that might be different. But again, without them having a picture, that's a pretty hard thing to prove, all they can do is probably question you, anyway.

Which brings up the question to me and I've pondered this before, but never voiced it, technically if you're the only person legally eligible to possess that firearm, is letting someone do mag dumps or fire an AOW or SBS at the range violation of Federal Law?

If your present, but someone other than yourself is handling it and they wanted to bust you, could they?

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 9/29/2007 1:00:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By tony_k:

As far as "what happens when I die," your NFA toys become part of your estate, and legally may be possessed by the executor of the estate pending BATFE transfer to the heirs or sale to a third party. If the executor is your wife, she can keep possession of them pending the transfer. But she should not have access while you're still breathing.


That's not what I meant... if I'm supposed to have it locked away as in she doesn't know the combination.... how's she supposed to get it out if I die unexpectedly?
Link Posted: 9/29/2007 3:02:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2007 3:07:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2007 3:08:41 AM EST by tony_k]
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 2:49:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2007 2:50:20 AM EST by technogrunt]
How do gun Indoor Gun Ranges rent Machine guns?? If they are not supposed to be handed over to someone who is not the owner... I see 18 y.olds renting MG's all the time..
Link Posted: 10/3/2007 7:57:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 8:29:29 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By AJE:
height=8
Originally Posted By tony_k:

As far as "what happens when I die," your NFA toys become part of your estate, and legally may be possessed by the executor of the estate pending BATFE transfer to the heirs or sale to a third party. If the executor is your wife, she can keep possession of them pending the transfer. But she should not have access while you're still breathing.


That's not what I meant... if I'm supposed to have it locked away as in she doesn't know the combination.... how's she supposed to get it out if I die unexpectedly?


How about a letter as part of your estate with the combination to the safe and an explanation to what she will find along with all the original paperwork for the NFA items. Thats should do the trick.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 10:22:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 1:19:05 PM EST by AJE]

Originally Posted By nmorse:

Originally Posted By AJE:

Originally Posted By tony_k:

As far as "what happens when I die," your NFA toys become part of your estate, and legally may be possessed by the executor of the estate pending BATFE transfer to the heirs or sale to a third party. If the executor is your wife, she can keep possession of them pending the transfer. But she should not have access while you're still breathing.


That's not what I meant... if I'm supposed to have it locked away as in she doesn't know the combination.... how's she supposed to get it out if I die unexpectedly?


How about a letter as part of your estate with the combination to the safe and an explanation to what she will find along with all the original paperwork for the NFA items. Thats should do the trick.


Or... I can just keep doing what I'm doing. If I could afford a second safe (or a first one, for that matter), I'd do it. If the BATFE wants to buy me one, they should feel more than welcome. As for my current storage, she already knows how to get into it. I can't exactly get a Men In Black issued neuralyzer and erase it from her memory, so she is always going to know how to get into it.

Are they going to come to my house and quiz her to see if she could unlock it?
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 12:40:29 PM EST
they are very Strict on the ''only the owner has access'' thing.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 1:18:20 PM EST
Okay, I guess I'll find a different place to hide the key. She doesn't have anything locked in there anyway.
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