I found a K31 Swiss that has me intrigued.  It has a beech stock, better than 95% blue and overall exceptional condition.  There is a number plate attached to the stock that also identifies it as a Polizei rifle.  I suspect that is why it is in such great shape.  I have no way to measure the muzzle, but the bore looks good with no evident issues.  The problem is that they are asking $1000 for it.  The same place has a non-Police marked K31 for $350, so I know their prices are out of shape.

What is a fair price for a K31 with police history in exceptional shape?

Thank you!

Personally I wouldn't pay any more than $350 for it since you can get regular K31s from AIM for $270.

This.

Thanks, I appreciate the insight.  Cabela's can always be counted on to have outrageous prices on used guns!

You hit it head on with with the word "regular".

What AIM is offering are good to very good condition rifles with no mention of #'s matching and various degrees of aware.. That condition is representative of the dollar figure they are asking, but on the other hand there are K31's worth a whole lot more than $350 and in a hell of a lot better condition.

Just ordered two Walnut stocked K31's and a 91/30 (how can you pass up on $79.95?)   AIM is the Debibil.  

There is no legitimate reason for that to be $1000. Seems like a gun store looking to scam a gullible idiot out of their money. It's a red flag to deny them your business and let them die off. You can get just as nice K31s for under $300 these days.

Lets put this into perspective, the police marked K31 they are selling is definitely not worth a $,1000. Having that said there are plenty K31's out there that can reach and exceed $1,000. If you know your Swiss rifles then this statement makes sense.

To say this guy can buy just as nice of a K31 for under $300 means just that, nice but IMO not a really nice example. What you get in today's market for $300 will be a NRA good to very good condition rifle that may or may not be #'s matching, will have significant bluing wear and you can bet the stock will show some really good signs of use and if the butt plate does not fit the stock to a "T" then you can watch the value decline further.

We have no idea how much the OP wants to spend, you get what you pay for like with all firearms.

Ordered from AIM on the 27th, (X2 Walnut stocked K31's, did not opt for $10 hand select) delivered on the 30th. Everything matches, metal is around 90%, stocks have wear and tear, and are a lot nicer than my beech stocked K31 I bought a few years back from Samco.
Very happy. I was going to order one more, and a K11, but they are now all out, except for Beech stocked K31's (as of 30June)  Remnants of red tag/sticker is the thing you see wrapped around stock - top rifle...between barrel bands towards front of rifle. Supposedly a tag that is applied during competitions or matches.

my swiss 1911 7.5 K11 Carbine

Th stickers you have on your rifle were placed there by the original owner so when they were placed on community gun racks at a range that they would be able to pick their rifle out of the bunches.

Too bad most (about 75%) of the sticker is gone, or I would leave it on. I'm still thinking of leaving the remnant in place.

A grand for any almost any non-sniper K31 is insane, and I have never seen one for that much.  Paying over $400 for a decent K31 in this market is pretty nuts as well (unless it is in "unissued" condition or and "oddity").  Nice K31s are still all over the place.  A small minority of people are artificially increasing the prices of these guns for no reason.

The latest shipment of Swiss rifles from AIM are, by all accounts pretty nice.

I recieved a P series K31 from AIM with 95% bluing, matching numbers, and an awesome walnut stock with a couple superficial handling marks.  The buttplate fits perfectly.  

The only thing "wrong" with it is a light dusting of old, blued over pitting on the trigger guard (which I consider a good thing, because now I am more inclined to shoot it ).  I will probably replace the guard anyway as it is not a numbered part. Upon a detail strip, I found the rest of the rifle to be pristine.

It cost $260.

One variation that might make it up there is a Swiss Guards model - they have Vatican markings on them, and are quite rare.

THAT would be worth it.

First problem: You're treating my statements as absolutes, when there is wiggle room in everything I said/

Second problem:  You're discussing a "niche" market, of which a proportionally very small percentage of people belong to, and the vast majority have zero interest in.   Most of us are happy with a matching gun in nice cosmetic and mechanical condition.

I received my P series K31 2 days ago from AIM (that would make the year 2010).

I bought an AWESOME 1911 with matching numbers, almost 100% blue and an excellent stock for $230 at a gun show 6 months ago as well (and there were many other nice Swiss guns there to choose from, prices topped out at ~550 from the more unscrupulous dealers).

There a pics on the web of what people are currently getting from AIM.  Haven't heard of "non-matching" guns, rust, or totally wasted stocks.  AIM doesn't waste time on total junk.  They are very clear on this in the industry forum.  There are pics posted in this thread (and other forums) of AIM's rifles.  They are nice rifles by any measure from people that collect and shoot surplus rifles.

Other forum you are posting on with pics  Here you posted numerous examples of rifles with "match" sights, private series guns...etc.  "Oddities" if you will.  Most people these days prefer rifles in military, standard issue configuration.  The VAST majority people don't want to pay and extra $700 for a set of sights.  Therefore the rifles are only worth that to a small percentage of people.  They will continue to pay hard.... fine with me, that's their thing.

My examples for the "inflation" are from NEVER seeing anyone actually purchase a standard issue Swiss rifle for a grand.  No one even sells them for that locally.  I've browsed the web plenty since I got my C&R, and no dice, almost all the expensive guns can be found in similar condition for far less within 20 minutes of my house, or a quick glance at the EE or GB.

What are your examples for what constitutes a "collector" grade military K31 anyway?  A "collector" grade M1 (from my understanding) has all original parts, and is in NRA excellent or better condition (which is an easy find with Swiss guns).

"Nice" Swiss rifles are not uncommon at all, and they are not very difficult to find.  To 99.99% of people, $1000 is, and will remain crazy for the foreseeable future.

Shitting on people getting on good deal on nice guns is just... weird.

If you think someone is shitting on you then you need to read more carefully sir.

What AIM has is what it is, they don't guarantee you a thing when you order one. If a nice example slides out the door that is fine because they are not looking and grading any of them. Allan's armory was also being pointed out for great deals on K31's. The whole point of the thread was a very small group of non-collectors stating the K31's are falling price, which is completely untrue.

There are plenty of Collector grade (NRA Excellent/Excellent +) on Simpsons LTD that are service rifles and not "P" series or ones with extra $ sights.

If you wanna list the thread I was involved in on Surplus rifle then put it into perspective and not by trying to point fingers like I am some asshole.

What was said in that thread needs to be read in it's entirety and not just pulling out statements you feel tell the whole story. And if you feel you have the final word on this topic then take it to the Swiss Rifle Forums like I pointed out in the other forum and we can post a link to that thread on here for a true understanding of what a Swiss rifle collector is will to spend on a gorgeous example. Truly a thread started there is going to be way more informative then one posted on here or Surplusrifle where a very, very small # of actual Swiss collectors frequent.

All I can say is read Gusian's statement (A current Swiss Solder) and you will see he actually touches each point I was making and is in line with my statements. So as I said in that thread if you are pointing fingers at me then you are pointing them at Gusian too which is IMO a bad mistake.

All I can say is when folks don't take the time to read an entire thread they only pull out of it what they want, this is horrible reading comprehension on your part as far as I am concerned.

Blah blah blah... That's why I posted the link... so people CAN read the thread (which IS pertinent to this discussion).  Jesus Christ.  No is "pointing fingers" at you or anybody else.  Knock off the verbal fencing before this thread gets locked too.

Guisan
"The Swiss rifles that show up on the US-market now are all previously private owned ones as the military arsenals are long empty. Another thing is that because of that it is no longer RUAG that is exporting them but various gundealers that do so instead.
The reason is simple, in Switzerland people had to either turn in their guns or to register them, turning them in with the police brings nothing and involves some paperwork, turning them in with a gunshop instead also brings paper work but upon that it brings some money !
What you get to see now is that there are more K31 variants around in the US like the S-diopter rifles and the P.xxxx series rifles that are mostly in very good condition.
Times of bulk lots of K31's are over, US-dealers only get smaller lots just the average quality is better.

As the source is slowly drying up I do not expect the prices to go down, it's mostly the opposite way.

Guisan. :D"

Doesn't say anything about $1000 standard issue guns.  Just like any other surplus gun, there is a finite supply.

OP... the AIM guns are fine, buy one, you'll be happy.  

This is gay, I'm out.

Funny again how you still don't get it. Go to SimpsonsLTD and you will find many military issue variants going for $1K plus, need I do the leg work for you and post links to dozens of them

The ones I posted links to were ones that caught my eye since there is after all 20+ pages of Swiss rifles. So if you do your research like you claim then their site will show you proof.

On top of that when you look at SimpsonsLTD you will see many like stated above that have seen military use and are not "P" series for around and over $1K, they were not privately owned on all examples and many on there sight are not import marked and are on consignment and not brought over in huge batches with lesser examples.

I am only pointing out facts and facts are facts. If I said things that hurt people's feelings because they don't wanna except the truth then so be it. I never called anyone names, I specifically told those who partook in the discussion that were obviously wrong that their reading comprehension sucked and stating untrue facts was BS. If those statments are what you are basing your knowledge off of in this discussion then feel free to float your own boat.

My points are proven facts and you cannot argue with hard facts, unless ignorance is bliss...

Classic Arms has some nice K31's with beech stocks for 280 if you haven't checked them out already. Never had a problem with anything from Classic Arms.

I agree that Classic Arms is a great business. I have worked with prior owner Ben and current owner Gus on many occasions. But the main problem with their descriptions is Gus is doing the grading these days and he really by his own words knows much of nothing about firearms and especially grading current surplus rifles he has on hand. These are his words coming out of his mouth, not mine for the record.

Having that said I am sure you will get a decent K31 for the price he has listed, but again it is a crap shoot that may lead to non-#'s matching, less than very good/+ bluing, wood condition with a butt plate that normally doesn't match up to the wood that good.

To put the only factual statements out there for you and others to see since you are bringing the other thread to the plate:

Posted by Gusian:
The Swiss rifles that show up on the US-market now are all previously private owned ones as the military arsenals are long empty. Another thing is that because of that it is no longer RUAG that is exporting them but various gundealers that do so instead.
The reason is simple, in Switzerland people had to either turn in their guns or to register them, turning them in with the police brings nothing and involves some paperwork, turning them in with a gunshop instead also brings paper work but upon that it brings some money !
What you get to see now is that there are more K31 variants around in the US like the S-diopter rifles and the P.xxxx series rifles that are mostly in very good condition.
Times of bulk lots of K31's are over, US-dealers only get smaller lots just the average quality is better.

As the source is slowly drying up I do not expect the prices to go down, it's mostly the opposite way.

Guisan.

Posted by 35 Whelen:

No gentlemen, they are NOT coming down in price. The only thing comng down is quality. A rifle that cost $150 3 or 4 years ago will run you twice that now. Likewise, a rifle that costs $150 today, and I'm speaking in general terms, (please don't tell me about the mint walnut K-31 your uncles brothers best friend got at a garage sale for $50) will likely have a beat up stock, maybe a little rust, etc. To most, that may be bad, but to me, as a shooter, that's good!
I believe this is because the overseas supply is drying up and the good (pretty) ones were sold off first, which from a business standpoint, makes sense. Case in point, about three years ago I stopped into Military Gun Supply in Ft. Worth and looked at almost all of the FORTY or so K-31's they had in stock. It was like Nirvana. I picked a super, super nice beech stocked '40 model and bought it for around $140. Those days are long gone.

edit..

NM, not worth it.  OP probably can use google.

Now if I could just find some Waffenfett or Automatenfett

Now that is true, but take in everything you see with a grain of salt unless you are going onto a collector forum for that specific gun. Google is not a means to an end....

Realize Simpsons can raise/lower their prices all they want because they are one of the few dealers who specialize in historical firearms and accessories and thus whatever they feel like charging actually sets the current market value. You have to remember a collector's item is only worth however much someone is willing to pay for it. The amount of people who'll pay over $400 for a K31 are a niche market that's dictated by these big name collectors.

I can agree with what you have said, but not everything SImpsonsLTD sells is theirs. Meaning many of their firearms are on consignment, so potential sellers are only going to go so low. Those collectors having their firearms on consignment want to see a specific dollar amount out of their rifle after SimpsonsLTD gets some of the final sale.

Most people don't realize this is how SmpsonsLTD operates most of their business.


"You have to remember a collector's item is only worth however much someone is willing to pay for it".
I can also agree with this... this goes with mostly all collector things though such as automobiles etc..

Just received from AIM, walnut hand picked K31. All the numbers I see are matching, barrel, receiver, bolt, buttplate, stock, handguard and magazine. I even got the soldier tag under the buttplate. I'm very pleased. I've been wanting one for some time.

Not to insult either side of this debate, but I WILL say that Guisan is a "known quantity" in the area of Swiss arms.

Anything he says, I consider a settled matter.

I will say that most surplus K31s I've seen in person are far from "perfect", either due to stock condition, finish condition, or some combination of both. Neither of mine have perfect stocks or finish, but their bores are both excellent. I can see examples with both in excellent to mint shape bringing more on the market. Now, I will say that $1000 for anything not a sniper is a stretch, but I also do not profess to be anywhere near an expert on the subject. There well might be rare variations that will command that sort of a premium from a serious collector.