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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/31/2009 3:02:51 PM EST
I'm thinking about taking my all original 53 IHC deer hunting next weekend and would need some soft point ammo for it. I was just going to buy some of the blue box Federal 150gr from my local wally world but wasn't sure that it would be safe.Any ideas?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:12:07 PM EST
You could just remove the gas plug. Fire it single shot for the short term. Just have to cycle the rifle by hand.

Get an adjustable gas plug for long term. Very simple fix.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:17:48 PM EST
Don't know about factory but my son used his Garand last year with some hand loads I loaded for him. 165 Nosler Partition Spitzer #16330 with 46.6gr VV540 ... we got good groups with this load. 5 rounds in a quarter size group at 100yds. His is a Fulton Armory build with a Kregier bbl.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:32:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
You could just remove the gas plug. Fire it single shot for the short term. Just have to cycle the rifle by hand.

Get an adjustable gas plug for long term. Very simple fix.


So there's no damage to the receiver just the gas system? What's worse case scenario if I leave the gas system as it is?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:41:06 PM EST
The damage will happen to the operating rod. Hot loads will bend it.

I know of no commercial hunting loads downloaded for the Garand. 150gr hunting loads are loaded to ~2990fps while M2 Ball is loaded to ~2740fps. Hornady does produce a target round for the Garand but I don't think it's loaded with a bullet suitable for hunting. Could be wrong as I've never checked it out, I reload all my Garand ammo.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:54:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
The damage will happen to the operating rod. Hot loads will bend it.

I know of no commercial hunting loads downloaded for the Garand. 150gr hunting loads are loaded to ~2990fps while M2 Ball is loaded to ~2740fps. Hornady does produce a target round for the Garand but I don't think it's loaded with a bullet suitable for hunting. Could be wrong as I've never checked it out, I reload all my Garand ammo.


Honestly I'll probably only put a few rounds through it, 2 or 3 at the range to verify zero and hopefully 1 in a deer come Saturday morning
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:16:16 PM EST
The loads don't have to be "hot" to bend the op rod. Powders have different pressure curves and modern ammo usually has too much pressure at the Garand's gas port. The usual powder for the Garand are IMR4895 and IMR4064. Their burn rate/pressure curve works perfectly with the Garand gas system and has for many decades.

Spent $30 for an adjustable Schuster gas plug and you can shoot whatever ammo you want, without wrecking your $70 - $100 op rod.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 5:44:41 PM EST
Load you own, or stay home.

Don't fuck up a perfectly good piece of history.

Op rods ain't getting any cheaper.

load up a 150gr. Nosler ballistic tip with 49gr of IMR 4895




The reloading article in the M1 reprint from the NRA gives some load information for BL-C2.

"Reloads for the M1 Rifle

I want to reload ammunition for my M1 Rifle. Other shooters tell me to be careful in my selection of components for the incorrect ones can damage the rifle. What should I choose? What should I avoid? Why?

Answer: The warnings you have been given are good ones. Though it is a rugged, piece of equipment, the M1 Rifle has an “Achilles heel”; its long, slender operating rod. Operating rods can be bent to the point of uselessness if continually subjected to propellent gas pressures that are too high. Such too high pressures are usually the result of either too-heavy bullets or too-slow burning powder, or both. In military service, over the several decades that the M1 was either our primary or an important secondary arm, this potential fragility of the operating rod was not a problem. Ammunition for the rifle was developed and loaded that did not cause overly high pressure to be exerted against the operating rod, and so did not damage it. Handloaders, however, can choose combinations of components that will cause damage. For best results, use powders faster than IMR 4320, and bullets of 180 grains weight, or lighter. Suggested loading data for .30-’06 ammunition in M1 Rifles follows:

147/150-gr. bullets – either FMJ or HPBT
IMR 3031 48.0 grs.
IMR 4895 49.0 grs.
IMR 4064 50.0 grs.
Win 748 Ball 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2460 49.0 grs.
Acc AA2520 51.0 grs.
Acc 2495BR 50.5 grs.
Hod H-4895 49.0 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 49.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 48.0 grs.

165/168-gr. bullets – either SP, HP or FMJ
IMR 4895 47.0 grs.
IMR 4064 48.0 grs.
Acc AA2520 47.5 grs.
Acc 2495BR 47.0 grs.
Hod H-4895 47.5 grs.
Hod BL-C2 49.0 grs.
Hod H-335 47.0 grs.
Herc Re-12 44.5 grs.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:45:02 PM EST
The problem isn't that modern ammo is necessarily loaded with powders that is too slow for the M1. The problem is there is no way to know. Even if you disassembled some factory ammo and could analytically determine the burn rate of the powder, the manufacturer isn't necessarily going to use the same powder in their next lot of ammo.

And as folks have said, op rods aren't getting any cheaper.

Load 46.0 grains of IMR 4064 behind any of the 165 grain hunting bullets of your choice. I like the Hornady SSTs.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 3:04:50 AM EST
Its not just the Op Rod but the reciver that can be damaged from the bolt hitting it at excellerated rate from commercial ammmo. Meatl fatigue is accumalative and doesnt happen overnight. You could shoot thousands of rds and have no problems or you could have a failure on the very first shot. These are old surplus rifles and who knows how much the metal has already been stressed.
Buy a adjustable gas cylinder then you dont have to worry
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:31:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By M1G:
Its not just the Op Rod but the reciver that can be damaged from the bolt hitting it at excellerated rate from commercial ammmo. Meatl fatigue is accumalative and doesnt happen overnight. You could shoot thousands of rds and have no problems or you could have a failure on the very first shot. These are old surplus rifles and who knows how much the metal has already been stressed.
Buy a adjustable gas cylinder then you dont have to worry


Here's an extreme example of too much pressure. It was caused by firing one grenade blank (instead of ceremonial blank) with a BFA installed. One thing the damage illustrates is the bolt and firing pin hit the receiver heel, more pressure the harder the hit. I'm still amazed this Garand held together. I didn't do it but I know who did and he won't do it again. Yeah, the hit was so violent it knocked the elevation knob clean off.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:48:05 AM EST
That's nuts!

I've decided to use my Grandfathers Winchester model 70 that he bought in the 50s instead of the Garand until I buy the adjustable gas plug.

Thanks for the help guys!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:18:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By LtBlue425:
I'm still amazed this Garand held together. I didn't do it but I know who did and he won't do it again.


The Garand action itself is incredibly strong. Hatcher tried to blow one up with cartridges filled to the top with high speed proof testing powder and couldn't do it.
(though he broke a lot of parts in the process)
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:22:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 1:26:49 PM EST by HellifIknow]
People wreck their M-1's using store bought ammo quite frequently. Its mostly that they just don't know better.
I'll echo what the others have said. The weak link in the garand system is the Op rod. Once its bent you are fucked.
Modern ammo produces a longer pressure curve. This in turn causes continued push back on the op rod before the pressure peaks and begins to drop.
Think of pushing an aluminum can against a wall. Push it against the wall and continue pushing. it collapses. Op-rod same thing.

The adjustable gas plug is the easiest remedy.
You can remove the gas plug and fire the rifle single shot. Just cycle the action by hand after each shot.
Its a dorky way to do it but it works for a shot or two. In a hunting situation its not a big deal.
Just remember to keep the gas ring from coming un screwed.

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 6:30:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/3/2009 6:34:20 AM EST by PolyTechKID]
Hornady makes a 168gr A-max load specifically for the garand.

PTK

eta: Sinclair
Another joint
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 8:55:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By PolyTechKID:
Hornady makes a 168gr A-max load specifically for the garand.

PTK

eta: Sinclair
Another joint


And of course the A-max is not a hunting bullet. It's a thin skinned target bullet.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 1:37:38 PM EST
i hunt with the 168gr. a-max in my .308's. It is a good bullet for deer in my opinion. I would use the Hornady load if I wanted to hunt with the garand.
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