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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Springfield Armory junk? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/10/2011 7:51:22 PM EDT
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I have a SA Scout ,and all I hear on other forums is that SA is unreliable junk. Is there anybody here that has experience with this platform for many years can explain to me why my $1,600 factory built scout is a piece of shit. If it is, can you tell me how to bring it up to a reliable spec,or should I sell it and get something better.
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It's the best buy for the price. There are some brands that are better (slightly or quite a bit, depending on who you talk to). They have probably the best customer service of anyone out there and will fix any problems that come up.
As was just recommended, have a spare extractor and extra extractor detent spring handy. This is a weakness of the design, not just SAInc. With USGI M14 rifles, I have had three GI extractors fail on me in 30 years. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example.
As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. |
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Don't believe everything you hear. There are so many fans of other types and manufacturerers, you cannot please everyone. Springfield has had issues,but a no-questions asked lifetime warrantyy? I would (and did) buy one in a minute. Yeah kinda like Taurus Handguns right . . . . . . J/K . . . . well only partially. Springfield M1A's of the past are superior to those currently in production. That said they are still good guns but sometimes you draw the short straw and have to go through the trouble of sending it back and dealing with their monkeys with hammers. Reciently we had a member here ship back his correct M1 for a repark and somone at springfield called him to tell him his rear sight was broken and needed to be replaced. (IE they broke his GI sight and wanted to install a commercial pos in its place) He declined and got his rifle back from them with his busted sight and confirmed that is was busted due to their stupidity. Not sure if he got them to straiten it out or not honestly . . . . . For the money there are better options. Such as a Polytech and spend the rest on a few US parts and a nice stock or chassis so its the way you want it to be from the start . . . . all at the same price point or within a couple hundred depending on how extravagant you want to go. Since you already have one I would bed it, shoot it, and enjoy it. If its working your gtg. When it dies call the monkeys up and let them deal with it but as a recomendation take some pictures of what it looked like when it left as well as a detailed list of any and all modifications made to it before you shipped it back. Then once it arrives in your hands again check it over and make sure they didnt put the screws to you. |
| SA DOESNT HAVE MONKEYS WORKING FOR THEM CENTURY DOES! You can buy polytech .But when it comes to buying an m1a IT WILL BE MADE IN THE USA!!! And polytech needs work to be able to do what a SPRINGER can do!!Yes SA has had some problems GI parts are scarce.The lifetime warranty will fix any problem you have.Its a lifetime warranty not 1 year.You can spend your money with SA and not have to worry.I have 2 m1as one wood one synthetic a1911a1 and xd40 never had a problem with any of them!And if I did it be fixed free of charge!!!!!!! Its your choice but I think you cant go wrong with SA. And if you do buy SA there is aloaded coupon in there call them and ask for the 15 rd mag code. I bought 4 mags they work great and look good too! Some people just bash SA because they hear of a problem somebody had and have to repeat it like you will have problems too.You cant go wrong with SA.. |
| About everyone short of the match rifles are just put together without much concern for good solid fit. Some shoot decent others can be all over. That is my biggest complaint. Mine is older so it had GI parts. No complaints there. Good people to deal with and if there is serious issues they tend to make them right. Not junk, but tend to need tweaking to get the most out of one. |
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Their problem is QUALITY CONTROL. They have none. They produce both 100% perfect in every possible way rifles and pieces of junk that look like they built in a tent in Pakistan on the same day.
Sorry but that is exactly the way it is. If you rifle shoots and functions OK now don't worry about it. You got a good one. |
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Quoted: Some people just bash SA because they hear of a problem somebody had and have to repeat it like you will have problems too.You cant go wrong with SA.. That could be true. But also many of us have had nightmare problems. We had them with our own rifles and repaired the problems of others because their owners did not want to send them back OR they sent them back more than once and the problems were not fixed.
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I don't know why people complain about a rifle that will outlast them. Will it last 3-4 generations? Maybe not but it won't matter as you'll be dead. LOL your absolutly right . . . The broken out of the box springfields will outlast us all. And to the poster who is all about the US made springfield M1a's . . . . you may want to ask springfield if their M1a's are 100% US next time you call them. You may be surprised. |
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I don't know why people complain about a rifle that will outlast them. Will it last 3-4 generations? Maybe not but it won't matter as you'll be dead. LOL your absolutly right . . . The broken out of the box springfields will outlast us all. And to the poster who is all about the US made springfield M1a's . . . . you may want to ask springfield if their M1a's are 100% US next time you call them. You may be surprised. Quality control probably dropped during the '08-'09 gun rush. I'm sure ALL manufactures slipped a bit to meet demand during the '08-09 gun rush. Mine works like a charm...out of the box. |
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When people lavish praise on lifetime warranties it speaks of something.
Once upon a time, Armalite had a host of problems with the AR10 series of rifle. Despite these issues, often described in agonizing detail on the Internet, the supporters always fell back on describing how good the customer service was. After a few years, Armalite got their stuff together, fixed their issues and started turning out quality rifles. Now all I hear is how good the rifles are and not a peep about the customer service, which I'm sure has not changed. Just something to think about... |
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When people lavish praise on lifetime warranties it speaks of something. Once upon a time, Armalite had a host of problems with the AR10 series of rifle. Despite these issues, often described in agonizing detail on the Internet, the supporters always fell back on describing how good the customer service was. After a few years, Armalite got their stuff together, fixed their issues and started turning out quality rifles. Now all I hear is how good the rifles are and not a peep about the customer service, which I'm sure has not changed. Just something to think about... And where do you go for customer service for Federal Ordnance, Armscorp, and any chinese M14 clone? |
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And where do you go for customer service for Federal Ordnance, Armscorp, and any chinese M14 clone? If I were to extend your point, it is an argument to not purchase anything for which customer service still does not exist, which includes a huge number of firearms in circulation, some of which belong to manufacturers who are still in business. (I'm sure there are plenty of Colt products Colt no longer services) That's an issue separate of my point. After all, I'm sure we all own something in that category and the lack of a customer service center did not enter our minds when we made the purchase. Anyone here own a USGI Garand not purchased through the CMP? Anyone here own a legal MG? If having someone to turn to when your purchase doesn't function is more important than the quality of the purchase itself, you are free to make that decision. However, an excellent customer service group willing to fix any piece of crap that leaves the factory, no matter how many times it takes to get it right, should not be confused with a quality product, which seems to be the link many try to make when this subject comes up. |
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I was out shooting my m1a today a new one 300 rds not a problem ! I guess some bad rifles make it out.Do you think every car or truck chevy makes. is perfect.No a bad one slips thru sometimes.But to say SA has trained monkeys working for them is a little far fetched.Yes SA has some parts made outside the states but final finish and machine work is done here! Just like ford -dodge and chevy have foreign parts.SA does all the final phases of manufacturing here so it is MADE IN THE USA!!My oldest m1a was made in 95 has alot of GI parts.Never had a prblem with it!I also have a 1911a1 mil spec made in 2000.The receiver is from Brazil final machine work was done in the USA.I have never had a problem with SA.I have a complete TRW parts kit that I bought in 95 for $200 because of people saying SA was bad! I haven't used a single part from that kit!! That TRW kit is worth $1500 or more now.I guess I should thank those who were saying I heard that monkeys were working at SA
Yes there are forged rec LRB I'm onthe waiting list 4 months.But living behind enemy lines LRB might not be legal in nj if m14 is on it.Fulton armory is coming out with a m 25 marked rec.When the ATF approves it .It is good to have a lifetime warranty if you need it today or 10 yrs from now you are covered..I might get a SA rec and build it.I shoot every chance I get.None of my shootin buddies have had a problem with there m1a's.I know how my SA products have performed never had a problem!!!I I guess the monkeywith the most grey matter builds my rifles. I should get him some more bannas. |
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Having had one Springfield M1A that had its problems, what I will say is that Springfield's problem is one of Quality Control. My personal M1A's problems were cases that would stick in the chamber. An issue that was never resolved. Unfortunately I have read of many other M1As with the same problem. I have also read many reports of very visable reaming marks in the chamber, which may or may not be the cause of the sticking problem.
Off and on, I have read of issues with the bolt roller coming off. Which is generally related to a falure to relieve the rail where the bolt roller comes down. A simple fix, but a problem that should not have happened and should have been seen with a visual inspection. Most recently there are reports of problems with a miss machined safety bridges. Which is the part that cams the firing pin back so that chances of a Slam Fire are reduced. A major safety issue. Since these issues seem to appear sporadically, I will repeat myself and say that the biggest problem is Quality Control. I will also say that these issues should not be happening on a rifle that costs as much as the M1A does. Due the problems that I had, I no longer have that Springfield M1A, and now have 3 Polytechs. |
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And polytech needs work to be able to do what a SPRINGER can do!! Really? And I repeat what LarryG stated; Really? My Poly' ran well right out the carton. And has been doing well since. Been inspected by a qualified gunsmith, it's good to go. Goes BANG every time, and the bullets hit their target. Any different than a Springer? The Springer is a good rifle. But why bash the Poly'? Today, I'd buy either if I could get my hands on one at a decent price. |
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Springfield's custome service is top notch. I had a Loaded 1911 that I bout NIB that shot low and to the left in about a 10" grop at 25 yards. I sent it back to them and they rewordedd the guna nd it is now capable of 1.5" groups at 25 yards. The put in a new barrel, barrel bushing, refit the slide to frame, new sights, and did a trigger job. They did this all for free and I had it back within three weeks. I bought my dad a Springfield M1A Standard in 2006 for Christmas and it is his favoriate rifle. It has never malfunctioned and the fit and finish are fantastic. I wound not ever worry about poor service from Springfield. |
| I have an M1A that was purchased in 1985 and it is all still origional parts. The serial number is under 40K. I have not had a single issue with the rifle. I have many rounds down range and would not trade that rifle for anything. There is no finer, battle tested, 308 Semi-Auto out there. |
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I have an M1A that was purchased in 1985 and it is all still origional parts. The serial number is under 40K. I have not had a single issue with the rifle. I have many rounds down range and would not trade that rifle for anything. There is no finer, battle tested, 308 Semi-Auto out there. Sorry, no commercial copy of the M14 is battle tested just like commercial copies of the FAL are not as well. The design, maybe so, but not necessarily the copies due to the various companies making them. They may not execute the design in the same manner as the original. Just like 1911s, the only ones that are battle tested are the ones actually made for the military, unlike all the commercial copies. I have 3 commercial 1911s. They are based on a battle tested design, but they themselves are not. They may be a perfectly executed copy, but if they aren't military surplus, they are not battle tested. They are all BASED on a battle tested design, but that's not saying that the copies are battle tested. Not saying M1As are bad, but they are not battle tested. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. Wow whos doing your math. Every M1a/M14 out there has a short barrel. Its just that most of us tend to keep the rest of the length attached. So your theory is a bullet exiting the barrel early causes greater pressure than a bullet exiting the barrel a few more inches down the pipe . . . .will lead to greater pressure spikes? Really . . . . . . Think about what your saying for a second. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. Wow whos doing your math. Every M1a/M14 out there has a short barrel. Its just that most of us tend to keep the rest of the length attached. So your theory is a bullet exiting the barrel early causes greater pressure than a bullet exiting the barrel a few more inches down the pipe . . . .will lead to greater pressure spikes? Really . . . . . . Think about what your saying for a second. I see where you are both going, and it can go either way. It is possible to both shorten a barrel AND get the action to cycle harder through gas port size and the expanded volume in some of the gas plugs out there. All I know is that I've seen several examples recently of broken bolt rollers on this board alone. IIRC, competent smiths who looked at the issue wanted to blame an insufficient relief cut on the receiver. (When the bolt closes, the roller should not tap the receiver or the roller eventually breaks off) Given SAI's proclivity for occasionally mismachining and failing to properly gauge batches of receivers, despite having to make them for 40 years now, that's where my money would go. |
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I have an M1A that was purchased in 1985 and it is all still origional parts. The serial number is under 40K. I have not had a single issue with the rifle. I have many rounds down range and would not trade that rifle for anything. There is no finer, battle tested, 308 Semi-Auto out there. Sorry, no commercial copy of the M14 is battle tested just like commercial copies of the FAL are not as well. The design, maybe so, but not necessarily the copies due to the various companies making them. They may not execute the design in the same manner as the original. Just like 1911s, the only ones that are battle tested are the ones actually made for the military, unlike all the commercial copies. I have 3 commercial 1911s. They are based on a battle tested design, but they themselves are not. They may be a perfectly executed copy, but if they aren't military surplus, they are not battle tested. They are all BASED on a battle tested design, but that's not saying that the copies are battle tested. Not saying M1As are bad, but they are not battle tested. I see it as splitting hairs. I understand what your saying but this thread referenced the quality of SA not the clones and the early model M1A's were built by SA to military spec minus the selector. I don't know how SA has deviated from that origional spec now. The M14 I was issued in the Navy was not select fire either so the weapon I currently own is identical to the Navy version I was issued. I have more than 20 years of this gun with unknown round count and I still shoots competently and consistently. I've never had an extractor issue either. |
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I see where you are both going, and it can go either way. It is possible to both shorten a barrel AND get the action to cycle harder through gas port size and the expanded volume in some of the gas plugs out there. All I know is that I've seen several examples recently of broken bolt rollers on this board alone. IIRC, competent smiths who looked at the issue wanted to blame an insufficient relief cut on the receiver. (When the bolt closes, the roller should not tap the receiver or the roller eventually breaks off) Given SAI's proclivity for occasionally mismachining and failing to properly gauge batches of receivers, despite having to make them for 40 years now, that's where my money would go. Not really either way. His example of pressure spikes have nothing to do with the length. It has everything to do with the load and bullet used. I understand your example of the gas port being opened up to accomidate a shorter barrel due to reduced pressure to cycle the action, that kind of substantial change in mechanical recoil can cause damage and you are absoloutely correct. However it still has nothing to do with "pressure spikes" due to barrel length. This conclusion is abserd at best. Under gas and you get short stroke. Over gas and you can potentially damage the action due to the added force. You already summed up the bolt roller issue. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. My Springfield threw its bolt roller after about 200 rounds. Its a full size gun and I was running Mil surplus ammo through it. I have a "GI" 1911 from them also and its a turd. Springfield's CS will take care of you but Id rather have a company that I dont have to use their CS |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. Wow whos doing your math. Every M1a/M14 out there has a short barrel. Its just that most of us tend to keep the rest of the length attached. So your theory is a bullet exiting the barrel early causes greater pressure than a bullet exiting the barrel a few more inches down the pipe . . . .will lead to greater pressure spikes? Really . . . . . . Think about what your saying for a second. With a shorter barrel you've got to open the gas hole significantly larger to get the same amount of gas through the hole, thus the bolt will be traveling significantly faster, especially so with backpressure from a suppressor being attached. A great reason to have all that extra barrel is so you can keep your bolt moving at a manageable speed, through a smaller hole, instead of violently. |
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The reputation for "junk" comes from the well documented examples, on this board and several others, of "how the hell did it leave the factory that way?" rifles. Yes, SAI does take care of it, but let's just say I've learned an incredible amount of stuff on the M1A reading discussion threads on their mistakes. Bolt rollers breaking off has been the recent trend, for example. As said above, they are the best rifle for the money, but my opinion is that I would never buy another sight unseen. I will add that when they work, they work well. Wasn't this because someone was shooting full power loads through a suppressed and SOCOM M1A?. I'm pretty sure they're getting a significantly faster bolt unlock speed based on a higher pressure spike. Shorter barrel = higher pressure spike = faster than design parameter bolt speed. At least that's the way I see it. The self regulating piston is probably going to make me wrong. Wow whos doing your math. Every M1a/M14 out there has a short barrel. Its just that most of us tend to keep the rest of the length attached. So your theory is a bullet exiting the barrel early causes greater pressure than a bullet exiting the barrel a few more inches down the pipe . . . .will lead to greater pressure spikes? Really . . . . . . Think about what your saying for a second. With a shorter barrel you've got to open the gas hole significantly larger to get the same amount of gas through the hole, thus the bolt will be traveling significantly faster, especially so with backpressure from a suppressor being attached. A great reason to have all that extra barrel is so you can keep your bolt moving at a manageable speed, through a smaller hole, instead of violently. Really . . . . so the same amount of gas is going to make it faster huh . . . . . . If one is equal to another then thay are just that . . . . equal . . . . One doesnt all of a sudden become violently unmanagable due to their equality. Gas port sizing isnt a shot in the dark. Its fundimetally sound math. To acheive the equal amout of gas transfer through a shorter barrel you enlarge the gas port, however you have to time the process of bullet flight and available pressures to work with. Distance travled, distance left to travel before bullet exit etc. . . . There is acually math involved. Its not done buy guys guessing which drill bit to grab on the next attempt. Broken rollers were due to a problem with the (read) receiver being out of spec. It has nothing to do with the system in use or your theory of increadable pressure spikes etc. Since suppressors have nothing to do with this debate Im not even going to touch upon them. I would be typing for hours to expain the gas and pressure dispacement on how a suppressor actually works. |
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Really . . . . so the same amount of gas is going to make it faster huh . . . . . . If one is equal to another then thay are just that . . . . equal . . . . One doesnt all of a sudden become violently unmanagable due to their equality. Gas port sizing isnt a shot in the dark. Its fundimetally sound math. To acheive the equal amout of gas transfer through a shorter barrel you enlarge the gas port, however you have to time the process of bullet flight and available pressures to work with. Distance travled, distance left to travel before bullet exit etc. . . . There is acually math involved. Its not done buy guys guessing which drill bit to grab on the next attempt. Broken rollers were due to a problem with the (read) receiver being out of spec. It has nothing to do with the system in use or your theory of increadable pressure spikes etc. Since suppressors have nothing to do with this debate Im not even going to touch upon them. I would be typing for hours to expain the gas and pressure dispacement on how a suppressor actually works. I'd love to hear your explanation of how this theory works in the AR15 world. I've noticed a HUGE difference between bolt speed etc between suppressed 10 inch carbines, 16 inch M4geries, Mid length and 20 inch rifles. I was simply attributing the same theory to the M14 system. Lighten up Francis. You're going to have a coronary. It's not a debate, you think it's a debate, and I couldn't give two squirts of monkey piss what you think!  I posited a theory, you went the nasty route. I couldn't care less that you don't think my (read) THEORY might be wrong, it was, after all, just a thought about a reason for roller snapping. Oh, and just so you know, there was a person on this website that had the exact scenario happen to them I described, shooting full power ammunition through a SOCOM with a suppressor, which the company specifically cited as the reason he had a roller snap off.
Anyway, just for you I looked at my M14 and my brother's SOCOM next to each other, and you're probably right, I noticed the gas system is in exactly the same spot as it is on the full length rifle. My mistake, I assumed they abbreviated the gas system also. Can you forgive me? Pweese? and buy a fucking membership. |
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Anyone know why they don't place the bayonet lugs on them anymore? Just always thought it looked better with one on the rifle. I would imagine that SA is trying to remain compliant with AWBs that were enacted by various states, rather than having different models that are legal in some states and not in others. But you are right, the bayonet lug does make the rifle look better. |
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How many people would actually use the lug? Really? I sure wouldn't. Having that parasite (a bayonet) on it doesn't do anything for accuracy. Besides you have to ditch it anyway for a sound suppressor. That is a better option hands down. It would give me the excuse to buy a bayonet! 
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As has been the trend here, and on other boards with similar threads, the older SAs don't have any problems. It is the newer ones. Usually within the past 3 - 4 years.
Main issues being: #1. Out of spec reciever. So that mounting and zeroing a scope is hard/difficult/impossible to do. #2. Bolt roller cutout on right rail missing or not cut deep enough. Causing bolt roller to fall off duriing use. #3. Rough cut chamber. Cases stick in chamber. #4. Receiver bridge out of spec. Most of this is a sign of spotty quality control. |
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As has been the trend here, and on other boards with similar threads, the older SAs don't have any problems. And that's where I have to disagree. While I think the quality was generally better in the earlier years, the record is not spotless there either. Maybe it depends on what period you define as "older". For example, let's talk about my mid-1994 all Winchester USGI model, built in a period most consider to be the "golden years":
I honestly think that most of these threads come about because different people have different expectations for the product. Again, I wouldn't call SAI "junk" but they do not strive to a level of quality where the most discerning shooter is guaranteed to be happy. On the other hand, the average sportsman who shoots a box or two per year and sprays the berm at 25 yards with the rifle is bound to be please no matter what example he holds. |
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As has been the trend here, and on other boards with similar threads, the older SAs don't have any problems. It is the newer ones. Usually within the past 3 - 4 years. Main issues being: #1. Out of spec reciever. So that mounting and zeroing a scope is hard/difficult/impossible to do. Most of this is a sign of spotty quality control. This was also a problem in the 1960's with USGI NM M14 Rifles to be used for scoped sniper use. The simple answer was to check how good the receiver mounting slots were and to not use the bad ones. This option isn't available to people that don't have many rifles to pick through. |
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So if one was in the market for a M1A, should they save the money for a higher quality? Some you say yes and some of you say no... If are in the market an M1A, your choice is Springfield Armory, Inc. Other makers of M14 clones use different model numbers. |
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Anyone know why they don't place the bayonet lugs on them anymore? Just always thought it looked better with one on the rifle. I would imagine that SA is trying to remain compliant with AWBs that were enacted by various states, rather than having different models that are legal in some states and not in others. But you are right, the bayonet lug does make the rifle look better. I spent the money (less that $70 or so) to make my M14S 922 compliant just so I could put the lug on there and I DO have a bayonet for it. 
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Quoted: This is not GD. Lighten up francis...Quoted: Really . . . . so the same amount of gas is going to make it faster huh . . . . . . If one is equal to another then thay are just that . . . . equal . . . . One doesnt all of a sudden become violently unmanagable due to their equality. Gas port sizing isnt a shot in the dark. Its fundimetally sound math. To acheive the equal amout of gas transfer through a shorter barrel you enlarge the gas port, however you have to time the process of bullet flight and available pressures to work with. Distance travled, distance left to travel before bullet exit etc. . . . There is acually math involved. Its not done buy guys guessing which drill bit to grab on the next attempt. Broken rollers were due to a problem with the (read) receiver being out of spec. It has nothing to do with the system in use or your theory of increadable pressure spikes etc. Since suppressors have nothing to do with this debate Im not even going to touch upon them. I would be typing for hours to expain the gas and pressure dispacement on how a suppressor actually works. I'd love to hear your explanation of how this theory works in the AR15 world. I've noticed a HUGE difference between bolt speed etc between suppressed 10 inch carbines, 16 inch M4geries, Mid length and 20 inch rifles. I was simply attributing the same theory to the M14 system. Lighten up Francis. You're going to have a coronary. It's not a debate, you think it's a debate, and I couldn't give two squirts of monkey piss what you think! I posited a theory, you went the nasty route. I couldn't care less that you don't think my (read) THEORY might be wrong, it was, after all, just a thought about a reason for roller snapping. Oh, and just so you know, there was a person on this website that had the exact scenario happen to them I described, shooting full power ammunition through a SOCOM with a suppressor, which the company specifically cited as the reason he had a roller snap off. Anyway, just for you I looked at my M14 and my brother's SOCOM next to each other, and you're probably right, I noticed the gas system is in exactly the same spot as it is on the full length rifle. My mistake, I assumed they abbreviated the gas system also. Can you forgive me? Pweese? and buy a fucking membership. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is Springfield Armory junk? (Page 1 of 2)
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