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Posted: 2/9/2009 6:59:49 AM EDT
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I've had good luck loading jacketed and plated bullets in common pistol calibers. I've always prefered encapsulated/Total metal jacket bullets where the lead base is covered with copper. My thinking was this would eliminate lead in the barrel and it has but prices of these bullets are getting to be a bit much so......
Looking at http://www.magnusbullets.com/ I see that lubed and ready to load solid lead bullets are a whole lot cheaper than jacketed or plated bullets and I am going to order some. I going to try Magnus lead bullets in 9mm Luger for use in a CZ75 SPO1, .45 Auto for use in a Wilson Combat 1911 Gov. and .38 Special for use in a Taurus model 627, 6.5" ported barrel. Feel free to comment on or add to the following: -I would like to know some of the specifics when loading lead as opposed to loading jacketed bullets like I have heard that lead should be loaded slower than jacketed. Personally I do not load hot as I shoot slower ammo better. -Barrel leading can be for the most part eliminated by loading to proper O.A.L. I read in another post here that leading is often caused by the bullet scraping something? Maybe the forcing cone when proper OAL is not observed. Comment or info? -Different manufactures make their lead bullets to different hardness...is this true? The harder the lead the less barrel leading you get. Is this true? How do you minimize barrel leading when shooitn lead bullets Has anyone tried Magnus lead bullets? Which lead bullets or lead bullet maker do you like and why? and any other helpful info I would appreciate. Thanks VonBark |
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-I would like to know some of the specifics when loading lead as opposed to loading jacketed bullets like I have heard that lead should be loaded slower than jacketed. Personally I do not load hot as I shoot slower ammo better.
-Barrel leading can be for the most part eliminated by loading to proper O.A.L. I read in another post here that leading is often caused by the bullet scraping something? Maybe the forcing cone when proper OAL is not observed. Comment or info? Leading and OAL? Huh? I've never heard of OAL being put at the top of the list. But, there are many contributing factors. Most times, the amount of leading you get is a function of: velocity, hardness of the lead, quality of the lube, bullet design, actual bullet size v. actual barrel size, barrel condition (not in any particular order). -Different manufactures make their lead bullets to different hardness...is this true? Yes. The harder the lead the less barrel leading you get. Is this true? See above. How do you minimize barrel leading when shooitn lead bullets See above, use efforts that will mitigate the leading. Has anyone tried Magnus lead bullets? Nope. I use a different brand. Actually, whatever I find cheap. Which lead bullets or lead bullet maker do you like and why? Cheap, hard cast w/the hard wax type lube. Hint: You might want to re-read the chapter in your re-loading manual that deals with lead bullets. The SPEER manual noted that they were using their bullets with their re-load data. And, SPEER noted that they were trying for recreation/accuracy shooting..........not pushing things (like for "defensive rounds"). And, so? So, SPEER bullets are swaged (soft lead) not hard cast. Think for a second, "How does that affects things?" Anyway read your manual carefully. And, as always, start low and work your way up. HTH. Aloha, Mark |
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Don't use lead for defense ammo unless it is in buckshot. Why? Lead bullets have killed a lot of people. Think about a 44 cal 240 grain slug to the chest. Don't get me wrong I would prefer a nice hollow point, but if it came down to it I would not feel inferior with a cast bullet. |
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I shoot Laser Cast 158 gr. SWC and RNFP in my 38 and 357 loads,there around 18 to 20 hardness so I push them rather hard in the 357 loads around 1200 fps. There sized .001 over bore diameter leading isn't a problems and cleanup takes no more time than normal cleaning would. My groups run about 1 to 1 1/2" out of my single action Ruger BlackHawk@ 25 Yds..
Proper bullet dia vs. bore dia,velocity vs. hardness of lead are the main things to consider that cause leading problems. I always bell the case mouth with lead bullets so it doesn't scrape lead off the bullet as it's seated to the proper depth,thats why they put the case mouth expander die in the pistol die sets for lead,plated and cast bullets. Lyman makes an excellent manual for working with cast bullets. |
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I shoot Laser Cast 158 gr. SWC and RNFP in my 38 and 357 loads,there around 18 to 20 hardness so I push them rather hard in the 357 loads around 1200 fps. There sized .001 over bore diameter leading isn't a problems and cleanup takes no more time than normal cleaning would. My groups run about 1 to 1 1/2" out of my single action Ruger BlackHawk@ 25 Yds.. Proper bullet dia vs. bore dia,velocity vs. hardness of lead are the main things to consider that cause leading problems. I always bell the case mouth with lead bullets so it doesn't scrape lead off the bullet as it's seated to the proper depth,thats why they put the case mouth expander die in the pistol die sets for lead,plated and cast bullets. Lyman makes an excellent manual for working with cast bullets. From what I've read on the subject of leading, bullet diameter is more critical than hardness. Of course you can't use pure lead for smokeless loads but sizing your bullets .001 over bore size seems to be the key. A BHN number of 11-13 is sufficient for most pistol bullets not going faster than 800-900 fps. Go to "cast boolits" forums for a boatload of info. |
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Quoted:
I shoot Laser Cast 158 gr. SWC and RNFP in my 38 and 357 loads,there around 18 to 20 hardness so I push them rather hard in the 357 loads around 1200 fps. There sized .001 over bore diameter leading isn't a problems and cleanup takes no more time than normal cleaning would. My groups run about 1 to 1 1/2" out of my single action Ruger BlackHawk@ 25 Yds.. Proper bullet dia vs. bore dia,velocity vs. hardness of lead are the main things to consider that cause leading problems. I always bell the case mouth with lead bullets so it doesn't scrape lead off the bullet as it's seated to the proper depth,thats why they put the case mouth expander die in the pistol die sets for lead,plated and cast bullets. Lyman makes an excellent manual for working with cast bullets. The cast bullets I normally use in .38/.357 are BHN 12-15 and I run them at the same 1200 fps without any problems. |
| I love loading lead bullets..its not that I am a cheap wad but I love to shoot alot. a standard range session will usually cost me 750 -1000 rounds every couple of weeks. I find the lead way more accurate than fmjs no matter who makes them . I load for my 45acp, 9mm, 40 s&w and 357 magnum. 1 thing I found in my own pistols is that I load the bullet so that the base of the round nose ,where the round nose meets the part of the bullet that actually gets seated into the case, I seat that right to the top of the case and then taper crimp it. It has taken a few rounds to get it just right but man I have no leading problems due to scraping, I have zero feeding problems and they are wicked accurate. I have data provided by lee that is awsome I get a 125 lead rn from my 9mm going 1200 fps and a 45 acp 230gr rn to 950 fps and .40 180 tc to 1050fps...all in all these are great velocities even in a fmj or encapsulated projectile and again they have provided accuracy that far exceeds any fmjs I have been able to load, and at a much cheaper cost. I personaly shoot Missouri bullets. at around 35.00 per 500 I find them a great cost efective way to shoot. They have also been optimized for their hardness to help eliminate leading. usually i bu 2000 of each caliber at a time and Ive stocked up pretty good. |
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I shoot Laser Cast 158 gr. SWC and RNFP in my 38 and 357 loads,there around 18 to 20 hardness so I push them rather hard in the 357 loads around 1200 fps. There sized .001 over bore diameter leading isn't a problems and cleanup takes no more time than normal cleaning would. My groups run about 1 to 1 1/2" out of my single action Ruger BlackHawk@ 25 Yds.. Proper bullet dia vs. bore dia,velocity vs. hardness of lead are the main things to consider that cause leading problems. I always bell the case mouth with lead bullets so it doesn't scrape lead off the bullet as it's seated to the proper depth,thats why they put the case mouth expander die in the pistol die sets for lead,plated and cast bullets. Lyman makes an excellent manual for working with cast bullets. From what I've read on the subject of leading, bullet diameter is more critical than hardness. Of course you can't use pure lead for smokeless loads but sizing your bullets .001 over bore size seems to be the key. A BHN number of 11-13 is sufficient for most pistol bullets not going faster than 800-900 fps. Go to "cast boolits" forums for a boatload of info. It's not just the bore diameter, but the throat diameter as well. |
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I've had good luck loading jacketed and plated bullets in common pistol calibers. I've always prefered encapsulated/Total metal jacket bullets where the lead base is covered with copper. My thinking was this would eliminate lead in the barrel and it has but prices of these bullets are getting to be a bit much so...... Looking at http://www.magnusbullets.com/ I see that lubed and ready to load solid lead bullets are a whole lot cheaper than jacketed or plated bullets and I am going to order some. I going to try Magnus lead bullets in 9mm Luger for use in a CZ75 SPO1, .45 Auto for use in a Wilson Combat 1911 Gov. and .38 Special for use in a Taurus model 627, 6.5" ported barrel. Feel free to comment on or add to the following: -I would like to know some of the specifics when loading lead as opposed to loading jacketed bullets like I have heard that lead should be loaded slower than jacketed. Personally I do not load hot as I shoot slower ammo better. -Barrel leading can be for the most part eliminated by loading to proper O.A.L. I read in another post here that leading is often caused by the bullet scraping something? Maybe the forcing cone when proper OAL is not observed. Comment or info? -Different manufactures make their lead bullets to different hardness...is this true? Yes. Many will post the Brinell hardness number. The harder the lead the less barrel leading you get. Is this true? NO! There is a ballance between hardness and pressure. A bullet that is too hard for the pressure will not expand to seal the bore and will have hot gas blow by and melt the side of the bullet depositing lead. Also, if the pressure is too high for the hardness this will also cause leading for other reasons. With a given bullet design, hardness, and lube type one needs to experiment a bit to find the powder and charge that minimizes leading. How do you minimize barrel leading when shooitn lead bullets. By choosing the right alloy, size, and lube for the velocity I wish to achieve. Has anyone tried Magnus lead bullets? I have not. Which lead bullets or lead bullet maker do you like and why? My own cast bullets since I can control the alloy, heat-treatment, and lube choice. and any other helpful info I would appreciate. If you can, recover some your first fired bullets, especially if heavy leading is present. By looking at the base, you should be able to tell if the leading is due to gas cutting past the base and on to the side of the bullet. When present, you need to increase your powder charge. If gas cutting is not the present, then look at the sides of the bullet at the rifling marks. If skidding (the land and groove are not sharp on all edges) is present then the alloy/heat treatment is too soft for the load and you need to reduce the powder charge. Skidding can be hard to determine when the bullet is recovered from a dirt bank or when it was shot through a piece of wood. These conditions will generally abrade the sides of the bullet. Though water will often mushroom the nose, it will leave the sides and base fairly intact for evaluation. Several one-gallon water jugs will stop pistol bullets for evalutation. Fortunately, most pistol bullets have ample grease grooves, so lack of lube is not usually a a cause of leading; rifle bullets are a different story, however. Leading due to lack of lube shows up near the muzzle while the rest of the bore is clean. Thanks VonBark |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I've had good luck loading jacketed and plated bullets in common pistol calibers. I've always prefered encapsulated/Total metal jacket bullets where the lead base is covered with copper. My thinking was this would eliminate lead in the barrel and it has but prices of these bullets are getting to be a bit much so...... Looking at http://www.magnusbullets.com/ I see that lubed and ready to load solid lead bullets are a whole lot cheaper than jacketed or plated bullets and I am going to order some. I going to try Magnus lead bullets in 9mm Luger for use in a CZ75 SPO1, .45 Auto for use in a Wilson Combat 1911 Gov. and .38 Special for use in a Taurus model 627, 6.5" ported barrel. Feel free to comment on or add to the following: -I would like to know some of the specifics when loading lead as opposed to loading jacketed bullets like I have heard that lead should be loaded slower than jacketed. Personally I do not load hot as I shoot slower ammo better. -Barrel leading can be for the most part eliminated by loading to proper O.A.L. I read in another post here that leading is often caused by the bullet scraping something? Maybe the forcing cone when proper OAL is not observed. Comment or info? -Different manufactures make their lead bullets to different hardness...is this true? Yes. Many will post the Brinell hardness number. The harder the lead the less barrel leading you get. Is this true? NO! There is a ballance between hardness and pressure. A bullet that is too hard for the pressure will not expand to seal the bore and will have hot gas blow by and melt the side of the bullet depositing lead. Also, if the pressure is too high for the hardness this will also cause leading for other reasons. With a given bullet design, hardness, and lube type one needs to experiment a bit to find the powder and charge that minimizes leading. If the bullet is of the correct diameter, it does not need to expand to seal the bore. Who the hell sells undersized bullets nowadays??? How do you minimize barrel leading when shooitn lead bullets. By choosing the right alloy, size, and lube for the velocity I wish to achieve. Has anyone tried Magnus lead bullets? I have not. Which lead bullets or lead bullet maker do you like and why? My own cast bullets since I can control the alloy, heat-treatment, and lube choice. and any other helpful info I would appreciate. If you can, recover some your first fired bullets, especially if heavy leading is present. By looking at the base, you should be able to tell if the leading is due to gas cutting past the base and on to the side of the bullet. When present, you need to increase your powder charge. If gas cutting is not the present, then look at the sides of the bullet at the rifling marks. If skidding (the land and groove are not sharp on all edges) is present then the alloy/heat treatment is too soft for the load and you need to reduce the powder charge. Skidding can be hard to determine when the bullet is recovered from a dirt bank or when it was shot through a piece of wood. These conditions will generally abrade the sides of the bullet. Though water will often mushroom the nose, it will leave the sides and base fairly intact for evaluation. Several one-gallon water jugs will stop pistol bullets for evalutation. Fortunately, most pistol bullets have ample grease grooves, so lack of lube is not usually a a cause of leading; rifle bullets are a different story, however. Leading due to lack of lube shows up near the muzzle while the rest of the bore is clean. Thanks VonBark For a far better analysis of leading, visit beartoothbullets.com |
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Generally, they require less powder. You want the lead to be different hardnesses for different purposes and velocities. Don't use lead for defense ammo unless it is in buckshot. Don't use lead for defense??? Lead has been shooting up people for longer than jacketed. You can have lead hollow points (I cast them). And Lead "mushrooms" nicely upon impact. You can bitch about lead all you want, but the proper load doesn't lead up the barrel (It took me a while to get the proper bullet) And they are FREE. (I cast). |
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