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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 1/29/2006 6:08:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:34:35 AM EST
mags are pricy at 35 or so compared to a 5 dollar FAL mag, but not a bank breaker like durring the AWB

find out how your ar10 runs befor you assume it has relibility issues. durring the AWB there were some converted mag related issues, factory mags have been good for quite some time

as you said the ar10 is at the top of your list in a few catogories, if relibility issues arise, they can be permently addressed with minmal effort and cost,

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:38:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:40:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 6:41:45 AM EST by 50cal]
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:51:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:39:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:40:01 AM EST by 50cal]
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:03:48 AM EST
I really don't know what your situation is, but as much as you say "I can't wait to move someday" or "Damn I hate NY" why not put the money into making someday sometime soon?

As far as your question, well I prefer the M14 type. But if I couldn't have, or didn't like the M14 (blasphemy) I'd be happy with my FAL.With a well built FAL, you can be quite happy and some even manage to convince themselves it's as good as the '14 types.

But I still think your best option is stop talking about moving, and do it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:55:45 AM EST
I have at least one of each of the 7.62x51 battle rifles .
If I had to narrow it down to one for general use , it would
have to be a DSA SA-58 tactical carbine with the short gas
system and the fixed X style butt stock with a free float tube .

You see I made the mistake of dressing up my long gas SA-58 with the
railed handguard , VFG , heavy scope cover , EOTech and a light .
It looks great , but it's like carrying around a medium sized child .

I speced out the short Tac Carbine for a friend , and it comes in
6 lbs lighter then mine . It's short quick and sweet just the way it
is . Not to mention reliable as a hammer and easy to maintain .

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 11:41:24 AM EST
well all in all i have had two ar10s and a third is being built in the upcomming months, one was a ar10t in 300 rsaum, the second is a custom 22inch SASS cloan.

my expierince with the ar10 has always been positive, it is the same operating systems as the ar15, so any type of maintnece/troubleshooting is much easier to address for me

although some may disagree, i have expierienced no more or less issues with my ar10's than in my ar15's

although there may have been issues a few years back about FTF's or FTE, i have never had any problems with any of my weapons, in regards to relibility, armed forces journal, reviewed the ar10 at blackwater, and at least one of the evaluators claimed it was the best 308 AR availible,

out of all the 308's i own,(M1a/stg58/ar10) i am only keeping the ar10 the other two rifles can not accomplish anything that the ar10 cant, they are nice, but just are to limited for me(modularity and accesories)

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:02:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:20:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By bishopm14:
I really don't know what your situation is, but as much as you say "I can't wait to move someday" or "Damn I hate NY" why not put the money into making someday sometime soon?

As far as your question, well I prefer the M14 type. But if I couldn't have, or didn't like the M14 (blasphemy) I'd be happy with my FAL.With a well built FAL, you can be quite happy and some even manage to convince themselves it's as good as the '14 types.

But I still think your best option is stop talking about moving, and do it.

That's cool... I have family issues keeping me relatively close for a couple more years most likely... after that, it will be a sad time, but I'll feel like I can move away and not feel bad about not being around for my grandmother. Someday I shall move to the promised land.

That's totally understandable. As long as there's a good reason, and I would have to agree that family is a good enough reason. I just have to wonder when people claim their job or some other stuff ties them to a certain spot. It's a big country with a lot of free America left, and no job is worth giving up your freedom. But that's just me.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:08:28 PM EST
The reason to have the AR10 is for all the reasons you have posted!!!!

I bought a P-38 AC war eagles and all,I plan to put new springs in it and shoot the hell out of it!!

It will not make it's value one bit less!!!

Your Ar10 new unfired will bring what more value to it?

Buy the time that a New unfired A10 will bring you any investment money,you could have saved thousands of dollars buying other light weight guns to fire that yours did from the get go!

Aside from weight(like mentioned the FAL says it best)!

It's your gun ,your time(use it wisely) and remember do you have anyone to leave these great treaures to?

I just visited my daughter saw my new 3 month old grandson,told her I had just bought a new NAZI war pistol to go with the Rem Rand!

She said we really are'nt into guns dad,we just hunt once a year(with rifles that I gave them)!!

So unless you have less disfuntional folks than mine,don't collect anything that you like to shoot!!

Cause when you die your kin will be off to the Pawn shop or local gun show to turn your Unfired A-10 into a new Vachume cleaner!!!

I have learned my lesson the hard way!!

I will find someone here at ARFCOM to leave my guns to!!!!

Or use them to buy some old booty!!!

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:45:16 PM EST
There was just a PTR-91 for sale in the EE without a muzzle device.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:15:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:20:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
I decided to just be happy with my FAL

How could anyone NOT be happy with an FAL.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:26:27 AM EST
I like the AR10's. I have 2 of them and have not had a problem with neither of them.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:35:57 AM EST
In my personal pickings goes like this. You have to throw COST out the window and pick what works and works well. A M14 built on a LBR reciever with USGI parts $2000 and something. A HK/Clone built with as many Military parts as they can get on it and be 922R . I use mag paltes & followrs to get pass some of it. Next would be a DSA FAL . There again praboly $1400-$2000 according which one you pick. These will all be Tight rifles with good accuaracy, and be very reliable. Now the only one you praboly can get into with less money , and still should be well made and reliable is the PTR 91 .I don't own one but have friends that do. They seem to be well made and have good parts in them. I built up a G3 NIB parts kit and in the end I had $1100 in it. ARS built it and its nicely done. I do own all three mentioned and the M14 is the go to out of all of them. Next would be the G3 and last the FAL. I realy don't care for the adjustable gas system. hats just me. Ive had more stoppages with the FAL's I own than the M14's and G3 combined. Not many but anough to let them slide to 3rd for me. They all are good rifles. WarDawg
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:41:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Also, I should mention that the M1A does nothing for me.

I always suspected you had deep-rooted mental issues

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 5:48:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:15:53 AM EST
Get both
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:24:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:39:43 AM EST
Fal would still be my choice
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:19:09 AM EST
Man, shoot that AR-10 and don't look back.

Second choice would be a FAL.

An HK-type rifle isn't even in the running for me.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:25:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:30:49 AM EST
You've left out the critical issue that everyone seems to, what do you want to use the rifle for?

The best 7.62 battle rifle is the FAL, period. It has AK reliablity, better than AK accuracy, in a better than AK caliber. It's also lighter than an AR10, M1A, or G3.

The best optior for accuracy, out of the box, is going to be the AR10. It also shares ergonomics with the AR15 which is a very good thing in terms of training or competing. They can be finicky but hopefully Armalite's new magazines and the new Rock River Arms take on the Bushmaster failure will put those problems to rest.

The most nostalgic is going to be the M1A. The biggest problem here is that almost all are Springfields, and they appear to be drowning in quality control problems of late.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:06:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:23:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:30:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Helldog40:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
hopefully Armalite's new magazines and the new Rock River Arms take on the Bushmaster failure will put those problems to rest.

Come on....dish! I was intrigued by Bushy's BAR-10 and the FN magazine use...sadly they've decided to cease production....What have YOU heard about RRA?

It's not a secret
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:38:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Who told you the AR10 was the lightest?

Armalite AR10 A4 Carbine, 9lbs

Armalite AR10 A4, 9.6 lbs

DSA SA58 Carbine, 8.35 lbs

DSA SA58 Standard, 8.75 lbs

And before anyone asks:
Springfield M1A Scout, 9 lbs

Springfield M1A Standard, 9.2 lbs

I do believe my AR10 carbine weighs less... anybody have the numbers on the SEBR carbine with the light barrel?

Doesn't look any different than the standard carbine to me
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:45:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:55:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:04:08 PM EST by in_burrito]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Well I'm glad they look the same. Anybody have the actual numbers?

You don't have to be a smartass. What is it that you think is different in your rifle that would cause it to be lighter? Hell, you yourself say you don't shoot your SEBR and it just sits in the safe, so what are you basing your theoretical weight on?

This is the standard AR10 A4 Carbine barrel. How would it be made any lighter? What other parts could they possibly change to make it significantly lighter? Remember, we're talking .65 lbs here, or 11.7 oz. Where did they save weight? In fact, if your receiver extension goes all the way to the end of your stock, I bet your rifle actually weighs more than the currently produced AR10 A4. Also that muzzle break likely weighs still more.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:58:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:08:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 2:14:12 PM EST by in_burrito]
I re-read your original post. You said your FAL carbine is custom built, which may mean that it has a heavy barrel which is what makes you say "its heavy as a son of a bitch".

This is a current production SA58 barrel that comes in the 8.35 lb rifle. There are heavier options available. If you have a scope-mount on it that can also add to the weight.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:14:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 2:17:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:23:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:14:51 PM EST
Jesus Hiram, when did you turn into a limp wrister? Whats a few ounces? As to that AR-10, about the time it drops its mostly loaded mag under recoil like mine used to, you'll shave a few ounces off the weight

Shoot your damned rifles. I'm pretty sure you haven't taken up "battle rifle biathalon" in your spare time.

M1A hoser, huh? When you want an M1A butt whuppin' (at the rifle range, you sick puppy!), let me know
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:23:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:25:50 PM EST
In looking at the DSA link for their standard, it's obvious they've had to do some creative assembling to get a light FAL. That 8.75 lbs. is about the lightest you can get for a full size FAL, and is not representative of the type. Using lots of aluminum and thin U.S. made furniture it can apparently be done though. Comparing equivalent builds, i.e. standard rifle vs. standard rifle, etc. the FAL usually comes in a good bit heavier than a '14. My FN manual for the FAL lists it as 9.5 lbs. The comparison of the FAL as we would have adopted it, the T48, compared to the final proto for the '14 shows the FAL to be porkier by seven tenths of a pound.The FAL's heavier weight is mentioned in Army Ordnance's reports on the competition.And it's apparent every time I heft my fullsize FAL compared to the standard M1A, the FAL is heavier.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:11:23 AM EST
Yep, drop that bipod and put a standard top cover back on. I also put synthetic HGS on my DSA carbine-mostly because you could fry eggs on the aluminum guards if you dropped 2-3 mags through it quickly. My DSA also had the LW aluminum lower. It was a decent rifle.

You really don't want too much under 9lbs in a .308 if you intend to shoot it alot.

I liked my FAL, but the sights were a weak point, in terms of adjustability and the fact that the SOBS gouged my glasses on more than one occasion when snugging into it. My trigger was OK-but no crisp 2-stage like in my M1As. The other main drawback with my DSA was that when tightly slinging the rifle, shots would pull low left-BADLY. As a guy who almost never shoots from a bench, that was unacceptable to me.

The M1A has been described as the riflemans' rifle. I'd have to agree.

If you want optics, buy an AR-10 (and pray/burn incense candles/sacrifice a chicken, etc) that it will work as advertised . Obviously some do

Personally, I'm quite interested in seeing how the Rock River .308s work out. I still have a number of new FAL mags tucked away. I'll work on Aimless to buy one so I can play with it
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