Help!! Potential problems with a Trust. > General NFA Questions

Posted: 10/11/2008 9:24:49 PM EDT

I have a Trust in MD with NFA items. In a few years I could move back to MO. MO does NOT recognize a trust to purchase NFA items. They do allow INDV/CORP/LLC to purchase NFA Items. I was told by my C3 dealer that I would be fine because the Trust was formed in MD but could not buy new NFA items with said Trust in MO. Will MO recognize the trust or will I have to transfer items to a INDV/CORP/LLC and pay the transfer tax again on something that I legally all ready own???

Posted: 10/12/2008 1:27:38 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I have a Trust in MD with NFA items. In a few years I could move back to MO. MO does NOT recognize a trust to purchase NFA items. They do allow INDV/CORP/LLC to purchase NFA Items. I was told by my C3 dealer that I would be fine because the Trust was formed in MD but could not buy new NFA items with said Trust in MO. Will MO recognize the trust or will I have to transfer items to a INDV/CORP/LLC and pay the transfer tax again on something that I legally all ready own???

Sounds like you be be taxed again. I am NO expert, just reacting to what I've read. Others will be along with alternate solutions if there are any.

Posted: 10/12/2008 3:00:31 AM EDT

[#2]

I would venture a guess that you will not need to transfer them again to an Individual/Corp/LLC as I believe Federal law trumps state law. In Texas, the ownership of NFA is prohibited and the Federal laws which allow one to purchase, transfer, and legally own Title II items are a defense to prosecution as the individual does not own them the trust does.

Keep in mind I am by no means an expert on the subject matter so my advice should not be taken without consulting a lawyer that specializes in the area.

I am positive someone will be along shortly to give you a much better handle on the situation than I but at the very least you should seek valid legal advice before doing anything.

Posted: 10/12/2008 3:31:12 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
I would venture a guess that you will not need to transfer them again to an Individual/Corp/LLC as I believe Federal law trumps state law. In Texas, the ownership of NFA is prohibited and the Federal laws which allow one to purchase, transfer, and legally own Title II items are a defense to prosecution as the individual does not own them the trust does.
Keep in mind I am by no means an expert on the subject matter so my advice should not be taken without consulting a lawyer that specializes in the area.

I am positive someone will be along shortly to give you a much better handle on the situation than I but at the very least you should seek valid legal advice before doing anything.

??????? What about the folks that buy NFA without the use of a Trust/Corp/LLC and go the individual route? As you said I am no expert either, but thought that NFA items were perfectly legal in Texas unless prohibited by local laws.

Posted: 10/12/2008 3:51:01 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
??????? What about the folks that buy NFA without the use of a Trust/Corp/LLC and go the individual route? As you said I am no expert either, but thought that NFA items were perfectly legal in Texas unless prohibited by local laws.

I found this after a quick web search:

www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf

Just do a ctrl+f for machine guns. I'm trying to find the actual Texas Penal Code. I know some people that have gone the individual route with a CLEO sign-off but that of course will vary from county to county.

It is unlawful to possess, manufacture, transport, repair or
sell a machine gun, explosive weapon, short-barreled firearm,
or silencer. Federal registration of such an item under the
National Firearms Act is a defense to this prohibition.

Posted: 10/12/2008 4:42:09 AM EDT

[#5]

I have a Trust in MD with NFA items.

That's a shame, because I keep hearing that CLEO signoffs are available through the Maryland State Police.

In a few years I could move back to MO. MO does NOT recognize a trust to purchase NFA items. They do allow INDV/CORP/LLC to purchase NFA Items.

The problem is that Missouri requires a FFL (most people get a C&R) for most NFA items, and a trust can't get a FFL.

I was told by my C3 dealer that I would be fine because the Trust was formed in MD but could not buy new NFA items with said Trust in MO.

I doubt the NFA branch would approve an Application to Transport Interstate without a FFL, and trusts can't get a FFL.

Will MO recognize the trust or will I have to transfer items to a INDV/CORP/LLC and pay the transfer tax again on something that I legally all ready own???

Your best bet would be to transfer them to yourself while you're living in Maryland. You'll still need to get a C&R before moving to Missouri.

Posted: 10/12/2008 9:43:52 AM EDT

[#6]

Texas Penal Code, § 46.05


	§ 46.05.  PROHIBITED WEAPONS.  (a)  A person commits an 
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, 
transports, repairs, or sells:
		(1)  an explosive weapon;                                                     
		(2)  a machine gun;                                                           
		(3)  a short-barrel firearm;                                                  
		(4)  a firearm silencer;                                                      
		(5)  a switchblade knife;                                                     
		(6)  knuckles;                                                                
		(7)  armor-piercing ammunition;                                               
		(8)  a chemical dispensing device;  or                                        
		(9)  a zip gun.
...
	(c)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that 
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the 
National Firearms Act, as amended.

So, yes, they are illegal. But, the chances of being prosecuted are probably very small because of subsection (c).

Were it not for subsection (c), Texas could prosecute. Of course, in the end as long as your lawyers got his elementary school degree, Texas would have to cave and either be forced to strike the law, or add something like (c).

Posted: 10/12/2008 3:59:44 PM EDT

[#7]

I am going to call ATF on Tuesday. Will post response.

Posted: 10/13/2008 8:15:14 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I am going to call ATF on Tuesday. Will post response.

The problem with that is the ATF isn't what most folks would consider an "expert" on individual State requirements and regulations. After all, the ATF has approved Form 4 items for folks in states that do not allow NFA goodies.

Posted: 10/13/2008 8:48:17 AM EDT

[#9]

In MO you need an FFL (C&R or better) to own NFA items. A trust can not get a C&R license. A natural person (individual), Corp, or LLC can. In Maryland, you are in excellent position to get a CLEO sign-off from the state police, and be able to own NFA as an individua. Don't waste your time and money with the trust. Do it as an individual, and you won't have to do any transfers later (just don't move them to MO until you have your c&r 5320.2 in hand).

Maryland signoff thread in the MD Hometown

Posted: 10/13/2008 7:58:20 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Texas Penal Code, § 46.05


	§ 46.05.  PROHIBITED WEAPONS.  (a)  A person commits an 
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, 
transports, repairs, or sells:
		(1)  an explosive weapon;                                                     
		(2)  a machine gun;                                                           
		(3)  a short-barrel firearm;                                                  
		(4)  a firearm silencer;                                                      
		(5)  a switchblade knife;                                                     
		(6)  knuckles;                                                                
		(7)  armor-piercing ammunition;                                               
		(8)  a chemical dispensing device;  or                                        
		(9)  a zip gun.
...
	(c)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that 
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the 
National Firearms Act, as amended.

So, yes, they are illegal. But, the chances of being prosecuted are probably very small because of subsection (c).

Were it not for subsection (c), Texas could prosecute. Of course, in the end as long as your lawyers got his elementary school degree, Texas would have to cave and either be forced to strike the law, or add something like (c).

Every "state" has one of these type laws. Arizona has one and there is a TON of NFA stuff in this state. The law simply means if you don't have the NFA items registered they will prosecute you under that law. It does not phohibit some one who has done the paperwork through ATF and legaly owns NFA items. I know several people who have gone individual NFA in Texas.

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