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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/25/2002 9:56:00 AM EST
I was shooting my Bushie M4 today and had a FTE. I tried to clear it, but the bolt and carrier are stuck. The lugs on the bolt don't look to be engaged in the barrel but it won't move at all. The bolt carrier will slide back and forth about 1/2 inch and stop. I searched around for my brass and I found one with the primer missing. I'm assuming its stuck in there somehow. Ammo was new win. Q3131. Should I send it back to Bushmaster? Any ideas how I can get the bolt open without breaking this thing? Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:02:02 AM EST
Is there a brass still in the chamber? If so it may be an oversized brass that stuck and you will have to ape it back.
Is there a brass stuck between the gas tube and the bolt carrier? If so you will have to completely break down the weapon and by that I mean remove the buffer tube. Can you seperate the upeer from the lower? Give us more info and pics if you have them.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:03:21 AM EST
Hold rifle muzzle up, put downward pressure on charging handle, and rap butt sharply on ground or other firm surface. This will usually remove most brass that is just "stuck."

Can you remove the upper from the lower, and check to see if everything looks ok? Firing pin where it's supposed to be? Sometimes the cam pin will break and twist enough to get stuck, or the firing pin will somehow come out and allow the cam pin to twist.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:07:53 AM EST
Thank God you were not using Wolf ammo. I don't know if I could stand 50 more posts on how bad it is. Stop using that crappy, brass Q3131. (sarcasm)
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:08:26 AM EST
I'm able to separate the upper and lower, but I can't get the bolt and carrier to come out. There is still an empty in the chamber as far as I know. I'm not sure whats hanging it up, but i'm think its the missing primer from the last round I fired. I'm gonna mess with it some more and see if i can figure out anything else
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:10:45 AM EST
Rock River Arms
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:15:00 AM EST
I had a similar jam not too long ago.

Turn your upper upside down with the barrel pointing to the left. On the far right, is the bolt carrier sticking out of the upper a little bit? Mine was. I put a screwdriver in the cut out in the bottom of the bolt carrier (which is now facing up) and "pried" against the block where the rear pushpin hole is. I had to put very little pressure on it, and the bolt carrier popped back. Mine had a live round that it spit out.

Of course, YMMV. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:15:29 AM EST
Funny you mention that Mugzilla, I just sold my 20" Bushie HBAR so I could buy a CMP legal Rock River. Should have it in a couple weeks. :-)
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:30:16 AM EST
OK, I was able to get the bolt back most of the way, but its very tight. There is an empty in there but its not stuck. I'm pretty sure it's that primer now. I can see a small scratch inside the upper where its hanging up. Anyone ever had this happen? I'm afraid to force the bolt back anymore, I don't want to damage the receiver.

Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:35:33 AM EST
I got it! I tapped the bolt back forward and then pulled it back and everything came out. It was that stupid primer. Gonna look everything over real good and put it back together. Not sure if I'm gonna use any more Q3131. (not Q3131a) Any thoughts on that?
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 10:35:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mike92GT:OK, I was able to get the bolt back most of the way, but its very tight. There is an empty in there but its not stuck. I'm pretty sure it's that primer now. I can see a small scratch inside the upper where its hanging up. Anyone ever had this happen? I'm afraid to force the bolt back anymore, I don't want to damage the receiver.




Never had it happen.

I'd work the bolt back and forth as I could, shaking the upper at all angles... maybe you'll get lucky and the primer will fall out.

Failing that, I guess you could use a blast of compressed air at the right angle to try to blow it out.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 11:06:45 AM EST
The exact same thing happened to my wife's BM16" last week at the range. We were shooting up the last of my Malaysian surplus. Probably a hot load in one of the rounds blew the primer out of the pocket and locked the weapon up tight. The primer wedged in around one of the bolt lugs. I couldn't even break down the upper and lower receivers.

I have never had to slam the butt of any AR on the ground to release the bolt before, but I sure had to with hers. I probably slammed the butt seven or eight times before the bolt came loose.

It sucks that it happened at that specific time. My wife is taking a genuine liking to shooting after 13 years, and it was the first time she was putting her new Bushie through it's paces. Not a good first time experience for her with a new weapon.

I am seriously considering saying "no" to all surp ammo from now on. I will probably shoot up my fairly large supply over the next couple of years. I think I'll buy myself a Dillon 650 for Christmas and start loading all of my own. I've reloading all of my hunting rounds for years, but I think I'll start loading everything for my black rifles as well.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 11:23:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
Thank God you were not using Wolf ammo. I don't know if I could stand 50 more posts on how bad it is. Stop using that crappy, brass Q3131. (sarcasm)




Hey now, you just started it!!
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 2:28:59 PM EST
Just bought some Q3131a today in part because of all the good reports I've been hearing. Looks like standard military stuff w/ crimped primers. Did the "non a" stuff not have primer crimps?

Also, assuming properly loaded ammo, it's very rare to lose even an uncrimped primer unless the headspace on the rifle is way over max. I'm assuming semi auto fire here. Full auto can be a different story. Suggest you check, or have checked, headspace, and if it's OK, believe Winchester-Western needs to hear from you. Either way, I'm happy that you got the stoppage cleared w/o damaging anything.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 4:13:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:14:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
Thank God you were not using Wolf ammo. I don't know if I could stand 50 more posts on how bad it is. Stop using that crappy, brass Q3131. (sarcasm)




I was thinking the same thing, it couldn't of been the ammo, it must of been the rifle this time.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 5:19:14 PM EST
Dont use that Q3131 anymore and buy a colt.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 6:49:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2002 6:52:24 PM EST by sniper1az]
Go to the hardware store & buy a metal dowel rod 30" in length . Insert rod into barrel at muzzle end (you DID say it had an empty in it didn't you?) Take small hammer & tap end of rod until bolt is free . Seen this done by a gunsmith ... no other way to unjam it .Glad it wasn't my rifle.
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 7:08:14 PM EST
Hmmm. Could the primer be stuck under the front of the trigger?
Link Posted: 7/25/2002 7:16:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mike92GT:
I got it! I tapped the bolt back forward and then pulled it back and everything came out. It was that stupid primer. Gonna look everything over real good and put it back together. Not sure if I'm gonna use any more Q3131. (not Q3131a) Any thoughts on that?



Where exactly did this primer end up? I'd like to know just so I'll know for future reference.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 10:27:17 AM EST
Yes, it was the older Q3131, not the Q3131a. I looked them over and all the primers look to be crimped. I'm going to make sure and inspect all my empty brass next time I go shoot to check for anything abnormal. As far as where the primer was stuck, if you remove the bolt and carrier and look inside the upper receiver, there is a half moon shaped cutout in the upper where the cam pin rotates. Judging from the marks in the receiver the primer got into this cutout and got wedged between the receiver and the top of the bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 11:36:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:
Thank God you were not using Wolf ammo. I don't know if I could stand 50 more posts on how bad it is. Stop using that crappy, brass Q3131. (sarcasm)



Hey, certain lots of Q3131 are known to be bad. I stick with Q3131A.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 11:45:17 AM EST
My buddy, after trying my std a2 20", ordered the same thing but with their non-detachable carry handle!!! (So it has a weaver and std a2 sights!!!)

After you try the trigger, you'll put a rra in all of your ARs!!!

Link Posted: 7/26/2002 11:56:58 AM EST
Every time I see this happen I wonder why Winchester keeps selling the stuff. I just bought (this happened aways back) a Colt at a local gun show and bought some of that Q3131 just to do some blasting at the range. Strangest stuff I've ever shot -- some even short cycled and jammed the cartridge in the receiver. After a one or two more rounds I picked up one of the fired cases and the primer was missing. I picked up the other and as I picked it up off the ground the primer fell out! I dumped the rest of the rounds out of the mag and loaded in some Black hills I use for target practice and the rifle operated like a dream. I checked the brass on the fired Black Hills and the primers were fine with a nice firing pin dimple in them. I'm glad I didn't have a "Jammed up tight" problem like Mike92GT!
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 12:36:04 PM EST
I had some of the US produced Winchester Q3131 from 1999. In 120 round I poped two primers.

The first was just annoying (making the trigger hard and the safety non functional), it was easy to diagnose and fix.

The second round locked up my rifle just like yours. The primer gets lodged someplace and wedges in tight. When I couldn't fix it at the range I threw the rifle in the trunk and drove home (lots of bumpy roads along the way). When I got home I started to check it out and lo and behold the bolt carrier slid right out and out popped a smashed up primer. I figured the vibrations from the ride home must have loosened the primer up, and allowed it to drop out when tried the rifle at home. I still have that primer.
Link Posted: 7/26/2002 5:15:48 PM EST
You mentioned a 'mark' by the half-moon cutout Mike92GT.I noticed a mark there on my BM and then I was getting FTE's stuck between carrier and upper.When all was said and done BM replaced bolt and deburred carrier and now it's fine.My upper was replaced 2X because of the wear/damage that unfinished carrier was causing.
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