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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:54:57 PM EDT
In the Hornady 9th, they list a load for the 75gr BTHP and CFE223 at a MAX load of 26.5gr @ a COAL of 2.25.  I ran those numbers through Quickload and it estimates a pressure way over the max, even for NATO. The Hodgdon website lists their max at 25gr for a 75gr VLD and my other two books have nothing for CFE.



Curious if anyone has run CFE up that high with a 75gr and lived to tell about it....?
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 12:08:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 1:20:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2016 1:20:53 AM EDT by autoxinvr6]
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I don't use those bullet in my 1 in 9 twist AR, but I do have the new Hodgdon 2016 Annual manual.

They list;


With a 75 gr JLK VLD, max charge of CFE 223 is 25.0 grs, OAL 2.250.


With a 77 gr Sierra HPBT, max charge of CFE 223 is 24.3 grs, OAL 2.260.



As with any load, you should begin at the start load and work up.




BTW, my copy of Hornady 9 shows 24.9 grs max with their 75 gr bullet.


Perhaps your eyes went down one line to the BLC2 data with a 25.2 gr max charge?
View Quote



Pg. 156 shows .223 Rem Service Rifle with 24.9gr Max Charge but, on pg. 160 it shows 5.56 Nato @ 26.5gr.  I took a pic of mine in case it's different for some reason.

I definitely plan to work up from a reduced charge like usual, just that specific load caught my eye when going through my books, trying to decide on a start point.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 2:21:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 11:50:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2016 11:53:26 AM EDT by Vinny302]
My Sierra book does not even list CFE223. The Hogdon web site list starting load as 23gr and max load at 25gr. Start low and work up.

V
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 12:41:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Vinny302:
My Sierra book does not even list CFE223. The Hogdon web site list starting load as 23gr and max load at 25gr. Start low and work up.

V
View Quote



That's the plan, I'm just looking to see if anyone has taken it that far.   26.5gr seems extreme.   haha
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 2:20:05 PM EDT
24.0 CFE behind the H2279 (75 gr Hornady). 1 MOA at 300 yds. 2550 fps. Out of 18" 1:8 Wylde AR15.
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 7:29:26 PM EDT
I loaded 25.3 with out any pressure signs and it shot well
Link Posted: 2/18/2016 11:45:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By slschultz:
I loaded 25.3 with out any pressure signs and it shot well
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That's good then, any reason why you stopped at 25.3?
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 12:02:24 AM EDT
My 77s and 55s have to be pushed near Hodgdon max to get any accuracy. I am not sure I would trust Hornady's max load. Instead, if you are pushing for velocity, then let the chrono help your decision.

For me, I plink at 100 ever week... and rarely get to the long range so I am all about accuracy (and saving on consumables) over speed. CFE just happens to need higher dose for accuracy in my experience.

Link Posted: 2/19/2016 9:03:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2016 9:03:25 AM EDT by steve4102]
Also, when using Quickload, plug in the actual internal case capacity of your fired brass.


The default setting for the 223 is 28.8gr H20 and 28.5gr H20 for the 5.56.

Both of these are well below actual in my firearms.

The Avg capacity for my brass is 30.5gr H20.

Plugging that into QL and things get closer to reality.

What case capacity did you use?
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 10:15:50 AM EDT
It shot well enoigh and I just never took the time to do another test. I think I started at 24.5 worked to 25.3 then stopped.
Link Posted: 2/19/2016 2:31:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By djryan13:
My 77s and 55s have to be pushed near Hodgdon max to get any accuracy. I am not sure I would trust Hornady's max load. Instead, if you are pushing for velocity, then let the chrono help your decision.

For me, I plink at 100 ever week... and rarely get to the long range so I am all about accuracy (and saving on consumables) over speed. CFE just happens to need higher dose for accuracy in my experience.

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Originally Posted By djryan13:
My 77s and 55s have to be pushed near Hodgdon max to get any accuracy. I am not sure I would trust Hornady's max load. Instead, if you are pushing for velocity, then let the chrono help your decision.

For me, I plink at 100 ever week... and rarely get to the long range so I am all about accuracy (and saving on consumables) over speed. CFE just happens to need higher dose for accuracy in my experience.




I'm not sure I can trust it either but, I guess in the long run, the only way to know for sure is working up towards max anyway.    I'm looking for a nice middle ground with regards to velocity or accuracy.  I shoot 5.56 primarily through my 10.5in SBR.  I'm trying to get something with "better" velocity from the 10.5in and reasonable accuracy within 100yds (not looking for a tack driver, just reasonable accuracy).  Hoping for around 2400 fps from the 10.5 and maybe 2700fps from a 16in barrel.

Originally Posted By steve4102:
Also, when using Quickload, plug in the actual internal case capacity of your fired brass.


The default setting for the 223 is 28.8gr H20 and 28.5gr H20 for the 5.56.

Both of these are well below actual in my firearms.

The Avg capacity for my brass is 30.5gr H20.

Plugging that into QL and things get closer to reality.

What case capacity did you use?


I used the default 28.5.  I just plugged it in with your case capacity numbers and you're right, pretty large difference.  When I get back home from work tomorrow I'll measure a couple and see what capacity I am working with and go from there.
Link Posted: 2/21/2016 9:29:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2016 12:22:22 AM EDT by autoxinvr6]
I just wanted to come back with a quick update.

I made some 75gr loads with CFE223 and worked my way up from 24.5 to 26.5.   I got absolutely no pressure signs at 26.5, I was highly surprised actually.   I think I saved a case if anyone is interested in seeing it.  As far as chrono data, see below.

25.5gr CFE223
2.25OAL
75gr Hornady BTHP from a 16in AR15
Average Velocity - 2751 FPS
ES 52
SD 19


25.5gr CFE223
2.25OAL
75gr Hornady BTHP from a 10.5in AR15
Average Velocity - 2470 FPS
ES 103
SD 39

I was highly surprised to get nearly 2500 FPS avg from the 10.5  I have yet to chrono factory 55gr 5.56 from the 10.5 though.   I can post each specific string of the loads if anyone is curious.


Edit, I pulled the cases out of the bag that I shot 26.5gr through and looked at 'em again and there's a slight bit of primer flattening but, there's still some primer radius.  It's less flattening then any factory LC 5.56 and it was shot through a 10.5.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 12:32:37 AM EDT
How was accuracy? Did you pick a load for your rifle?
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 9:38:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By djryan13:
How was accuracy? Did you pick a load for your rifle?
View Quote


I didn't test for accuracy this go around due to limited time since my primary goal was velocity/energy over my 55gr load for my 10.5 but,  I am going to go back with .1 increments from 26gr-26.5gr and test for best accuracy.  My load will be somewhere in that range.  Even at 26gr the 75gr has more energy then my fastest 55gr load from the 10.5.
Link Posted: 2/22/2016 4:25:35 PM EDT
i have used it alot with both the moly coated 75 grain BTHP and the 64 grain Nosler solid base bonded bullet. (About 1000 75 and 500 64's).

CFE is much more consistant velkkocity and pressure with the Remington 7 1/2 primer than either the mild WW small rifle or hot CCI.  

If you use the Rem 7 1/2 you will save yourself alot of trouble.

You can easily make 2900 fps with the moly anyway, from a 20 inch 1-9 as the Hornady 556 manual suggests.  BLC2 is just 50 fps less.  Ive shot this at 1,000 yards and depending on temperature and humidity it is similar to a really fast CBC 77 ammo with SMK, about 35 MOA come ups.  

The 64 Nosler makes 3050 fps and even faster.

Ive been using WW brass just because I have alot of it.  

Max load of H4895 also a good load w Nosler.  

CFE is slow burning and kind of dirty with suppressor even with an adj gas port but it is hard to beat for velocity.  At long range i would rather have 2,900 fps than a one hole group but its around one inch in 1-9 and less than that in 1-8.  Also helps bullet fragment about 50 yards farther than even hot factory ammo like the excellent T2.

CFE is only powder I use for 75 and 64 Nosler.
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