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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/22/2002 7:34:39 AM EST
An American with a restraining order crossed the border into Canada and shot his ex-girlfriend's entire family and then turned the gun on himself. Here are two reactions:

Guns are a matter of national security
Re Murder suicide leaves five dead, June 16.
Why should Canadians worry about Al Qaeda when the real threat to our safety is just across the border? In its need for greater security the U.S. government is forcing Canada to incrase the scrutiny of persons and cargo going to the U.S. from Canda. What is the U.S. doing in return to ensure that its own citizens do not cross the border carrying guns into Canada?
The real threat to Canadian security is the American gun culture and the overflow of U.S. criminals bringing guns into Canada. The second threat to Canadian security is George W. Bush’s proposed changes to environmental legislation that will kill hundreds more people in Southern Ontario each year from increased cross-border pollution. Why worry about Osama bin Laden when we have Bush?

Deadly U.S. Import hits home in Grimsby
Re Murder suicide leaves five dead,June 15.

For the past nine months everyone has been talking about the events of Sept. 11 and the subsequent war on terror. I have never felt threatened in Canada. We are not the target. Now, with the events of June 14 in Grimsby, where an innocent family was brutally shot to death due to a jealous boyfriend, I feel threatened.
The neighbours and friends of this innocent family keep asking why. Guns are the reason why. If a jealous lunatic can cross our protected border with a gun and come to our country and kill an entire family, we should all be concerned.
While in Canada we have debatable gun laws, the gunslinging American situation is out of control.
I asked a class of participants in one of my training sessions who were all American: “How many of you know someone who owns a gun?” Ninety percent raised their hands. When I asked the same question of a Canadian audience, only 10 percent raised their hands.
If the U.S. is spending billions of dollars to protect its borders from terrorists, perhaps it should be looking in its own backyard. Maybe we should be protecting our borders from Americans coming into our country with guns.
Canada is not the Wild West, and as long as there is a Texan in the White House, the Wild West will win.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 7:42:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 7:47:58 AM EST
The American Illegally brought a gun into Canada. He then committed multiple illegal acts while there. Did the gun laws of Canada protect anyone? No. Would a gun in the hands of the Canadian victims have protected anyone? Yes. A world without guns is a world in which the weak are victimized.

By the way, you are a .
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 7:48:47 AM EST
I don't think he is trying to cause a fight. I think he is printing what Canadians feel. Now we don't know if these are HIS own reactions or what other people feel.

You need to realize snark is a gun owner and most likely feels different. We need his own thoughts on this. Second I want to Welcome you to the Board. You have found more than a WEB SITE this is a family.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 8:00:59 AM EST
Sorry, I guess I should have clarified that I do NOT agree with the comments in the articles. h.gif I'm not trying to getting everyone all roused up. I was just looking for your opinions on the border situation and how to keep everyone safe. If this guy had a restraining order on him, maybe they should have checked him out a little more carefully, or maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to purchase the gun.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 8:09:30 AM EST
Crimes of passion have and always will occur. A gun just happened to be the weapon the bad guy chose. He could have easily chosen a knife, a sword, poisoned the whole bunch or blown them up.

Why is it that Canada has so many muggings? Everyone I know who has spent any time in Canadian cities has been mugged at least once?
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 8:12:11 AM EST
You fail to recognize that this person violated several laws, murder being the most severe. If he was willing to commit all these crimes what makes you think he would respect tougher gun laws if they were in place. All tougher gun laws will do is to disarm the honest and increase the black market for illegal guns to the criminals.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 8:19:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 8:21:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 12:20:36 PM EST
"On June 10, four days after [his ex-girlfriend] removed her belongings, Kiss went to a gun store and ordered the Glock pistol along with 100 rounds of ammunition. He picked up the weapon two days later after a mandatory waiting period and left Milwaukee the next day."

That's what I find concerning. The man obviously has problems if he was willing to commit multiple murders, but he was easily able to procure a pistol even though he had a restraining order. Does that mean that he illegally purchased the weapon, or do they not check for restraining orders? Then he crossed the border at Rainbow bridge without any problems. Thanks for sharing your opinions and knowledge.
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 12:46:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 12:57:54 PM EST
Where was the restraining order filed, in the US or Canada?
Link Posted: 6/22/2002 1:21:27 PM EST
And that is the reason a person buying a gun should be checked thoroughly. (Here it comes I'm going to be killed by these guys) So before you jump to conclusions let me explain. If we are put under a real check and pass. We should then be allowed to buy anything we want. If when we apply for the permit you are given a full background check you should then also be allowed to carry Nationally CCW. Yes it is time consuming but sometimes we wait longer for a gun to be produced.

I am for instant check and even a little more. Your right it will not stop a person, bent on killing for whatever reason not to. What it will do is put a gun CCW in the hands of every person Nation wide to protect himself and others.

Am I wrong thinking this? Many of you will say yes with good reason I'm sure. There are cases of people who had trouble in the past that might be denied. There should be a system to take into consideration certain things I'm sure. We are a society who lives in different times then 30 to even when our country was born. In ways it might be more important now to own a gun than if you grew up in the Wild West or your nearest neighbor was 20 miles away.

You guys know me pretty much by now. I would do everything possible to increase our chances of owning a gun. I also want to increase our chances of a person not getting one to kill my Daughter if something goes haywire.

So now how do you tell a mad man from a sane man? You really can't there will always be a person slipping through the cracks like across boarders. 99.8% of us own guns on this site I'm sure. Most coming here are looking to buy a gun. Isn't it better to stand for tougher and a better freedom to carry?

Now with all my BS said we all know that isn't going to be. They will make the stricter laws to strip us of our right's. Just like they keep banning gun after gun. So this point will constantly be argued. What is the solution BEATS me. I know that what I said above is how I would handle it. OK EAT ME UP NOW I"M READY.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 7:44:07 AM EST
No, restraining orders do NOT appear on a background check. They are not the same as a warrant for an arrest. However, the murderer also lied on his Form 4473 when he wrote "no" in the question about whether or not he was under a restraining order.

As we all know, all the laws in the world won't stop crime.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:27:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By snark:
An American with a restraining order crossed the border into Canada and shot his ex-girlfriend's entire family and then turned the gun on himself.

I bet her family warned her about dating Americans.
Link Posted: 6/23/2002 8:42:31 AM EST
I didn't know that restraining orders didn't show up. I thought any type of domestic problem was a flag to check closer.

See there lies the problem with the 4473 form. Who the hell is going to admit he is a wife beater when buying a weapon. I should clarify those who are on a mission to KILL their wife or family that is.

Link Posted: 6/23/2002 3:54:18 PM EST
So... they want to make more laws to restrict gun ownership when they don't enforce the laws or use the tools that the laws created that currently exist?

What's wrong with this picture?
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