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Posted: 12/31/2011 5:46:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2012 6:49:18 PM EDT by SERVED_USMC]
Recently Ive got the hankerin for something a little different. I have an AR is just about every configuration that Ive wanted to build one. The majority in 5.56 and my most recent a Mega MA-TEN 20'' in 308.

Ok, lets face it. I dont think anyone is going to talk me out of it, but it made a good thread title.

My decision now is between the 16 and the 17. I see myself leaning towards the 17, and currently have my fun store guy looking for one in FDE (hard to find, i know). The obvious downfall of the 17 is the magazine availability at the moment. I dont see this as a huge problem. I dont need 10 right away, and can slowly acquire them a few at a time. The 16 is the classic argument of knock down power, but can be SBR'd without as much fear of loosing its "umphh". Dont own a 308 SBR, but everything Ive read and been told is that the 308 falls on its face something fierce once the barrel has been chopped.

Whichever one I end up with will be setup almost identical.
-FDE
-600 Scout light
-ACOG

For those of you who own both, your opinion would be ideal. for the guys that own one or the other, chime in and tell me what you think. Do you regret not getting a bigger/smaller caliber? Is there something else you wish you would have considered before picking one up?

The local shop currently has a 17 in black and gets a few 16s in about once a month. (if that changed anything)

ETA: I also have a YHM 5.56 and 7.62 can awaiting paperwork at my class 3 guys shop as we speak. So I can only assume that these will see quite a few suppressed rounds through it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:00:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 6:02:39 PM EDT by 325moutguru]
Because they're cool.

What do I win?

Edit: never mind, I can't read
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:09:55 PM EDT
Because there are very few parts available, and few aftermarket add-ons.

And the charging handle hurts.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:12:11 PM EDT
The are good rifles. But they really don't ring my bell. I actually think they are quite ugly. They are light though witch does make them nice. The magazine issue is quite ridiculous for the 17. They are expensive for what they are especially the 17. In my opinion if I wanted something different I would get a Keltec RFB.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 6:22:52 PM EDT by gunsho11b]
My biggest issue is getting spare mags. Other than that, I love my scar 17.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:25:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gunsho11b:
My biggest issue is getting spare mags. Other than that, I love my scar 17.


Am I crazy or did you edit your post? Didn't you sat spare parts and mags were a bitch to get?

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:42:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Because they're cool.

What do I win?

Edit: never mind, I can't read


No, you WIN.

I edited the title from "should' to "shouldnt"



Your prize is in the mail. It may or may not be my smelly gym socks from Wednesday!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:45:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WI57:
Because there are very few parts available, and few aftermarket add-ons.

And the charging handle hurts.


I personally think that this isnt a huge issue. You have to remember how long it took for the M16/M4 style rifles to gain such a huge civilian fan base before they started to have part galore offered for them. Now, with companies trying to stay one step ahead of the other, a lot of places are trying to get new things out there that the other guy doesnt have. When you only want a small number of things to make the rifle "yours", there is no need to have 1000+ things at your disposal. All of the aftermarket parts I listed are all things that are easily obtainable.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 7:30:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2012 5:46:08 AM EDT by Strongbow]
Actually, almost all parts are available pretty readily from a number of vendors. The exception being the bolt and barrel assemblies.

Also, I'd say that's more areason to own an AR than to NOT own a SCAR. The AR is now a public domain design, and that's good for the reasons you mentioned. But that doesn't mean the SCAR isn't a great design, worthy of a place of honor in your safe.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 8:06:49 PM EDT
No mags.... at least on the 17s.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 3:41:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2012 3:51:24 AM EDT by scottmon]
You shouldn't own one....you should own TWO!

Seriously, I already have a 17 and I'm considering cutting loose of a few other rifles to acquire a 16.

Yeah, mags for the 17 are hard to find right now. Due to .mil contracts being fulfilled first, but they will become available eventually.

I think people forget that the 17 was designed for the .mil and they should get the initial production instead of us civvies. Parts are hard to come by 'cause FN is using them all to build .mil guns. Same for mags.

So, if you want a semi-auto version of a newly issued .mil weapon, parts and mags you will have to be patient.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 8:56:54 AM EDT
I have a 16 and 17. They are both great guns. The only downsides I can see are spare mags for the 17 and spare bolts for both are hard to come by.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 9:29:13 AM EDT
I have one AR and it was DI. I put an AA piston kit on it so I could shoot it suppressed and more cleanly. I also have a SCAR 16S the I have the SBR paperwork in for right now. Shooting it suppressed is still way ahead of shooting my AR suppressed in terms of action noise (AFAICT) and how much cleaner the weapon system is. The recoil impulse is completely different. It's hard to describe.

The only reason I went with 556 over 762 is cost of feeding the beast. I also already have an FAL so that suites my needs just fine in the 762 department.

Have fun shopping for your gun and enjoy it when you get it.

Oh, BTW, I've seen vids on youtube where someone modified the 762 P-Mags for use in the SCAR 17. Looks like it worked just fine if you're somewhat mechanically inclined.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 9:50:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 2:10:14 PM EDT


Bitchin!!

So I just talked to the guy I go through. He said the price would be 2600.00. The closest thing that I have for a comparison online is another shop in Indiana whos asking 2900. So being that its something I want, I think the price is fair. He going to go on the hunt for me tomorrow and see where he can find one for me. He has gotten ahold of some obscure/hard to obtain items for me in the past. So I dont think it will be long before I have it.

As the guy above stated, he didnt have the need for a 17 being that he already had the FAL. I think if I went with the 16 I would regret not spending a few hundred more and getting the 308.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 2:41:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SERVED_USMC:


Bitchin!!

So I just talked to the guy I go through. He said the price would be 2600.00. The closest thing that I have for a comparison online is another shop in Indiana whos asking 2900. So being that its something I want, I think the price is fair. He going to go on the hunt for me tomorrow and see where he can find one for me. He has gotten ahold of some obscure/hard to obtain items for me in the past. So I dont think it will be long before I have it.

As the guy above stated, he didnt have the need for a 17 being that he already had the FAL. I think if I went with the 16 I would regret not spending a few hundred more and getting the 308.


I think it depends on what you want it for. IMO the 5.56 is more practical for defensive purposes, but to each own.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 3:35:55 PM EDT
for that price you can get an FDE scar17 and the scar 17 is nothing like the other 7.62s much less recoil and lighter
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 3:42:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coldair:
for that price you can get an FDE scar17 and the scar 17 is nothing like the other 7.62s much less recoil and lighter


Sorry if my post was unclear. That is the price of the 17. Not the 16.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 4:51:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2012 5:03:42 PM EDT by SERVED_USMC]
Riddle me this.

I see some pictures of the 17s in FDE. Some look almost a Tijicon style tan (shiny) and some that look flat. How do I assure when I have my guy get me one, I dont end up with the goofy shiny looking setup? Different generations? Pics below to illustrate.

ETA off topic: Is there a one stop shop in terms of aftermarket SCAR parts. I get a lot of my stuff through Rainier, but they dont carry anything SCAR related.

Shiny.


Not so shiny
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:52:16 PM EDT
because its hella-expensive...

I need full auto MACs to go above $4k before I can ever spend more than $2k on a semi auto rifle. Esp one that is not a factory SBR...
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 9:15:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SERVED_USMC:
Riddle me this.

I see some pictures of the 17s in FDE. Some look almost a Tijicon style tan (shiny) and some that look flat. How do I assure when I have my guy get me one, I dont end up with the goofy shiny looking setup? Different generations? Pics below to illustrate.

ETA off topic: Is there a one stop shop in terms of aftermarket SCAR parts. I get a lot of my stuff through Rainier, but they dont carry anything SCAR related.

Shiny.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/THROTTLEJUNKIES/scarshiny.jpg

Not so shiny
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/THROTTLEJUNKIES/scarnotshiny.jpg
The difference is the flash of the camera.

To answer your original question, your not cool enough for this bad boy!


You cant beat it really. The 17 IS the way to go.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 4:31:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
because its hella-expensive...

I need full auto MACs to go above $4k before I can ever spend more than $2k on a semi auto rifle. Esp one that is not a factory SBR...


Meh. Full auto MACs. You are not worthy of a SCAR. ;). If I want to waste ammo, I have a $300 Slidefire stock.

Quality costs, my friend. :).
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 6:24:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cetane:

Originally Posted By SERVED_USMC:
Riddle me this.

I see some pictures of the 17s in FDE. Some look almost a Tijicon style tan (shiny) and some that look flat. How do I assure when I have my guy get me one, I dont end up with the goofy shiny looking setup? Different generations? Pics below to illustrate.

ETA off topic: Is there a one stop shop in terms of aftermarket SCAR parts. I get a lot of my stuff through Rainier, but they dont carry anything SCAR related.

Shiny.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/THROTTLEJUNKIES/scarshiny.jpg

Not so shiny
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/THROTTLEJUNKIES/scarnotshiny.jpg
The difference is the flash of the camera.

To answer your original question, your not cool enough for this bad boy!


You cant beat it really. The 17 IS the way to go.










Link Posted: 1/2/2012 6:26:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Quake_Guy:
because its hella-expensive...

I need full auto MACs to go above $4k before I can ever spend more than $2k on a semi auto rifle. Esp one that is not a factory SBR...


Meh. Full auto MACs. You are not worthy of a SCAR. ;). If I want to waste ammo, I have a $300 Slidefire stock.

Quality costs, my friend. :).


Agreed. I found a MAC I want about a year ago and promptly talked myself out of it. Sure, I have 3k or so to spend on one. Unfortunately, with my trigger finger being the way it is, I would spend more time on the reloader than I would on the gun. Surely shooting 308 will be cheaper.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:05:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SERVED_USMC:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Because there are very few parts available, and few aftermarket add-ons.

And the charging handle hurts.


I personally think that this isnt a huge issue. You have to remember how long it took for the M16/M4 style rifles to gain such a huge civilian fan base before they started to have part galore offered for them. Now, with companies trying to stay one step ahead of the other, a lot of places are trying to get new things out there that the other guy doesnt have. When you only want a small number of things to make the rifle "yours", there is no need to have 1000+ things at your disposal. All of the aftermarket parts I listed are all things that are easily obtainable.


My biggest holdout is the barrels/bolts and the upper (which is the receiver on the SCAR).

With an AR if I don't like my current configuration, I can go buy a new barrel and screw it on a upper and be good to go.

SCAR, not so much unless I want to spend $2300 for a new barrel that comes with the rest of a rifle.

I like to "mate" bolts to barrels, SCAR is not a big deal since my $2300 barrel comes with a new bolt, and carrier, and everything else.

If I blow up an AR no big deal, lowers usually survive, order a new upper from whoever and ready to go for $500.

If I blow up my SCAR, luckily I have my spare $2300 spare barreled SCAR to use as a backup.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:25:29 AM EDT
Cost is the only real downside.
That said I still want one.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 2:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2012 2:25:33 PM EDT by StonerAR10]
If you were old like me you could have bought a new MAC 10 NIB for $150 plus the stamp I've got $350 tied up in it. I've had it since 1977. Alos bought a Colt M16A1 carbine NIB for $750 in 79. There are some benefits to being old and having some cool guns. Like so many others I like and want I just cant spend $2900 for a SCAR when I bought a Stoner 63 for $5500.00 in 78. To many guns like the SCAR command stupid prices now and a few years laler they sell for around $1200.00
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:07:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerAR10:
If you were old like me you could have bought a new MAC 10 NIB for $150 plus the stamp I've got $350 tied up in it. I've had it since 1977. Alos bought a Colt M16A1 carbine NIB for $750 in 79. There are some benefits to being old and having some cool guns. Like so many others I like and want I just cant spend $2900 for a SCAR when I bought a Stoner 63 for $5500.00 in 78. To many guns like the SCAR command stupid prices now and a few years laler they sell for around $1200.00



Show off!!!





Valid point though. If I thought that the SCAR would get down to $1200, believe me, I would wait. I dont think that is the road that it is headed down unfortunately. You pay for what you want I suppose and it looks like I am forced to do just that. Im only 25, plenty young enough to be your son. Adoption papers inbound.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:47:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
IMO the 5.56 is more practical for defensive purposes, but to each own.


I agree with this statement. I would love to have a 17, but my 16 does everything I need it to.

Link Posted: 1/3/2012 4:11:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dep4532:

I agree with this statement. I would love to have a 17, but my 16 does everything I need it to.


Oh and rest assured it will. Nice rifle all the SCARS.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 5:56:53 PM EDT
Through about you question for a few day, "Give me one reason I shouldnt own a SCAR"................. and couldn't come up with one
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:05:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rev68:
Through about you question for a few day, "Give me one reason I shouldnt own a SCAR"................. and couldn't come up with one


Why do you think I had to come to you guys for a reason? I couldnt find one either!
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 6:07:09 PM EDT
because you should have 2

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:06:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By SERVED_USMC:
Originally Posted By WI57:
Because there are very few parts available, and few aftermarket add-ons.

And the charging handle hurts.


I personally think that this isnt a huge issue. You have to remember how long it took for the M16/M4 style rifles to gain such a huge civilian fan base before they started to have part galore offered for them. Now, with companies trying to stay one step ahead of the other, a lot of places are trying to get new things out there that the other guy doesnt have. When you only want a small number of things to make the rifle "yours", there is no need to have 1000+ things at your disposal. All of the aftermarket parts I listed are all things that are easily obtainable.


My biggest holdout is the barrels/bolts and the upper (which is the receiver on the SCAR).

With an AR if I don't like my current configuration, I can go buy a new barrel and screw it on a upper and be good to go.

SCAR, not so much unless I want to spend $2300 for a new barrel that comes with the rest of a rifle.

I like to "mate" bolts to barrels, SCAR is not a big deal since my $2300 barrel comes with a new bolt, and carrier, and everything else.

If I blow up an AR no big deal, lowers usually survive, order a new upper from whoever and ready to go for $500.

If I blow up my SCAR, luckily I have my spare $2300 spare barreled SCAR to use as a backup.


I hear ya. But honestly, any proprietary rifle will have parts issues at first. AR's are public domain, so anybody can make parts for them, and almost everybody does. That IS an advantage, but to get it, you have to discount all the SCAR's other design advantages. The bolt itself is very unlikely to fail, barring a material fault.. It's designed MUCH more robustly than the AR bolt. YThe extractor is much beefier too, though there were aapprently a batch of brttle ones in there. You can buy spare extractors, although replacing them is apparently a pain.

Spare barrels can be had for SCARs, though it takes diligence. HDD makes their set-ups and occasional take offs appear for sale on the gun broker. Hopefully FN will continue its recent trend of making more spare parts available, and we'll get bolts and the rumored barrel assembliues.

For me, I just purchased a complete parts kit (a second rifle), since I like the weapon system enough that it is worth it to me. YMMV.

One thing I am NOT worried about it blowing up the gun. I don't shoot reloads or really cheap ammo through it, and I've never, ever blown up a gun in many thousands of rounds through my SCARs or ARs (or any other gun for that matter).
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 7:58:09 AM EDT
i own both the 16 and 17. i have owned many ar's including some real high end ar's and i can say that the scar system is better for me. its cleans way faster and runs very clean. has the least amount of recoil and are very light. you cannot get a lighter piston 308 its just under 8lbs. parts are becoming available and for what its worth they are solid rifles. i have shot the ass out of both my scars and never had a problem.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 8:05:11 AM EDT
All I have is, if your left handed you "might" need to put a piece of tape over the cheek rest button, but I only needed to do it on my 17.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:28:38 PM EDT
The only thing i can think of that im not a fan of my 16s is that the bolt itself is not user serviceable. Tried to clean out some crap after shooting wolf from behind the extractor, the removal of the extractor pin resulted in the loss of a molecule sized c clip that retains that pin. FN said they would take care of it so im not worried. As for wolf, yeah as you might imagine with high volumes of fire i did have a jam, however the MASSIVE extractor on the scar bolt makes clearing jams way easier than an AR15 as I have yet to brake a case rim trying to extract it and the large charging handle lends itself well to a good muscling unlike the ar ch. I love my scar rifle, if you can live with the fact that it still requires a supply chain to keep it functioning over decades however smaller than the AR supply chain it may be then it is in my opinion the best weapons platform yet devised.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:52:06 AM EDT
Yea that pin sucks
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:23:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fjkhoury01:
The only thing i can think of that im not a fan of my 16s is that the bolt itself is not user serviceable. Tried to clean out some crap after shooting wolf from behind the extractor, the removal of the extractor pin resulted in the loss of a molecule sized c clip that retains that pin. FN said they would take care of it so im not worried. As for wolf, yeah as you might imagine with high volumes of fire i did have a jam, however the MASSIVE extractor on the scar bolt makes clearing jams way easier than an AR15 as I have yet to brake a case rim trying to extract it and the large charging handle lends itself well to a good muscling unlike the ar ch. I love my scar rifle, if you can live with the fact that it still requires a supply chain to keep it functioning over decades however smaller than the AR supply chain it may be then it is in my opinion the best weapons platform yet devised.


Yeah, don't disassemble the bolt unless you really have to. 99% of the gunk in the bolt can be removed with compressed air or a spritz of brake cleaner through the firing pin hole (from the rear). I cleaned it once, but to be honest, it didn't really need it. About 1500 rounds later (500+ of that suppressed), I haven't cleaned it again and it's fine.It's a big hinking extractor, so it's not as sensitive to debris as an AR extractor.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:05:57 PM EDT
I was surprised at the lack of garbage in the extractor. I feel the same way as you Strongbow, it'll be a looong time before I attempt to detail clean the extractor.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:47:53 PM EDT
May or may not have put 1k down on one today.

I threw some cash down just to make sure it doesnt go anywhere. It's a black 17, but my guy is gonna try and get me one in FDE. I'll give him a few weeks and if he can't come up with one, black will do just fine. I a chance to meet up with a local arfcommer today (turnandshoot4) and pit some rounds through his. It was an easy choice after that. It is beyond any other 308 I've ever got my hands on.

Everyone's advice was taken into account and I appreciate it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2012 12:52:09 AM EDT
I'm planning on picking up a 16, 17 and FNP45 Tactical (all in FDE of course ) over the next few months. Unfortunately I'm in Afghanistan right now, so I'm sure I'll have the ATF knocking once I get home and pick up all my toys from my FFL

Originally Posted By coldair:
because you should have 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/coldair/FN/IMG_9200.jpg


What optic combo is on the 2nd one? Very nice BTW!
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