Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 10/26/2013 7:05:34 AM EST
I reloaded some 223 mixed brass for the 3rd time. I thought I had culled the Fed brass out of the mix, dumb mistake. Loaded 55grn dog town with 23.5grns. H335 2.23 AOL. Same load I've used many times in my AR and Mini 14. All cases were full length sized and trimmed. Took my AR and 150 rds. to the range and on the 43rd round the bolt jammed and wouldn't eject or move, it was seriously locked up. I was able to determine that the jammed round had indeed fired and it was inside the group at 100yds, ok no danger of a cook-off. Went home, I could not get the lower/upper separated, I poured a little Croils down the barrel and let it sit for a couple of hours, very judiciously tapped on the fired case with a steel cleaning rod until I was able to remove the fired case, no signs of pressure, case length was good. I examined all the fired cases and lo and behold the lone Federal case had no primer in the pocket! I believe this was the round fired prior to the jam.( I load and fire 5 rounds at a time, pick up the brass and put them in a 50 round box). OK having already proved I'm an idiot I decided to call Windham, the rifle is only 2 months old, the gunsmith theorized the primer had fallen out and lodged itself somewhere in the BCG. He recommended I not mess with it and send the rifle back to him for repair. No more Federal brass again! I should have paid attention to you guys. BTW I've been reloading many calibers since 1975, so no excuse other than complacency!

Rant over,
Nick
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:23:52 AM EST
How do you prime? I use a hand primer and if
I ever notice a primer that goes in too easily it
gets deprimed and thrown in the scrap box.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:00:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By jnickn10:
I reloaded some 223 mixed brass for the 3rd time. I thought I had culled the Fed brass out of the mix, dumb mistake. Loaded 55grn dog town with 23.5grns. H335 2.23 AOL. Same load I've used many times in my AR and Mini 14. All cases were full length sized and trimmed. Took my AR and 150 rds. to the range and on the 43rd round the bolt jammed and wouldn't eject or move, it was seriously locked up. I was able to determine that the jammed round had indeed fired and it was inside the group at 100yds, ok no danger of a cook-off. Went home, I could not get the lower/upper separated, I poured a little Croils down the barrel and let it sit for a couple of hours, very judiciously tapped on the fired case with a steel cleaning rod until I was able to remove the fired case, no signs of pressure, case length was good. I examined all the fired cases and lo and behold the lone Federal case had no primer in the pocket! I believe this was the round fired prior to the jam.( I load and fire 5 rounds at a time, pick up the brass and put them in a 50 round box). OK having already proved I'm an idiot I decided to call Windham, the rifle is only 2 months old, the gunsmith theorized the primer had fallen out and lodged itself somewhere in the BCG. He recommended I not mess with it and send the rifle back to him for repair. No more Federal brass again! I should have paid attention to you guys. BTW I've been reloading many calibers since 1975, so no excuse other than complacency!

Rant over,
Nick
View Quote


Since you got the spent case out - is the BCG locked rearward?
I'm wondering why you are sending it in.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:31:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stump70:
How do you prime? I use a hand primer and if
I ever notice a primer that goes in too easily it
gets deprimed and thrown in the scrap box.
View Quote


I can 'feel' it seat too easily on my 550 as well.

OP... Detail strip your rifle... Bet the spent primer is rattling around in your trigger group ATM.... Flip it and shake and it'll likely drop out.
Or... It could be jammed in a lug in your upper, use a light and check visually. Remove with a dental type pick and visually inspect for damage.
Function check... Lube. Carry on shooting.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:44:23 AM EST
I've never had a problem with federal brass.... Maybe you slipped up and made a mistake?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:50:09 AM EST
My Federal .308 brass sucks! The primer pockets loosen up extremely quickly. I avoid it at all costs if I can. If the primer goes in really easily, I color the case head with a sharpy and throw it out once fired.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 10:08:16 AM EST
I got bit by FC .223 brass when I was just starting

to reload, fortunately good people here guided me
through.l

Question: FC is crappy brass due to loose primer

pockets, but what about the FC headstamped brass

made in Israel? Usually sold under Independence brand,

components and brass cups are shipped to Israel, case

formed and cartridge assembled, then shipped back to US.

Anyone load this brass? I've asked about it before,

never got a good answer.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:34:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 1:42:48 PM EST by jnickn10]
Stump,
Lee progressive, I admit some did feel like they went in too easy, live and learn.
Nick
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:37:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 1:44:16 PM EST by jnickn10]
Fundummy,
It is locked rear ward approx. 1 1/2 inches from being in battery, just enough to manually eject the spent case. It won't budge and I'm reluctant to use force. Tried separating the upper from the lower no success there either.
Nick
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:40:07 PM EST
The upper and lower are jammed as well. I don't want to use excessive force to separate them apart, the bolt is not fully rearward and the charging handle won't move the bolt in either direction.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:46:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tillermiller:
I've never had a problem with federal brass.... Maybe you slipped up and made a mistake?
View Quote


Obviously

Nick
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 2:04:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tillermiller:
I've never had a problem with federal brass.... Maybe you slipped up and made a mistake?
View Quote


This. Federal is GTG
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 2:08:50 PM EST
I've been able to separate a jammed upper similar to what you're seeing by pushing out the pivot and takedown pins thus allowing the receivers to be taken apart that way. The upper should be able to slide forward at this point rather than pivoting first as many try to separate them.

Blown primers are a common occurrence in ARs. If that is what is jamming your BCG that is indeed rare however but not unheard of.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 2:33:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 2:35:12 PM EST by fundummy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jnickn10:
Fundummy,
It is locked rear ward approx. 1 1/2 inches from being in battery, just enough to manually eject the spent case. It won't budge and I'm reluctant to use force. Tried separating the upper from the lower no success there either.
Nick
View Quote


Nick, before you send it in, you may want to bounce this off of the Troubleshooting Forum

I'd copy paste, and mention that there may be a spent primer stuck above the BCG.

eta: Welcome to ARFCOM
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 4:47:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jnickn10:
The upper and lower are jammed as well. I don't want to use excessive force to separate them apart, the bolt is not fully rearward and the charging handle won't move the bolt in either direction.
View Quote


Guessing that shotgunning the action will clear the jam... Sounds like the primer is wedged in the bolt carrier / upper or buffer area.
To do such an clearance, close the buttstock completely (assuming it's adjustable). Smack the end of the buttstock on a solid surface as you yank the charging handle back.
Primer cups are thin metal, it'll get clear.
Once you have the action moving, remove the bolt/carrier and buffer/spring... Inspect visually to locate the remains of the primer.

Willing to bet that if you ship it in to Windham, they will do the exact thing to get the bolt loose.

Check YouTube for videos of how to perform the clearance if my explanation doesn't make sense.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 10:16:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OiRogers:


Guessing that shotgunning the action will clear the jam... Sounds like the primer is wedged in the bolt carrier / upper or buffer area.
To do such an clearance, close the buttstock completely (assuming it's adjustable). Smack the end of the buttstock on a solid surface as you yank the charging handle back.
Primer cups are thin metal, it'll get clear.
Once you have the action moving, remove the bolt/carrier and buffer/spring... Inspect visually to locate the remains of the primer.

Willing to bet that if you ship it in to Windham, they will do the exact thing to get the bolt loose.

Check YouTube for videos of how to perform the clearance if my explanation doesn't make sense.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OiRogers:
Originally Posted By jnickn10:
The upper and lower are jammed as well. I don't want to use excessive force to separate them apart, the bolt is not fully rearward and the charging handle won't move the bolt in either direction.


Guessing that shotgunning the action will clear the jam... Sounds like the primer is wedged in the bolt carrier / upper or buffer area.
To do such an clearance, close the buttstock completely (assuming it's adjustable). Smack the end of the buttstock on a solid surface as you yank the charging handle back.
Primer cups are thin metal, it'll get clear.
Once you have the action moving, remove the bolt/carrier and buffer/spring... Inspect visually to locate the remains of the primer.

Willing to bet that if you ship it in to Windham, they will do the exact thing to get the bolt loose.

Check YouTube for videos of how to perform the clearance if my explanation doesn't make sense.


After much handwringing and a restless night's sleep I figured these rifles are made to handle quite a bit of force. This morning I used the offending Fed. case as a Brass drift punch on the locking lug and slowly tapped the bolt forward until it was almost in battery. Then I lightly hammered the forward assist with a plastic hammer until the bolt went into battery. GREAT !!! I was able to disassemble the rifle and while removing the bolt a crushed primer fell out of the BCG. Inspected and lubed the rifle, took it to the range and shot 50 rounds without a problem. Got a fairly nice 3 inch 5 shot group at 160 meters over the hood of my truck with mixed LC cases and 62grn pulled SS109 bullets reloads. I'm smiling again. Thanks for all the advice.
Nick
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 10:58:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 10:59:40 AM EST by RegionRat]
Glad that worked out.
I have found loose primer pockets in a brick of Federal branded XM193 that I bought a while back and now have to treat it like throw away ammo.
That specification included crimping and that was all that holds a percentage of those primers in. Without the crimp, they would have blown loose.

On the other hand, due to how difficult it has been to get brass in general, I am using new LC brass and have found that the batches I obtained from Midway many years ago have checked out fine.

Bottom line is that not everything marked LC on the bottom is made the same. You have to check primer pocket diameter and web thickness to know what you have. All it takes is gage pins and it isn't difficult to see the bad from the good.

Hope that was the last of that for you.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:00:15 PM EST
I use a gage pin on primer pockets. I have noticed that FC 223 without a factory primer crimp is somewhat loose and I don't reload them. Most of the crimped primer FC is GTG with a little work.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 9:29:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlblem:
I use a gage pin on primer pockets. I have noticed that FC 223 without a factory primer crimp is somewhat loose and I don't reload them. Most of the crimped primer FC is GTG with a little work.
View Quote


Just an observation, but until I came across that particular brick, I never had a problem with new or with crimped LC brass. The only brass I have found out of spec was Federal Branded LC XM193, which has a crimp. None of my new, unfired LC brass has failed. I stockpiled this new LC brass when Midway had sales and free shipping, so I am lucky to say I have a load of it and all good.
Top Top