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Posted: 9/24/2005 9:16:30 AM EDT
Given the mission, tactics and terrain, which rifle would you have choosen if you had to fight in the Falklands Islands/Islas Malvinas campaign?
Keep in mind this was a classic Infantryman's fight...while the British forces had planned on covering the tens of miles from their landing beaches to the Argentinian positions by using helicopters for troop transport, most of the copters were lost when the Argies put an Exocet into the Atlantic Conveyor. So, the various British infantry units had to march many miles to engage the enemy; it was up to the individual soldier to carry his weapons, gear and ammo. The terrain was generally featureless and offered little cover to advancing troops, so firefights tended to begin at long range, last for hours as the infantry maneuvered to close with the enemy, then end with close combat. For this reason the British opted for night assaults, but given local conditions the battles often stretched on for hours, well into the daylight. So, given these factors, and if given the choice, would you opt for the FAL, or the M-16? While the FAL was the standard rifle of the British forces, M-16A1s were available and were in fact used by Special Forces units (SAS and SBS). |
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I figure I'd take the best of both worlds. I'd want an FN-FAL carbine. I could have the portability of the lighter rifle, close to the reach the long FNs have the potential for, and complete compatability with the Argy weapon/mags/ammo and that of the common ground pounder on my side of the line.
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The FAL fires the 7.62, but the sights aren't really that great, so maybe the range advantage really isn't there. Though it was quite windy on the islands, not a good place for the 5.56 at longer ranges.
But...some of the British FALs were equipped with the 4X Trilux optical sight, so if you say you wanted one of those, you could have one! I've has one of these scopes, and was not impressed. The FAL carbine is compact, yes, but is still heavy, and so is its ammo, something to consider given the long approach marches. |
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The Argies had them, so, yes. |
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Yep the only thing the Argentines could use to kill Brits. Link Interesting |
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I'm with Lumpy, given the terrain, I'd lean towards the Fusil Automatique Leger.
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m16. From what i remember of that war the weather generally sucked which would eliminate any range advantage from the FAL. also with no helos i would be tempted to ruck in with all the ammo i could carry - advantage m16.
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Thanks for the pic, Lumpy! It really shows the type of terrain encountered on the island, open with little cover.
On the range issue...a lot of the fighting took place in darkness, so the FAL with irons would have its range advantage nullified, unless you are talking about area fire, or that nifty Trilux optic. Surprised no one has mentioned the full-auto fire available with the M-16 when the combat closed into short ranges. |
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This is true. The Argies would have done a lot better if they could have re-supplied (e.g. food) and if the fuses on their (fast mover dropped) bombs had worked reliably. The Brits would have done a lot better if they had had vehicles or helicopters. I bet the Royal Marines hated having to hump their L1A1s the distance they did and would have traded some or all for "Armalites" in a second. |
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+1 |
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I have a book on the subject where the Argies bitch about the fuzing on the bombs. The US had issued a notice about bad fuzes, but wouldn't give the fix to the Argies because of the embargo. The Argies claimed that was BS because they weren't buying a new weapon, and the upgrade was normal customer service. Also, in the book, it mentions Brits armed with Sterlings throwing them away to pick up Argie FALs. I'd take the FAL personally. From the pics I've seen there's a lot of open space. |
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I am sure they would have wanted something light while on the "Great Yomp" across the island. Since the Brits often attacked with a whether advantage (in crappy weather and at night) to close with Argentinian in fixed defensive positions, I really don't think the longer range ability was needed.
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I read the same thing, but the reason given was that the Argie FAL's fired full auto. The L1A1 SLR is a semi only rifle. If I remember correctly some of the SAS forces were using the M-16 because they could. Personally, given the engagement ranges of the battles I'd take an M-16.
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I remember some interviews with British troops who had the SA80, they all said they wanted their FAL's back.
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Good point. Didn't think of that.
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While the FAL is a great rifle (own one), you said the words "march". The FAL weights a freaken ton, I'm sure a BAR or M14 would be lighter.
What about a Garand? If where assuming you will be engaging the enemy at an extreme distance select fire will be pointless, stripper clips should be lighter then magazines. |
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You know that was about as relevent when you said
"Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say the HK91" that it would have ment just as much if you had instead said... 1. Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say id take a baby asprin 2. Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say the ford mustang 3. Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say go for the deoderant ones 4. Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say cambells chunky 5. Even though it's not one of the options, I'd say a neutered civilian version of a military rifle lol I swear if the subject was dog turds, somebody would pick wheaties....we are talking the falkland conflict and ISSUE equipment..not a single HK91 on anybodies TO&E anywhere there |
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Ok, I'll take the FAL then. And some baby aspirin. St. Josephs if you please. |
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I've used them both. I would have to choose the SLR for the greater stand off range.
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Okay I'll confuse the issue a bit...
I've heard from ONE SOURCE that the Argentine 25th Infantry Regiment had a SMALL number of M-14s fitted with AN/PVS-2 night scopes. So there you go, but sorry no G-3s allowed. |
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Maybe the question should be......who would fight for such a barren God-forsaken rock? Did you see a picture of that terrain?
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I own a FAL and several ARs. I'd take the M16 personally. Purely an ergo issue for me. I shoot the M16 platform better and feel more confident with it.
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Well, as a line "Squadie" in the British Infantry you wouldn't have a choice anyway... You are stuck with the SLR....
The Brits used inch pattern FALs, and the Argentinians used metric. The mags are not 100% compatable if I am not mistaken. |
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scoped FAL para would be ideal!
If unavailable - L1A1 with the compact 4x sight |
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This chairbourn ranger would pick he M16 as that is what I am most familiar with. I would not be upset to have a mix of M16'S and FAL'S
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The weather that time of year was pretty bad making for limited observation and the Brits normally attacked at night to preclude the ability of the Argentinians to place withering fire on open terrain if the weather did clear. I really don't think the FAL would do any better for "Long Range" shooting since the rack grade L1A1s weren't all too accurate, slapping on scope on it would do little for inherent accuracy of the system.
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You obviously don't know the British national character... It had a Union Jack sticking it, and the Argies knocked it down. That was enough reason. |
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Gotta respect that |
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Actually, the HK was available, at least to the SAS. I had a cousin in Belfast who did some plain clothes work with SAS backup - he was drooling over the HK rifles (not MP5's) that they were carrying "brilliant piece of kit - power of an SLR, half the size" His words, not mine.
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I just sent an email to a retired British SGTMAJ who fought there, hope he will come online and let us know what he thinks
rk |
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Go visit Mr Google and find out what it was all about before you make stoopid remarks like that... Taffy |
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The British national character - "Fight? OK! - Oh, by the way when +where"
- born there, understand that - not born there, you probably don't get it! |
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