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11/25/2013 8:37:26 PM EDT
Rifle in question is a DSA Imbel.  I'm having two issues I'm hoping to get some ideas on...

1)  Sights.  The front sight bottomed out and the rifle was still off.  I had to move the rear sight up about halfway to get more adjustment and the front sight is still lower than I'd like for a sight picture.  I've read that the inch rear sights are taller, but will one fit on a metric rifle and is the height difference enough to make a difference?

2) Ejection.  This is exhibited with all ammo I've tried.  Most cases eject smartly and fly a reasonable distance.  Others barely puke out of the rifle.  More rarely, some don't clear the rifle and gum it up.  This seems to be at random and has been exhibited with different magazines and occurs during firing one magazine.  Several rounds fly, one pukes out, several more fly, a few puke out, etc...  I've tried cleaning the gas system, checked the gas cylinder, adjusted the gas system several times per instructions, cleaned the return springs/return spring tube and plunger, cleaning the extractor... Thoughts?

Overall I like the rifle, but the second issue especially needs to be fixed
11/25/2013 11:20:11 PM EDT
[#1]
1) Since you're referring to it as Imbel, I'm assuming you have a closed ear gas block. The height of the post on the front sight is denoted by dots. How many dots does yours have? Four dots is the tallest front sight post for the closed ear gas block.

2) What is the barrel length?
11/26/2013 4:49:47 AM EDT
[#2]
is the gas tube on there properly?
11/26/2013 5:43:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Please make sure the gas reg is not turned out too many revolutions just because it says 4 or 5 or whatever it actually could be on 4 or 5 on a complete revolution out or 2 or 3 revolutions. This is our number 1 reason for returns. Close the reg fully then fire the rifle till it will not lock back the last shot then turn the reg 2 or 3 clicks down in numbers. We have a new keeper spring we developed for FAL rail handguard to stop this issue, it will be available soon and will fit all metric models.

If this does not work check to see if the gas tube pin did not fall out or break. Remember these rifles are built with surplus parts and gas tubes can be worn so maybe some small cracks in the gas tube threads developed created a gas leak

On the front sight we make 4 sizes for whatever reason that barrel needs a shorter front sight please send it in and we will gladly replace it.
11/26/2013 8:51:15 AM EDT
[#4]
is the gas tube pin there?
11/26/2013 9:39:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Front sight has two dots.  I found a one dot sight locally.  Gonna try it out later when I feel like sighting the rifle in again.

I took rifle down again and took a closer look at the gas tube.  No cracks or bending, but I noticed that it would rotate quite a bit from side to side. Never occurred to me that maybe it isn't supposed to do that.  I drove the pin out, disassembled it, cleaned up the threads and reassembled it.  I had to play with threading it back in a few times, but the tube is rock solid now, pin went back in without a fuss and the gas port in the tube lines up at the top pretty close to perfectly.  I'm thinking that might have been the culprit.  I won't know for sure until I get back out to the range this weekend for a test.

Thanks for the pointers folks.  Getting excited to shoot this stick again.
11/26/2013 9:55:06 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm not sure a one dot front sight is going to make much difference if you already have a two dot bottomed out and the rear sight moved up.

What is the barrel length?
11/26/2013 10:13:23 AM EDT
[#7]
21" barrel
11/26/2013 10:32:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Are you sure it's an Imbel barrel? Seems abnormal for a 21" barrel to be shooting that low.
11/26/2013 10:40:22 AM EDT
[#9]
This is what I bought:  DSA Imbel Fal, only from a local vendor.  It says SA58 on the side of the receiver.

Edit:  If it helps, the only markings on the barrel are a 0 under the handguard right in front of the receiver and what looks like maybe a 1 on the other side.  There's front sling swivel mount wraps around the barrel right where it looks like the barrel was turned to accept one.
11/26/2013 11:13:55 AM EDT
[#10]
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This is what I bought:  DSA Imbel Fal, only from a local vendor.  It says SA58 on the side of the receiver.

Edit:  If it helps, the only markings on the barrel are a 0 under the handguard right in front of the receiver and what looks like maybe a 1 on the other side.  There's front sling swivel mount wraps around the barrel right where it looks like the barrel was turned to accept one.
View Quote


Looks like they took some parts from Imbel kits and mixed them with US made parts. Most of that is required, of course.

The "O" on the wrench flat is a typical Imbel mark so it does sound like an Imbel barrel. Most of the other parts are US made or have been modified. The lower looks re machined to type I pattern to match the upper.

Something is wrong if it's shooting that low. You should be zeroing it using the 200m notch on the rear sight.

You can try an Israeli rear sight which is taller but they're not easy to find now.
11/26/2013 11:19:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Also, regarding the gas tube, the two small vent holes should be directed downward towards the oval cuts in the hand guards.
11/26/2013 11:26:40 AM EDT
[#12]
I'll find out if I fixed anything by monkeying with the gas tube this Friday or Saturday.  The two holes are where you described, it's just tighter now.

I might be doing something wrong with the sight in procedure on the FAL.  I try to keep all of my .308 rifles about 2" high at 100 yards (don't remember why I started this, but I like consistency).  Maybe that just doesn't work out on a FAL.  Right now the front sight is bottomed and the rear is at 400.  It holds the group where I like it with that setting.  This isn't a go to rifle, more of a range toy and something to round out the battle rifle collection, so I can live with it if I have to.
11/26/2013 11:40:59 AM EDT
[#13]
I have an extra L1A1 rear site if you end up needing it. Just hit me up. Pretty sure I still have the "z" spring for it too. Will watch for range report.
11/26/2013 11:55:25 AM EDT
[#14]
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I'll find out if I fixed anything by monkeying with the gas tube this Friday or Saturday.  The two holes are where you described, it's just tighter now.

I might be doing something wrong with the sight in procedure on the FAL.  I try to keep all of my .308 rifles about 2" high at 100 yards (don't remember why I started this, but I like consistency).  Maybe that just doesn't work out on a FAL.  Right now the front sight is bottomed and the rear is at 400.  It holds the group where I like it with that setting.  This isn't a go to rifle, more of a range toy and something to round out the battle rifle collection, so I can live with it if I have to.
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Personally, I wouldn't just live with that.

Here's a good basic sight in procedure for the FAL:

POI 4cm above POA at 25m gives a 250m BZO (w/ backsight set at 200). This means you're slightly high at 200, which is OK.

If a 21" barrel is still shooting low using that procedure, something is wrong.
11/26/2013 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#15]
What ammo you using?
11/26/2013 2:06:42 PM EDT
[#16]
I've run Radway Green, DAG, MagTech, PMC and assorted steel cased through it with same results for all.

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11/26/2013 2:48:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Might have a bent gas piston. I know one of the DSA pistons I bought was...depending on how it was oriented passing though the receiver it would work fine or get hung up
11/26/2013 4:13:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Really is too bad I can't just go out in the yard and fire a few rounds.  Sure would help with troubleshooting.
11/26/2013 5:23:42 PM EDT
[#19]
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Are you sure it's an Imbel barrel? Seems abnormal for a 21" barrel to be shooting that low.
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I have had the same issue with a Steyr barrel.
11/26/2013 6:29:57 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


I have had the same issue with a Steyr barrel.
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Quoted:
Are you sure it's an Imbel barrel? Seems abnormal for a 21" barrel to be shooting that low.


I have had the same issue with a Steyr barrel.


How did you fix it? Was it on a rifle assembled by DSA?
11/26/2013 6:42:29 PM EDT
[#21]
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How did you fix it? Was it on a rifle assembled by DSA?
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Quoted:
Are you sure it's an Imbel barrel? Seems abnormal for a 21" barrel to be shooting that low.


I have had the same issue with a Steyr barrel.


How did you fix it? Was it on a rifle assembled by DSA?


Yes, it was a DSA STG58, factory assembled with a 21" barrel that came with a 2-Dot FSP.

I changed the FSP to a 1-Dot. That, combined with the rear sight at 200M gives me POI=POA at 25yrds.

I am looking for an Izzy rear aperature to give me some more adjustment so that I can get that 250M BSZ mentioned earlier in the thread.

11/26/2013 7:23:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Yes, it was a DSA STG58, factory assembled with a 21" barrel that came with a 2-Dot FSP.

I changed the FSP to a 1-Dot. That, combined with the rear sight at 200M gives me POI=POA at 25yrds.

I am looking for an Izzy rear aperature to give me some more adjustment so that I can get that 250M BSZ mentioned earlier in the thread.

View Quote


Do you currently have the 1-dot FSP bottomed out?
11/27/2013 7:32:28 AM EDT
[#23]
You will end up with a nub for a front sight if you try to correct it by going to a shorter post. Easier to just replace  the rear with a L1A1 or Izzy.
11/27/2013 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#24]
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You will end up with a nub for a front sight if you try to correct it by going to a shorter post. Easier to just replace  the rear with a L1A1 or Izzy.
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A taller rear sight is one solution but it's still not right. The closed ear gas block is designed to be used with the short rear sight.

It's interesting that there's two people in this thread with DSA built rifles with the same problem.

Did/do you have a similar problem with yours?
11/27/2013 3:50:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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Do you currently have the 1-dot FSP bottomed out?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, it was a DSA STG58, factory assembled with a 21" barrel that came with a 2-Dot FSP.

I changed the FSP to a 1-Dot. That, combined with the rear sight at 200M gives me POI=POA at 25yrds.

I am looking for an Izzy rear aperature to give me some more adjustment so that I can get that 250M BSZ mentioned earlier in the thread.



Do you currently have the 1-dot FSP bottomed out?


Yup.
11/27/2013 5:39:16 PM EDT
[#26]
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Yup.
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Do you currently have the 1-dot FSP bottomed out?


Yup.


Have you contacted DSA about it and if so, what did they say?
11/27/2013 5:46:47 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


A taller rear sight is one solution but it's still not right. The closed ear gas block is designed to be used with the short rear sight.

It's interesting that there's two people in this thread with DSA built rifles with the same problem.

Did/do you have a similar problem with yours?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You will end up with a nub for a front sight if you try to correct it by going to a shorter post. Easier to just replace  the rear with a L1A1 or Izzy.


A taller rear sight is one solution but it's still not right. The closed ear gas block is designed to be used with the short rear sight.

It's interesting that there's two people in this thread with DSA built rifles with the same problem.

Did/do you have a similar problem with yours?


My problem occured when i shortened my barrel to 17 5/8". Seems a pretty common problem with short barrel ones. less so i guess with long barrels.
11/27/2013 6:32:57 PM EDT
[#28]
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Have you contacted DSA about it and if so, what did they say?
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Do you currently have the 1-dot FSP bottomed out?


Yup.


Have you contacted DSA about it and if so, what did they say?


No. Gun is well out of warranty.

Besides, I have to wonder if it is the way I (and possibly the OP shoot) FALs. I have another FAL, also with a 21" Steyr barrel, 2-dot FSP, but not a DSA build (PAC IMBEL). I do not shoot low with my other rifles.

The other FAL has given me the same issue of shooting lower than I would like. I have yet to try a 1-dot FSP on it because it also needs the barrel to be retimed (shoots to the right with the rear sight all the way to the left). When I am shooting, it is off a Caldwell bag with 147gr 7.62x51 (either Winchester or Radway Green).
11/30/2013 2:45:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Well, doesn't look like there will be a range trip this weekend.  Hate having a rifle in the safe that I'm not sure is at 100%.
1/21/2014 8:29:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Finally got the rifle out to the range.  It's cycling fine now.  I did file enough off the gas tube to get another rotation out of the threads, there's less play in it and that seems to have been the golden ticket.  Sights still are what they are, but I have an Israeli rear sight next on the shopping list.
1/27/2014 6:14:29 AM EDT
[#31]
My DSA / Imbel has the same sighting issue.

I'm going to change the front sight post and go from there.

This FAL will have a Trijicon Accupoint on it all the time so a nubby front sight post will be ok
as long as it's useable.

I'd just like to get the rear sight back in the 100M position.
1/27/2014 8:54:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote History
Quoted:
My DSA / Imbel has the same sighting issue.

I'm going to change the front sight post and go from there.

This FAL will have a Trijicon Accupoint on it all the time so a nubby front sight post will be ok
as long as it's useable.

I'd just like to get the rear sight back in the 100M position.
View Quote


Is this a DSA built rifle?

How many dots on the FSP?

Your rear sight has a 100m position?
1/27/2014 9:33:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote History
Quoted:


Is this a DSA built rifle?

How many dots on the FSP?

Your rear sight has a 100m position?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
My DSA / Imbel has the same sighting issue.

I'm going to change the front sight post and go from there.

This FAL will have a Trijicon Accupoint on it all the time so a nubby front sight post will be ok
as long as it's useable.

I'd just like to get the rear sight back in the 100M position.


Is this a DSA built rifle?

How many dots on the FSP?

Your rear sight has a 100m position?


Yes, this is a DSA built FAL.

My front sight has two dots.

I was going to order a one dot front sight from DSA
but looked at their website again this morning and they want
$25 for it, +shipping of course.

I have another spare metric front sight post and I'm going to file it down to fit.

I forget how the close range position is on the metric rear sight is marked, I thought it was 100M
but maybe it's 200M.

I will look when I get home and see what mine says.


Shoot safe,

EMSflyer
1/27/2014 10:03:45 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
Yes, this is a DSA built FAL.

My front sight has two dots.

I was going to order a one dot front sight from DSA
but looked at their website again this morning and they want
$25 for it, +shipping of course.

I have another spare metric front sight post and I'm going to file it down to fit.

I forget how the close range position is on the metric rear sight is marked, I thought it was 100M
but maybe it's 200M.

I will look when I get home and see what mine says.

Shoot safe,

EMSflyer
View Quote


Metric FAL rear sights start at 200m and go up to 600m. They're designed to be zeroed using the 200m notch.

If your 2-dot FSP is already bottomed out, I doubt that filing the post down will have much affect on the POI and you'll just have a little nub for a FSP.
1/27/2014 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote History
Quoted:


Metric FAL rear sights start at 200m and go up to 600m. They're designed to be zeroed using the 200m notch.

If your 2-dot FSP is already bottomed out, I doubt that filing the post down will have much affect on the POI and you'll just have a little nub for a FSP.
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, this is a DSA built FAL.

My front sight has two dots.

I was going to order a one dot front sight from DSA
but looked at their website again this morning and they want
$25 for it, +shipping of course.

I have another spare metric front sight post and I'm going to file it down to fit.

I forget how the close range position is on the metric rear sight is marked, I thought it was 100M
but maybe it's 200M.

I will look when I get home and see what mine says.

Shoot safe,

EMSflyer


Metric FAL rear sights start at 200m and go up to 600m. They're designed to be zeroed using the 200m notch.

If your 2-dot FSP is already bottomed out, I doubt that filing the post down will have much affect on the POI and you'll just have a little nub for a FSP.


Well you are probably right but it's cheap to try since I've already got the extra front sight post.
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