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Posted: 10/13/2012 11:17:45 PM EDT
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I don't know much at all about night vision but have been considering picking something up.
Probably a monocular as I really don't have the funds for a full expensive set up. What generation would I need to actually have something worth owning that works ? What brand are good, and how much should I expect to spend for something. Just looking to get some info to narrow down my search. I've browsed ebay and other sites, but don't know too much about what I'm looking at. Thanks. |
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I have a Night Owl Gen 1 3x monocular. It's fun to play with, but it's just a toy... it requires a significant amount of light to work. Put it this way: If I can barely see something any distance away, it'll bring out a good deal of detail. It cost < $100 at Big Five.
I can't affort the buck$ to buy anything better for now. |
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typically, you need something like Gen2 or Gen3 to get any real effective night vision. Commercial Gen1 doesn't cut it for most purposes. Up close, with extra IR illumination, commercial Gen1 is still useful, but only for observing things. About as far as a small flashlight will go. And humans can see the light as a dim red glow, so it's not very covert either. If size doesn't bother you, have a look at a DIY cascade tube based system. These are Gen1, but use 3 tubes for more gain and are quite useful, but are very large. It costs a few hundred to make, but works quite well. Also, some russian sights have these, but are harder to get of late. Beyond that, you really need a good Gen2 minimum and by the time you've spent that much, if you can go about 50% more, you're in Gen3's price range. Have a look at the new TNVC specials, which are a top-performing current generation of model with all the features including gain control, at a price that's very close to Gen2 monoculars. Well worth it, even though I hear they are selling out as soon as a new batch arrives. I guess that tells you something about them. But overall, what matters most is gain. As a guide, you need a system gain of around 2000x to be useful. The best commercial Gen1's probably don't even come up above 100x and most would be around 30x. Even a cheap Gen2+ might only be around 1000x to 2000x. Modern Gen3's like the AN/PVS-14 can be as high as 7000x. Most manufacturers don't state system gain figures however, and use "tube gain" as a specification they publish ( If they don't say what the gain is, then it's always tube gain ) - As a guide, system gain is usually around 10% of the tube gain value - so if a Gen1 tube has around 300x gain, then the system gain will be around 30x. Well short of the 2000x or so needed for practical use. Regards David
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Quoted:
I have a Night Owl Gen 1 3x monocular. It's fun to play with, but it's just a toy... it requires a significant amount of light to work. Put it this way: If I can barely see something any distance away, it'll bring out a good deal of detail. It cost < $100 at Big Five. I can't affort the buck$ to buy anything better for now. I own one of these I paid $30.00 for it. I would not pay more than $50.00 for it myself. It works when the sun is gowing down but when it get's dark gen 1 is garbage. As cj said gen 2 is as low as I would go. |
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Don't bother with Gen 1 or Digital stuff. Might as well burn the cash.
Here is an outstanding Gen 3 system for reasonable money. http://tnvc.com/shop/tnvpvs-14-gen3-commercial-spec/ Here is a good Gen 2 system if the Gen 3 costs are too steep. http://tnvc.com/shop/d-300-gen2-milspec-night-vision-monocular/ Traditionally TNVC has done Christmas sales on entry stuff each year, so if you can wait a month or so may be a good deal available. You might contact them for details. You can buy used equipment at a discount, but for the kind of money we are talking about it is a crap shoot unless you know what you're looking for/at. If you buy from a reputable company, you get good stuff and someone to stand behind it as well. |
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Here is my recommendation for the "Serious" NV user that doesn't have enough cash yet for what they want, but wants to get anything. Make your own cascade tube based scope. It will cost a few hundred, performance is acceptable under all circumstances and you will still have plenty left for a PVS-14, which you'll likely want even more after you know what good night vision can do. There are several threads in this forum on how to do it - just look up P8079HP or google it. If you really must have something small, or pocket sized, then aim to spend under $100 for Gen1 or under $150 for Digital. Neither are particularly good, but do work to some extent, though neither are covert. More for watching animals out to about 30m ( gen1 ) or 100m ( Digital ) - but compared to Gen2 or Gen3, both are toys. As cheap digital go, I usually recommend the X-gen. It's probably the smallest on the market and has some usable features with good IR illumination - but is very easy to spot when someone is using one. But generally, spend as little as you can, because if you do go route of getting a cheap scope first, then like most who have followed you ( how do you think many of us came to this forum, myself included ) you'll realize that Gen1 aren't good enough for most purposes. Regards
David |
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Quoted: I'm in the same boat. I have around $1,200 to spend and Im torn between a new Armasight Sirius which is gen 2 or save up a little more and look for a used gen 3 unit like a pvs7. Just concerned about tube life if I end up going the used route. I'd say go the PVS-7 though if you're looking on ebay and can get a MX10160 tube, you can go for a micro housing. A good budget solution. Keep in mind that tubes on ebay often have damage - eg, laser/flare damage, high hight damage, recoil damage etc. However if the tube is still working, and you get it cheap, you can still use it to see at night - just use the undamaged area. Not great, but more than functional - :) Regards David |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm in the same boat. I have around $1,200 to spend and Im torn between a new Armasight Sirius which is gen 2 or save up a little more and look for a used gen 3 unit like a pvs7. Just concerned about tube life if I end up going the used route. I'd say go the PVS-7 though if you're looking on ebay and can get a MX10160 tube, you can go for a micro housing. A good budget solution. Keep in mind that tubes on ebay often have damage - eg, laser/flare damage, high hight damage, recoil damage etc. However if the tube is still working, and you get it cheap, you can still use it to see at night - just use the undamaged area. Not great, but more than functional - :) Regards David eBay sells damaged tubes ????  Say it isn't so ! I love some of my cheap eBay tubes. I even love the poor souls that seen bad events. I love them all, even the broken ones. 
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Dude, read, read, and read some more. Then, save, save, save, as much as you can. If you're serious about night vision, get some gen3.
It took me 12 years to finally get what I wanted, now I've got gen3, a thermal imager, IR lasers galore, and another gen3 unit inbound so I can play with a friend. But before all that, I got an education, a job, and a house. but, if you plan on doing some serious night operations, get the best you can afford. I wished it didn't cost like several k to get the best setup, but unfortunately it does. Good luck brother, but be careful, it's like hitting the perverbial crack pipe for me....I just can't put it down! |
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I got a m845 mk4 weapon sight and an ir torch recently. My first NV purchases. Overall I'm happy with the money spent. It is awkward having to point at whatever I want to see, but within 400yd or so I can see anything I need to in starlight.
A head rig is a great supplement, but IMO the weapon mounted optic and illumination is better if you're only going to have one or the other (for the money anyways). I make the assumption that you are hunting. |
| Have to disagree completely with the previous poster. If you are hunting, go with a head mount monocular + IR laser on the gun. It is not safe to point the rifle everywhere you want to see in the dark - certainly not for anyone who is hunting with or around you. It is possible to use a twist mount on the gun if you want to move it behind a night vision compatible red dot after you have identified the target (and what's not a target). With the price and availability of good class 1 IR lasers, it really isn't necessary. |
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Quoted:
Have to disagree completely with the previous poster. If you are hunting, go with a head mount monocular + IR laser on the gun. It is not safe to point the rifle everywhere you want to see in the dark - certainly not for anyone who is hunting with or around you. It is possible to use a twist mount on the gun if you want to move it behind a night vision compatible red dot after you have identified the target (and what's not a target). With the price and availability of good class 1 IR lasers, it really isn't necessary. +1 |
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