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Posted: 11/9/2012 4:58:18 PM EST
What is your thoughts on what may happen in the near future with the 50 caliber rifles now? Do you think they will try and make you register them or something of the such?
Link Posted: 11/9/2012 5:13:14 PM EST
They will try to gain as much ground as possible. So nothing is out of the question.
Link Posted: 11/10/2012 4:33:06 PM EST
Since there are fewer .50 BMG owners & shooters - they represent "low hanging fruit" to go after.

MY thought is that if there's a renewed push for an "assault weapon" ban that the "pro-gun side" might offer up a ban on .50 BMG's as a compromise to a ban on other black guns. I think that the NRA has wised up to the idea that shooters will demand to keep their AR's - but would sacrifice the .50's since we aren't a very large segment of the shooting population.

The nice thing about owning a .50 BMG upper for an AR is that it isn't a gun.
Link Posted: 11/10/2012 8:17:06 PM EST
After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107
Link Posted: 11/10/2012 8:18:49 PM EST
Hours After Reelection, Obama Green Lights UN Gun Grab

Hours After Reelection, Obama Green Lights UN Gun Grab

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/13586-hours-after-re-election-obama-green-lights-un-gun-grab

A story ran on the Oklahoma City NBC news affiliate on Wednesday reporting that “sporting goods stores in the Sooner state are seeing a spike in gun sales following President Barack Obama's re-election.”

Similar reports ran nationwide after the president was elected the first time in 2008.

While many accused those making a run on gun stores of reacting rashly, there may be some wisdom in this latest sales spike.

Reuters reports that within hours of his securing his reelection, President Obama ordered the U.S. United Nations delegation to vote in favor of a UN proposal to fast track an international gun control treaty.

Immediately the word went out that the United States was going to play ball (after having scuttled the last round of talks on the Arms Trade Treaty in July), and a new round of negotiations on the treaty was scheduled for March 18-28 at the UN headquarters in New York City.

A press release was sent out early Wednesday morning from the United Nations General Assembly’s First Committee proclaiming the good news of President Obama’s go-ahead for the gun grab and setting the agenda for the next gun control conference:

Also kindling discussion among delegations was a draft resolution aimed at building on the progress made towards the adoption of a strong, balanced and effective arms trade treaty. That text would decide to convene the “Final United Nations Conference” for the creation of such a treaty in March 2013.

Also by that resolution, the draft text of the treaty submitted by the Conference’s president on 26 July would be the basis for future work, without prejudice to the right of delegations to put forward additional proposals on that text. The Committee approved the resolution as a whole by a recorded vote of 157 in favour to none against, with 18 abstentions.

No member, not even the United States, opposed the convening of a “Final United Nations Conference” for the establishment of a treaty imposing worldwide gun control regulations.

In July, 51 senators sent a letter to President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton encouraging them to “not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure — if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference — that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense.”

The failure to pass an acceptable version of the treaty in July is in the president’s rearview mirror, however, as Reuters reports that “adoption of a strong, balanced and effective Arms Trade Treaty” could be imminent.

Reuters quotes Brian Wood of Amnesty International:

After today's resounding vote, if the larger arms trading countries show real political will in the negotiations, we're only months away from securing a new global deal that has the potential to stop weapons reaching those who seriously abuse human rights.

The definition of an “abuse” of “human rights” will be left up to a coterie of internationalist bureaucrats who will be neither accountable to nor elected by citizens of the United States.

With good reason, then, gun rights advocates oppose approval of this treaty.

After all, it does seem more than a little incongruous that a nation that places such a high value on gun ownership that it enshrined it in its Bill of Rights participates in an organization that opposes gun ownership so staunchly that it has an Office for Disarmament Affairs. An office, by the way, that the U.S. Deputy Director, Office of Weapons Removal and Abatement, Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, Steven Costner, proudly announced would be moving from Geneva to New York City.

Lest anyone believe the U.S. delegation official’s promise to Reuters that “we will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms,” consider the fact that a report issued after the conclusion of the last Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) conference in July listed the goal of the agreement to be UN control of the “manufacture, control, trafficking, circulation, brokering and trade, as well as tracing, finance, collection and destruction of small arms and light weapons.”

That is a very comprehensive attack on “all aspects” of gun trade and ownership. Notably, the phrase “in all aspects” occurs 38 times in the draft of the ATT.

Particulars of the proposed treaty are set out on the UN Office for Disarmament Affairs website. Information presented there reveals that the international government-in-waiting wants to start by taking away weapons from “insurgents, armed gang members, pirates, and terrorists.”

Again, key definitions are left out of the document and others inexplicably and inexcusably ill-defined. Within the penumbras of these cleverly crafted provisions are found lurking the tools of tyranny. Wrenches that one day could force anyone branded as an enemy into a predetermined “terrorist” slot.

A question that must be considered is what the UN will consider “adequate laws.” Will the globalists at the UN consider the Second Amendment’s guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms without infringement to be a sufficient control on gun ownership?

The effort at eradication of private gun ownership is more insidious than it appears, however. On page 25 of the 1997 UN Secretary General’s Report on Criminal Justice Reform and Strengthening Legal Institutions Measure to Regulate Firearms (of which the United States was a signatory) a part of the regulations that we agreed to impose is a psychological test before one is allowed to purchase ammunition.

Apparently, the UN recognizes that without ammunition a gun is no more than a club, so in order to effectively disarm a population, the UN does not need to seize all the weapons; it merely has to prevent purchase of ammunition.

How does the ATT (and the Programme of Action that undergirds it) propose to enforce this anti-gun agenda?

Section III, Paragraphs 7 and 8 of the Programme of Action mandate that if a member state cannot get rid of privately-owned small arms legislatively, then the control of “customs, police, intelligence, and arms control” will be placed under the power of a board of UN bureaucrats operating out of the UN Office for Disarmament Affairs.

This provision includes the deployment of UN peacekeeping forces in a member state to seize and destroy “weapons stockpiles.”

Again, no definition of stockpile, but by that time it will be too late to make that argument.

In order to assist these blue-helmets and their disarmament overlords in their search and seizure of this ammunition, Section III, Paragraph 10 mandates that member states develop technology to improve the UN’s ability to detect stockpiles of ammo and arms.

This brings to mind the imminent deployment by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) of portable invisible lasers developed by Genia Laboratories (a company created by CIA offshoot In-Q-Tel) that can detect even trace amounts of gun powder from over 50 yards away. The laser reportedly can penetrate walls, glass, and metal. DHS is scheduled to take possession of the devices later this month, according to testimony presented on Capitol Hill late last year.

History is instructive on this point as one recalls that the “shot heard ‘round the world” on Lexington Green was fired because King George sent British troops to seize the ammunition stockpile stored outside of Lexington.

A late night call from newly reelected President Obama to the UN has awakened Americans’ opposition to this latest attempt to abrogate the rights protected by the Second Amendment. It was a different late night call that roused sleepy colonists in defense of their right to bear arms, as well. This time, however, it is not the British who are coming for our guns and ammunition, but it is the United Nations and representatives of our own federal government.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 9:00:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 10:22:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Bring it!!! I would have no problems shooting foreign troops on American soil trying to take our firearms.


When you consider how many guns have been sold in just the past 4 years alone, I sort of doubt that all those people spent big money just so they could turn those guns in... That would tend to indicate that you are not alone in your sentiment to resist foreign troops sent here to seize our firearms.

Link Posted: 11/11/2012 10:57:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/11/2012 12:15:57 PM EST by 50_Shooter]
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 1:45:45 PM EST
Foreign troops?


Come on now.If they pass LEGISLATION,it will be American LAW ENFORCEMENT that will ,of course, enforce the law.The old "Just doing my job-don't like it write your elected officials" will be the new catch phrase.

Better start thinking about what you intend to do when they do pass anti gun legislation (keep it to yourself),because sooner or later it is coming.

How many will risk becoming a felon if they make unregistered possession of "magazine/"assault" weapon/.50BMG/etc a felony?Besides internet postings to track owners,there is always the reward way as well-trust everyone that knows you have weapons to not rat you out for a 100.00 Wal Mart gift card??

Bad times are coming,but it sure as hell wont be foreign troops we need to worry about.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 4:10:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 6:47:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
..


And people here wonder why gun owners get the bad rep of being kooks
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 6:50:50 PM EST
I am sure most of us will just hand our stuff over much like the British citizens did. Just to point out how stupid things can get they have now outlawed pointed knives.
Link Posted: 11/11/2012 8:09:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 5:55:18 AM EST
Good thing i already have my M82CQ and lots of ammo to go with it :)
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 7:06:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.



Once you are branded a terrorist/Enemy of the State,they will shoot you down in a heartbeat-and with the approval of the majority.

The cops will follow orders and confiscate illegal weapons as they have for years.Resist with force and you will be met with overwhelming force.Getting a decent body count will be your only shot.The media and most people will be against you-especially if it hits the media.

Nothing happened in 94 when the first ban started (yeah,it had an expiration,but there was no guarantee that it would),nothing happened over import bans or sporting clauses,and nothing has happened at any of the state levels (short of a few isolated incidents).

They wont need foriegn troops for the same reason they don't need them for all the gun laws already on the books-how many people don't violate NFA?It's not because full autos and other goodies aren't hard to get/make,but the penalties outweigh the pros.Make the .50 have to be registered or it's a felony-how many here would risk that??

Link Posted: 11/12/2012 7:08:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By sasha2012:
Good thing i already have my M82CQ and lots of ammo to go with it :)



Welcome to the board!!

Lets hope you can hang on to it easily.

Link Posted: 11/12/2012 7:44:40 AM EST
It wouldn't surprise me regarding the legislation, but what has surprised me is that the ATF hasn't used their usual regulatory abuses to restrict it.

Just reverse their position (cause they never do that, right?) regarding using the measurement of the diameter of the bullet before firing instead of after, declare the .510" projectile over the half inch limit and having "no sporting purpose" (much like how IPSC and others aren't actual sports according to them) and voila, DD tax stamp required for every .50BMG rifle out there.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 3:36:54 PM EST
Assuming that they are going to let you register them. Would they now be nfa regulated and go up in value like other nfa items. So you would see pre2014 50cals
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:43:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Bring it!!! I would have no problems shooting foreign troops on American soil trying to take our firearms.

Fuck Obama, Muslim lovin' anti American piece of shit. Maybe we can ship him off to Libya.


"They" love it when you talk like that. Do us a favor, stay off our side....
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:08:50 PM EST
Yea but most of us ignored the 94 and not a damn thing happened

Only way any new law will be affective is to first require registration, then enact the new AWB

And then once you get a list, later you go house to house and take them all.

Free

Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.



Once you are branded a terrorist/Enemy of the State,they will shoot you down in a heartbeat-and with the approval of the majority.

The cops will follow orders and confiscate illegal weapons as they have for years.Resist with force and you will be met with overwhelming force.Getting a decent body count will be your only shot.The media and most people will be against you-especially if it hits the media.

Nothing happened in 94 when the first ban started (yeah,it had an expiration,but there was no guarantee that it would),nothing happened over import bans or sporting clauses,and nothing has happened at any of the state levels (short of a few isolated incidents).

They wont need foriegn troops for the same reason they don't need them for all the gun laws already on the books-how many people don't violate NFA?It's not because full autos and other goodies aren't hard to get/make,but the penalties outweigh the pros.Make the .50 have to be registered or it's a felony-how many here would risk that??



Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:25:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Yea but most of us ignored the 94 and not a damn thing happened

Only way any new law will be affective is to first require registration, then enact the new AWB

And then once you get a list, later you go house to house and take them all.

Free

Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.



Once you are branded a terrorist/Enemy of the State,they will shoot you down in a heartbeat-and with the approval of the majority.

The cops will follow orders and confiscate illegal weapons as they have for years.Resist with force and you will be met with overwhelming force.Getting a decent body count will be your only shot.The media and most people will be against you-especially if it hits the media.

Nothing happened in 94 when the first ban started (yeah,it had an expiration,but there was no guarantee that it would),nothing happened over import bans or sporting clauses,and nothing has happened at any of the state levels (short of a few isolated incidents).

They wont need foriegn troops for the same reason they don't need them for all the gun laws already on the books-how many people don't violate NFA?It's not because full autos and other goodies aren't hard to get/make,but the penalties outweigh the pros.Make the .50 have to be registered or it's a felony-how many here would risk that??





True to a point. Yea your personal stuff may have never been checked but trying to buy a new gun that had a colaspable stock or even just the stock and high cap mags was like a needle in a very expensive hay bail.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:44:27 AM EST
We have become the United States of Ridiculousness. How about these f'n jokers focus on the important issues like how to get America out of the shit storm we are headed towards. Instead, they are focusing on bans of guns that aren't even used in crimes. Banning any type of gun will do nothing but lose more American jobs in manufacturing, and increase the cost of military weapons since the manufacturers will lose the lucritive consumer market. Politicians need to get off their high horse and do the fucking job they were put in office for. I am sick of seeing BS like this where they are wasting time trying to solve issues that aren't even a problem. This is freakin' ridiculous!
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 6:05:53 PM EST
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 11:58:45 AM EST
This is why smart people bought stripped Bushmaster lowers and put whatever upper or stock you wanted on it.

I did have two Pre ban lowers for road trips BTW.

Had lots of pre ban mags, could get them at local surplus store for $6-10

Free



Originally Posted By ARsR4ME:
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Yea but most of us ignored the 94 and not a damn thing happened

Only way any new law will be affective is to first require registration, then enact the new AWB

And then once you get a list, later you go house to house and take them all.

Free

Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.



Once you are branded a terrorist/Enemy of the State,they will shoot you down in a heartbeat-and with the approval of the majority.

The cops will follow orders and confiscate illegal weapons as they have for years.Resist with force and you will be met with overwhelming force.Getting a decent body count will be your only shot.The media and most people will be against you-especially if it hits the media.

Nothing happened in 94 when the first ban started (yeah,it had an expiration,but there was no guarantee that it would),nothing happened over import bans or sporting clauses,and nothing has happened at any of the state levels (short of a few isolated incidents).

They wont need foriegn troops for the same reason they don't need them for all the gun laws already on the books-how many people don't violate NFA?It's not because full autos and other goodies aren't hard to get/make,but the penalties outweigh the pros.Make the .50 have to be registered or it's a felony-how many here would risk that??





True to a point. Yea your personal stuff may have never been checked but trying to buy a new gun that had a colaspable stock or even just the stock and high cap mags was like a needle in a very expensive hay bail.


Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:45:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
This is why smart people bought stripped Bushmaster lowers and put whatever upper or stock you wanted on it.

I did have two Pre ban lowers for road trips BTW.

Had lots of pre ban mags, could get them at local surplus store for $6-10

Free


Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:


That's fine for today,but what about a few years from now?What about the kid in 5th grade that hasn't gotten into guns yet?

They will win by attrition in the long run.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:48:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto



Back then was different.

Today?If the Chinese invaded and promised to up the EBT card balances,there would be more people lining the streets waving Chinese flags than hiding in the grass with rifles.

Thinking the majority of Americans would rise up against an out of control Federal government is a fantasy.We have shown over and over again that we will allow the gov to do as they wish with very few repurcussions-hell,we keep sending the same ones back over and over.


This has always been a good read:


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/snyder8.html
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:33:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.


You need to provide citation for that.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:44:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Glynn628:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.


You need to provide citation for that.


He's referring to the survey conducted back in 1994 at Twentynine Palms. Out of 300 marines sampled approximately 75 said they agreed or strongly agreed to the following statement:

"The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government."
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:49:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Loremsk:
Originally Posted By Glynn628:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Don't laugh, foreign troops won't have issues about shooting Americans but a lot of cops will. The question was put to U.S. troops before about shooting Americans if ordered to take their firearms. I think 20-30% said they would if ordered but the rest said no, I think cops for the most part wouldn't as they don't want to get shot disarming people that don't want to give up their firearms.


You need to provide citation for that.


He's referring to the survey conducted back in 1994 at Twentynine Palms. Out of 300 marines sampled approximately 75 said they agreed or strongly agreed to the following statement:

"The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty (30) day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government."


Thank you. I would like to see what a current survey would look like.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 12:08:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto


I agree carguym4, just 'popped into my head. Purchase a 50 upper at a gun show, stripped lower FTF, That would be the prudent thing to do, however, if there were a ban, would not be able to shoot it; And, I harbor no Rambo or Wolverines Fantasies.
BTW, I see they have produced a remake of that movie, not excited about it, too old.
Thanks for your insight.
Back then was different.

Today?If the Chinese invaded and promised to up the EBT card balances,there would be more people lining the streets waving Chinese flags than hiding in the grass with rifles.

Thinking the majority of Americans would rise up against an out of control Federal government is a fantasy.We have shown over and over again that we will allow the gov to do as they wish with very few repurcussions-hell,we keep sending the same ones back over and over.


This has always been a good read:


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/snyder8.html


Link Posted: 11/20/2012 12:52:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto


I agree carguym4, just 'popped into my head. Purchase a 50 upper at a gun show, stripped lower FTF, That would be the prudent thing to do, however, if there were a ban, would not be able to shoot it; And, I harbor no Rambo or Wolverines Fantasies.
BTW, I see they have produced a remake of that movie, not excited about it, too old.
Thanks for your insight.



I have no Rambo or Wolverines fantasy either,but,I'm to the point (actually past) that I am sick and tired of having freedoms trashed and being taxed to death.

We are basically not much more than slaves to the government as it is.Sooner or later a line must be drawn.I have seen things get progressively worse in my lifetime,and see no turnaround in sight.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:05:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto


How many times are you geniuses going to repeat that bogus quote?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 4:50:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By hdhogman:
"...We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto


How many times are you geniuses going to repeat that bogus quote?



You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass. It has been declared this attribution is "unsubstantiated and almost certainly bogus, even though it has been repeated thousands of times in various Internet postings. There is no record of the commander in chief of Japan’s wartime fleet ever saying it.", according to Brooks Jackson in "Misquoting Yamamoto" at Factcheck.org (11 May 2009)
Thanks for the compliment.
Link Posted: 12/22/2012 6:38:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2012 8:28:51 AM EST by MongoCaver]

...
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 1:48:56 PM EST
Just get a 416 barrel and save the 50BMG barrel for when the SHTF.

If necessary fix the mag so you can keep it legal.

Now if the come to take it....all bets are off.

Free



Free


Originally Posted By carguym14:
Originally Posted By sasha2012:
Good thing i already have my M82CQ and lots of ammo to go with it :)



Welcome to the board!!

Lets hope you can hang on to it easily.



Link Posted: 12/27/2012 1:50:25 PM EST
yep more ammo for the anti gunners

Free


Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
Bring it!!! I would have no problems shooting foreign troops on American soil trying to take our firearms.

Fuck Obama, Muslim lovin' anti American piece of shit. Maybe we can ship him off to Libya.


"They" love it when you talk like that. Do us a favor, stay off our side....


Link Posted: 12/27/2012 1:58:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 4:47:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By 50_Shooter:
YAWN...

No matter what you say or do they will use it against you, so man up and act like a gun owner. Their mission is to ban ALL guns, if you think putting daisies in the muzzle of your rifles will help, good luck.



Yep,reason and logic will not work with these people.Their mindset is total control and they will push for that no matter what.

Interesting times...........

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