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Posted: 12/15/2001 7:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/23/2004 8:47:16 PM EDT by MouseBoy]
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 8:33:48 AM EDT
Are these the M14s with the selector switch welded in the Semi position (Vietnam era, sold by CMP, IIRC), or another type of demilled M14?

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 8:46:12 AM EDT
Selector is welded with welded rod in place of connector rod. They are being confiscated because they were "improperly demiled"
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 9:17:57 AM EDT
Aren't the alphabet boys busy chasing down terrorists? Or are red-blooded Americans with guns now considered terrorist.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 11:20:42 AM EDT
Rumor control says they came from Israel and were cut into two pieces with a saw, the pieces wired together and stored in a 55 gallon drum in used motor oil. Proper demil procedures apparently require them to be torch cut into three pieces. Other rumors say that the selector stud was moved forward so that the connector couldn't trip the sear for full auto and it was considered readily convertable back to full auto.

I personally asked one of the Tech Branch guys at the Shot Show about the M14 rewelds and he indicated that if it isn't torch cut into three pieces and the selector stud removed, and rebuild would be illegal.

As for the white male discrimination non-issue, most of these receivers were probably purchased by white males. The receivers are the subject of the enforcement effort. They are being confiscated. As far as I know, nobody who turns over their post-86 machineguns (the MKS M14s) is being charged.

Anyone holding one of these receivers built up into a complete rifle should strip it of all parts including the barrel and give the BATF a stripped receiver. MK-Specialties should then give them one of the new forged receivers with a credit for the difference in price, and if the original receiver was sold as a complete rifle, install all the old parts on them free of charge.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 11:35:34 AM EDT
"I personally asked one of the Tech Branch guys at the Shot Show about the M14 rewelds and he indicated that if it isn't torch cut into three pieces and the selector stud removed, and rebuild would be illegal."

Not exactly. The BATF definition of demilled is their opinion, not law or precedence. That will be decided through the lawsuit MKS has filed against the ATF using NRA lawyers.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 12:03:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2001 9:08:01 AM EDT by Noname]
A few years ago I was talking to Ed Owen in the Tech Branch and brought up the subject of the "demilled" M14 receivers. I was seeing the cut in half receivers at Gun Shows and Hahn Machine was selling rewelded receivers. He told me that there was an active investigation going on at that time due to questionable demilling. He also said they were going to declare them contraband because of the demilling method. This was around 1996 or 1998 IIRC.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 12:20:14 PM EDT
That's a lot of time and money invested to take semi-auto rifles that can't possibly be converted back into REAL machineguns away from law-abiding citizens, who probably almost all purchased said rifles from FFL dealers and therefore went through a background check to prove they're not felons. Very good use of our federal tax dollar.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 2:14:23 PM EDT
From what I've been reading on jouster this is bullshit. I don't own a MKS reweld, so I don't care one way or the other, but until somebody comes out with some serious evidence that the BATF really is confiscating MKS receivers (like information from the BATF) I'm not going to cry wolf.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 2:40:39 PM EDT
Let me get this straight, demilling with a torch is OK, demilling with a saw is not? Did I read this right? Is there a reason for this?

If Lewis Carroll were alive today, his book would be titled "The Adventures of Alice in BATF Land"
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 4:04:49 PM EDT

Read more over on jouster. A fellow over there says he had his receiver confiscated yesterday. Sucks to be him. I wonder if anybody will give the "I sold it at a gun show" line?

Given the update on jouster it appears as though MKS is at fault for not having absolute BATF permission to reweld these receivers (as in a letter stating that it is not deemed a machine gun). Although I hate to side with the gummint, I have to say it looks like MKS fucked up and it's not BATF Gestapo crap.

We need to contact our elected officials and demand new legislation that assures honest, gun owner protection against this latest, and future crusades.

The last thing we need is more legislation. This situation appears to me to be a company screwing the gun-owning public by not fully disclosing the fact that their receivers hadn't received BATF approval. Like it or not, the BATF does need to make sure that firearms marketed in this country make legal snuff. This whole shitty situation just provides further proof that you really need to be sure of what you are buying. If you ever buy demilled gummint stuff, make God-damned sure that shit meets the approval of our great protectors unless you want to be a martyr.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 5:33:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By marvl:
Let me get this straight, demilling with a torch is OK, demilling with a saw is not? Did I read this right? Is there a reason for this?

Probably in their procedures.

Personally, I hope they do hold to the letter of the law on things they pursue. The last thing I'd want from them is for them to start getting creative. Last time they tried that, they set 80 people on fire.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:50:06 PM EDT
Why are the BATF only confiscating these receivers in Massachusetts? If they're illegal per the BATF (federal level), then they're illegal in the other 49 states as well.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 7:54:10 PM EDT
Either it fires more than one shot per pull of the trigger or it doesn't. Why are they screwing with these guys if the guns don't/can't fire full auto?
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 7:58:06 PM EDT
Put the blame on vague laws passed by congress, not BATF. Most agents are good people, just doing their job.

This whole mess started when some moron took a Dremel to the MKS identification on receivers and started selling them as genuine M14 receivers.
Link Posted: 12/15/2001 8:12:50 PM EDT
One cut with a saw does far less damage to the receiver and removes less metal than two torch cuts.
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 5:49:34 AM EDT
These receivers were demilled before the now required 3 piece torch rule we have now.

Link Posted: 12/16/2001 7:23:03 AM EDT
Make Mine Springfield Armory
...no rewelds for me!
Link Posted: 12/16/2001 1:26:28 PM EDT
Here's the direct quote from the MKS letter sent with recvr's and complete rifles...
Page 1 paragraph 3;
" The MKS receivers are produced from demilled M-14 pieces destroyed in accordance with the ATF regulation which states tht a reciever shall be demilled by TORCH cutting into 3 sections. Prior to assembling these sections, the lower ear for the auto sear is removed to render the use of full auto parts non-functional. The sections are then carefully welded together and the complete receiver is than machined back to military specifications. "

I have seen 8 MKS M-14A's and none was torch cut as they say in there own letter , M Kelly told me on the phone they were saw cut in half in Isreal and imported before the ATF re-interprited the demill requirments. So why didn't they say that in the letter ?????
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 7:59:45 PM EDT
If MKS is not put out of business they need to make it right to all of the people they have screwed over. Nobody was a felon before they did business with this guy, he needs to get out of the business of make it right. AND be a little more forthcoming with his EX-customers.
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