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Posted: 4/22/2017 6:50:02 AM EDT
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I am pulling apart some 1957 FN Belgian 30-06 that has bad primers, shooting this stuff at the range was like shooting a flintlock musket due to the hangfires. I am loading the pulled bullets and powder into neck sized cases. The cases are a mix of Greek HXP and TW marked US cases that have been once fired through my 1903A3. The issue i'm having is, the bullets are so loose in the case once loaded I can spin them around with my fingers.
I'm using the Lee crimp that came with the die set and even with the maximum amount of crimp the bullets can still spin around. I can't pull them out but there is enough play I can spin the bullet. I am seating the bullets to the same depth the FN rounds have. I loaded 20 cartridges and in 10 of the rounds the bullet has this play in it. The other 10 are fine, no play at all. Anyone have any insight into this or any suggestions? |
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You don't have any neck tension for some reason. No amount of crimp is going to help.
Either you necks are oversize or your bullets are undersize. I try to explain the crimp thing on here time and time again but often people either don't want to understand or refuse to. You simply can not squeeze brass down onto a bullet and expect it to hold it. The brass will always spring back. Even when you crimp into a groove the brass springs back but you displaced enough of it into the groove to prevent movement beyond the limits of the groove width. You need to figure out why you don't have any neck tension. Motor |
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That depends on how you are crimping. If you are roll crimping the case length has a lot to do with how much crimp you get.
If you are using a Lee FCD with collet as long as you are still within the footprint of the collet it would make much less difference. The key to consistent crimping with roll crimp is consistent case length. It doesn't matter if they are long or short (as long as they are in spec) because you adjust the die for how much crimp you want. The FCD collect crimp has no adjustment regarding case length. It applies the crimp in the exact same vertical location every time the adjustment you can make is how tight the collet closes. Motor |
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Sorry folks, I was at the race at Bristol all day yesterday. But to answer a few questions, I checked all cases using my case length gauge and trimmed the few cases that were too long.
Motor1, sorry you are correct, it is neck tension that i'm not getting. I didn't know how to phrase my question. I have just now ventured into reloading rifle cartridges. I have been reloading 9mm, 40 S&W, 380 for a year or so now but just recently ventured into reloading 30-06 and .223. Another poster mentioned undersized bullets, I guess this could be a culprit but I didn't check bullet diameter as they are all coming from pulled down Belgian military cartridges. FN ammo seems to have a good reputation. I pulled the bullets using a Hornady cam lock bullet puller. It uses a collet to squeeze onto the bullet to pull it off the brass. Could this have enough force to make a bullet a bit undersized? I believe the die i'm using for crimping is the Lee FCD, it is the one that came with the die set. No I didn't full length size the cases are they have all been once fired through this exact rifle before and from my reading all I would need to do at that point is neck size since i'm running these through the exact same bolt action rifle. The neck sizing die i'm using is the Lee collet neck sizing die. |
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Quoted:
Sorry folks, I was at the race at Bristol all day yesterday. But to answer a few questions, I checked all cases using my case length gauge and trimmed the few cases that were too long. Motor1, sorry you are correct, it is neck tension that i'm not getting. I didn't know how to phrase my question. I have just now ventured into reloading rifle cartridges. I have been reloading 9mm, 40 S&W, 380 for a year or so now but just recently ventured into reloading 30-06 and .223. Another poster mentioned undersized bullets, I guess this could be a culprit but I didn't check bullet diameter as they are all coming from pulled down Belgian military cartridges. FN ammo seems to have a good reputation. I pulled the bullets using a Hornady cam lock bullet puller. It uses a collet to squeeze onto the bullet to pull it off the brass. Could this have enough force to make a bullet a bit undersized? I believe the die i'm using for crimping is the Lee FCD, it is the one that came with the die set. No I didn't full length size the cases are they have all been once fired through this exact rifle before and from my reading all I would need to do at that point is neck size since i'm running these through the exact same bolt action rifle. The neck sizing die i'm using is the Lee collet neck sizing die. vs one pulled with a kinetic bullet puller |
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The only way you are going to figure out why you don't have neck tension is to do some measuring.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. The easiest thing to measure is the bullet diameter. If your bullets are at least .307" your problem is the neck size. Another thing you can do is simply see how a factory .308" bullet fits. If it also has weak neck tension you'll know for sure that it's a neck sizing issue. It could be that you need a smaller mandrel for your Lee collet die. You can also go ahead and run one of your casings in and out of a standard full length sizing die. You don't even have to go "full length" just go until you have about the thickness of a dime between the shell holder and the die. Doing this will size the neck without moving your shoulder any. If after doing this the neck tension is ok then you'll know for sure that it's your collet neck that's causing your problem. If you are able to measure accurately your bullets should be no smaller than .307" Your inside neck diameter should be .305 to .306 It's been my experience using regular dies full length or neck only that you typically have .002 to .003" fit usually closer to .003" for 30 caliber rifles. Motor |
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I really like the design of the lee collet system, but the problem that I have found with so many lee dies, is the execution of the machining that is less than prefect instead.
Ideally, if the taper edge on the outside of the finger collect and the taper edge on the adjuster are polished mate up perfectly, as well the inner ID channel as well, it does allow for an clean adjustment of how much the neck of the case will be resized. The problem, is you pull the die apart, the machining of the parts is less than perfect, ending up with less than perfect neck resizing instead. As for a primer of that need to be cleaned up, Start with this, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?273247-Issue-with-Lee-Neck-sizing-Collet-die&s=b4fe53e1db792c9093875820c6960ed9 Also, make sure to take it a few steps farther, hence clean up between the slots of any edge burs, and take the time to square the ID finger channel and polish that channel as well. Lastly, do not forget to lightly grease the bearing contact points of the die. Lastly to point out, a collet or bushing type neck sizer will only work as well as the neck walls are uniform in thickness. If your neck wall thickness are all over the map, then will need to either neck turn them to unify them, or work the thinnest neck walls to set neck tension, knowing that the thick neck wall cases will have more neck tension isntead. Short of that, then you are back to square one/defeating the purpose, with adding in a expander button in the mix to unify the ID of the necks on the way of the sizer instead. |
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