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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2005 4:50:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:23:24 PM EDT by SST7Alumni]
Given the recent events in NO and the ever increasing likelihood of similiar and worse future events, I have decided that I should consolidate and streamline from fun and exciting hobby to a more practical set of tools. What I am looking for: Your Advice and Recommendations as far as what should be kept, added, traded (sold), etc. I am looking for practicality, reliability, and commonality in an extended "SHTF" situation.

Current Lineup:
AR's
multiple composite AR lowers (Cav.'s)
2 M4's (BM,RR)
AR varmint (RR)
AR pistol (BM)
mod. carbine (BM)

maybe 750 rnds of ammo and 10 mags

2 schools of thought - keep em or go the AK route. Providing that I keep them, I was thinking of maybe converting some of the uppers to POF piston uppers, buying at least 30 mags and at least 3k-5k rnds of ammo. I have no armorer's tools, spare parts and am not really mechanically inclined . I do like the AR platform - I am just trying to KISS.

FAL's
DSA tac.carbine w/scope mount/folding stock
DSA carbine w/15 mags (camo)

Sadly enough I haven't even fired my fal's (#1 is new #2 is used) I was thinking of possibly trading for multiple high quality AK's (maybe Vepr's, or other) - I do like the .308 round, however and would sorely miss them.

AK's
AK74 underfolder w/ 15 mags and 1k rnds of ammo

Not sure what to do here.

Misc.
Ruger stainless .300 w/some ammo
Marlin .444 w/some ammo
Mossberg 500 w/100 shells
Berretta CX4 Storm 9mm w/6 mags

Pretty sure that I would keep these 4 and just buy more ammo.

Pistols:
XD 4" 9mm
XD subcompact 9mm
Sig 226R 9mm
Kimber Warrior
Kimber Tac. Pro 2

Not enough ammo - and I would probably sell the Warrior (5" is a bit much for me in a pistol)

Well that is it - feel free to voice your opinion. Gear and related equipment suggestions are also welcome

Thanx in advance

sst7

ETA
I am planning on buying (2) 10.22's with upgraded stocks/barrels, multiple mags and @10k rnds of ammo. Also on the list: good bolt action .308 + ammo, (2) .22 pistols, a Marlin 30-30 + ammo, and a Marlin .44 mag, and a .44 revolver + ammo.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:05:02 PM EDT by SST7Alumni]
[crickets chirping] anyone out there? [crickets]
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:18:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:24:04 PM EDT by legonas]
based on what you have, i would keep the AR's and FAL's. (5.56 and 7.62 NATO) and keep the 9mm pistols that you like. dump anything with off calibers.

i do things very similar with my collection. all the firearms i own or EVER will own fire .22lr, .40S&W, 7.62x39, or .308. that is the ammo that i store. my rifles are all AK varients except my 10/22. common parts throughout. my Glocks (22 and 27) can both use the same 15 rnd g22 mags if need be.

as for ammo, you need to decide which rifle you plan to carry in SHTF. i would recommend the FAL just because i hate AR's and the 5.56. if u go the FAL route i would get at least 5-10k .308, 6-8 mags in pouches on web gear of some sort, and about 200 rounds on stripper clips in bandoliers to grab and go just in case.

for your "secondary" calibers i would go with 2k stored, 5 mags min per rifle, with cheap surplus webgear to outfit whoever may need it.

btw, check out the survival forums
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:21:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 6:32:43 PM EDT by SST7Alumni]

Originally Posted By legonas:
based on what you have, i would keep the AR's and FAL's. (5.56 and 7.62 NATO) and keep the 9mm pistols that you like.

i do things very similar with my collection. all the firearms i own or EVER will own fire .22lr, .40S&W, 7.62x39, or .308. that is the ammo that i store. my rifles are all AK varients except my 10/22. common parts throughout. my Glocks (22 and 27) can both use the same 15 rnd g22 mags if need be.



Thanks for your input.

Additional info noted and appreciated.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:24:32 PM EDT
i added more :-)
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 6:51:17 PM EDT
I'm trimming as well. Based on what you have now and from the standpoint of not buying more. I would sell all AR's with the exception of the 2 m4's. keep the tactical DsA with scope, the 226 and compact XD. sell all else and buy ammo, equipment.

Me personally, I would keep the two AR's, sell all else and get a nice .308 bolt gun(Remington 700, Winchester 70 Stealth II or FN SPR) and get a Glock 17 and either a Glock 19 or 26 and a .22 pistol and rifle. your choice, maybe a .22 revolver instead with at least a 6" barrel.
If you are partial to sig's, then a 226 and 228. Either Glock or sig full size and compact will use the larger sized mags-lessen inventory.
If you wanted a good revolver, get a Smith and Wesson 686 with a 4" barrel shoot .38's or .357's

Hope that helps!

Mark
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:14:39 PM EDT
Alumni,

I hear ya - I am in the same boat. Years ago, I wanted one of everything, in every caliber. Then, I decided that was not practical, and I was just keeping a safe full of toys I never shoot. None are collector grade, so what is the point?!?! I've been taking steps to slowly change my collection but the NO situation is, I hope, finally going to be the impetus for me to change up my collection.

You may want to check out the revised version of Boston's Gun Bible, by Boston T. Party, if you haven't already. It's a pretty good read, and has some decent, practical advice.

FWIW, here's what I've settled on are:
Pistols = keep Glocks only, and only in 9mm and .45; sell 1911s

Carbine = keep ARs (eventually all will be configured in SBR form, with maybe just one varmint), sell or convert HBARs, 9mm AR, SP1.

Note - I am not totally sold on the AR but this will do for now. I may look at your suggestion of converting to piston driven system.

Battle Rifle = Keep M1As, sell FALS. Eventually, M1As will be configured as a standard, a Scout, and a scoped precision. I will back up my semi .308s with a precision bolt gun.

Shotguns = can't decide just yet. I like the Benelli M1 and the the Remy 870. However, I might sell both and settle in on the Benelli M3 in order to have one platform for both semi and pump.

I will keep a few misc items, like a .22 rifle, an AK variant, etc. but my main collection will be the above. As time and money allows, I will add other pieces that serve as a toy and SHTF tool (like a 50 BMG).

In terms of advice, I humbly offer a few thoughts... Like Legonas said, get rid of off caliber stuff. I would also standardize on one pistol platform, which ever fits you best. Get AT LEAST 7 - 10 mags per weapon. If you have 5 ARs, get 50 mags. Like ammo, the more the better. When you get your base weapons down, duplicate and triplicate them. This is to have extra parts, and to arm friends and family.

Good luck with your selections.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:55:55 PM EDT
Keep an M4, two if your married. Hell, keep two anyway. Also keep an FAL, and which ever pistol you shoot the best. This should cover everything you need.

M4--short to medium range
FAL--medium to long range
Pistol--backup

The FAL should cover all your long range needs. A bolt action probably won't be benefitial at hitting a man sized target until 800 yards or so. If your target is so far away that the FAL is not accurate enough, is it really self defense?

Skip the shotgun. There's nothing a shotgun can do that an M4 can't--and you have 30 shots with the M4.

Do you plan on equiping anyone else besides yourself?
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:50:39 PM EDT
I'd keep the FAL and AR type of some kind.

Loose the AK.


Keep the 9mm pistols.

5.56mm, .308, 9mm are common. 5.45mm is not.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:15:48 PM EDT
How many people are you going to have to outfit?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:32:00 AM EDT
Just stick to your same calibers.

I think in terms of 9mm, 45, 5.56, 12 gauge and 308.

I would do the 40, 357 sig etc.... but I think of all of the logistics of it.

Cheap webgear is a must.

Also think about a pack of some sort.

Max
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:43:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:46:10 AM EDT by pyro6988]
Here is what I think you should keep.

2 M4's (BM,RR)
mod. carbine (BM)
DSA tac.carbine
DSA carbine
Mossberg 500
XD subcompact 9mm
Sig 226R 9mm
Kimber Warrior
Kimber Tac. Pro 2


You should trade you AK74 underfolder for one with a wooden stock.

All in all I'd say you have a pretty good start. Sell everying else and focus on ammo and mags for the above list.

You should also get a accurate bolt gun in .308 like the Remington 700 or equilvalent. I think you only need one 10/22.

Forget about the rest.

My $.02

ETA: You might want to ask this question in the survial forum here: link
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:11:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 2:47:43 PM EDT by SST7Alumni]
Thanks for all replies and advice.

I have young kids (2-8) and am thinking of arms for myself , wife, brother, and 1-2 others.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:09:40 AM EDT

Here's my take, the 2YO isn't going to be using anything, so no worries there. As far as your other son, I'd give him the 10/22. For the 5 adults, 3 (M4's and mod carb.) of the AR's ( commonality factors, easier for your wife to use than a 300 win mag ) ,1 of the FAL's, and the shotgun. Keep the 9mm pistols. This nway you have what you need for personal defense, plus food gathering abilities. With what you get rid of; get ammo, teach your "crew" how to use the weapons, hunting skills, load carrying. With this setup, everyone should still be able to carry gear and supplies.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:26:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:29:59 PM EDT
Sell everything. Have Ted Yost build you a pair of Colt's. Get an AI bolt gun, an AR10 from MSTN and a Noveske CQB (if you can have an SBR).
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 1:33:08 PM EDT
I don't know what state you live in, but if NFA items are allowed, I'd be dumping some of the extra firearms for a nice M16 rifle.

Wait, that's exactly what I did two years ago.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 3:31:44 PM EDT
Since you'll be outfitting 5 people, I'd keep the two M4s, mod. carbine, both FALs and all of the pistols. If you shoot the XDs better than your 1911s, then sell your 1911s for more XDs. Sell the rest for ammo and web gear. My reasons for my choices are stated in my post above.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:38:39 PM EDT
Just like in England, shotguns will be the last thing banned, something to think about.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:08:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By postpostban:
Just like in England, shotguns will be the last thing banned, something to think about.

Choosing a rifle based an what could be banned is a horrible idea. If you do that, the antis have already won. Unless your suggesting that he should buy evil semi autos know--then you have a point. Pick the best tools for the job. I've already said what I think they are.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 7:15:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SST7Alumni:
AR's
multiple composite AR lowers (Cav.'s)
2 M4's (BM,RR)
AR varmint (RR)
AR pistol (BM)
mod. carbine (BM)

maybe 750 rnds of ammo and 10 30 mags

FAL's
DSA tac. carbine w/scope mount/folding stock
DSA carbine w/15 mags (camo)

AK's
AK74 underfolder w/ 15 mags and 1k rnds of ammo

Misc.
Ruger stainless .300 w/some ammo
Marlin .444 w/some ammo
Mossberg 500 w/100 shells
Berretta CX4 Storm 9mm w/6 mags

Pistols:
XD 4" 9mm
XD subcompact 9mm
Sig 226R 9mm
Kimber Warrior
Kimber Tac. Pro 2

Needed:
SA M1A .308
Arsenal, Inc. SLR-105R - forget the underfolder.
Ammunition
Carbine Course
Practice
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:23:52 AM EDT
It sounds like you're trying to determine your core arsenal. Imagine you didn't own any firearms. What would you get, and in what order?

I started over about a year ago and my first purchase was a Remington Police 12 gauge shotgun. Next came a Springfield 1911A1. Then I went with the smaller, concealable Taurus Millenium Pro in .45acp for easy carry. After that came a Ruger MKII .22 and next in line is an AR15 and a Ruger 10/22. After that will be a hunting style bolt action rifle, probably in .30-06.

During the New Orleans upset I was thinking a Winchester 94 or Marlin 336 in .30-30 would be a light, handy, non-military looking, self-protection rifle, and I might still get one, though that's one more cartridge to deal with.

After these I'm thinking about a semiauto .308 rifle. After all of those I'd go back and get a dedicated, heavy barrel, long range .308 target rifle. I think it'd be fun to have a Big .50 too, but that's a ways down the list.

Your priorities might be different.

It's important to note that there were probably a lot of firearms and ammo lost in the flood. A closet full of ammo isn't going to do you any good if you have to leave in a hurry with your ready backpack and cash, your camping gear, one or two guns, and some water and food.

Don't forget slings on rifles and shotguns, and holsters for handguns, and some way to easily access ammo for the carried firearm. And for stocked ammo in the house or apartment, if it's all in metal military ammo boxes, then it's ready to carry out to the truck or car.

In a Bug Out, you can't take everything you'd like to have, so you need to predetermine what it is you consider essential and what you can leave behind.

GL

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:23:18 AM EDT
I love my Benelli M3S90, but wish I had goten an M1 instead. Light mounting options are almost non-existant for the M3, and how often do you need a pump instead of a semi? Also, the forearm on the M3 is out at the end of the barrel instead of close to the reciever like the M1. That might not sound like a big deal, but think about having to hold it out there for a little while. One of the big things that I have learned about my gear from taking some classes is weight sucks. Take some classes with different gear, see what works for you and doesn't.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:39:14 AM EDT
Keep the Bushmaster M4 and the Rock River varient assuming it is a long barrel, otherwise keep the RR M4 too.

Keep the FAL tactical carbine and see if you can swap the other and some of the money from the other guns for a full size FAL.

Keep the Mossberg 500

Keep both XD's.

Keep both Kimbers.

Sell the rest. 5.45 Russian is too hard to find after the SHTF. Same with the .444 Marlin. What caliber is the Ruger specifically? If it is 300 Win Mag, then, are you in an area where there is large dangerous game, or do you have the ability/need to make super long shots? Can it even be done with that Ruger? The theme here is to have at least two guns that can share mags, ammo, and possibly parts in a pinch. Keep the Storm only if you plan on getting a 92FS
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:52:49 AM EDT
I'm on a similar quest, but my goal is to both consolidate calibers AND maintain two platforms (one rifle one pistol). I'm buying .22LR conversions for an AR and 1911, and getting rid of any gun that doesn't have the same manual of arms as one of the two. I hope to eventually be down to three "real" calibers (.22 doesn't count); .45, .223, 12ga. I'm also trying to get two of everything, so eventually I'll hopefully have 2 1911s, 2 ARs. I'll only keep the shotgun because I can't think of a good reason not to.

In your particular case I'd keep the two M4s and the two Kimbers. I'd then get a .22 conversion for the M4 instead of the 10/22s. Maybe keep the Mossberg as a shotgun is a good utility gun. I'd then buy a Noveske Deployment Case which will carry basically everything but the Mossberg if you need to leave. The case is expensive but selling those two XDs would more than pay for it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:57:41 AM EDT
While I don't have a collection yet (only one rifle, one shotgun, one bolt gun and one pistol) my planned purchases are going to be allong the following lines. For SHTF, plinking and general use will be multiple ARs with standard Red Dot reflex (EOTech or Aimpoint on carbines) or a magnified optic (ACOG, other brands on long barrels) and all will have GI style 6 pos stock and GI barrel profiles. For collection purposes I plan on having a copy of US service rifles (1903, Garand, M14, SP1, A2) and possible add other US weapons. These will eventually be displayed in a secure case of some kind. I might start a collection of other countries rifles, maybe sov bloc guns (Mosin, AK, 74, etc etc)

If your collecting, collect one category at a time and display them in some fashion. If you don't want to them to shoot thats fine to.

For the guns you train on and shoot with keep them the same.

One Assault Rifle platform
One Battle Rifle platform
One family of pistols (or have one type for your fullsize pistols and one type for compacts)

I've never been a shotgun fan, short range, low capacity limited weapon and to much recoil for emergency (no training) shooters to use well.

If you want add a pistol caliber carbine that shares mags with your pistols.

If you hunt get ONE hunting gun (or two identical set ups if you have a buddy) and use if for all your needs. This maybe a shotgun in your state, or rifle.

Personally I'd ditch 22s. I never shot one that was loaned to me as I was groing up, I always shot 223

So:
Keep all your ARs but configure them to ONE standard. Same lights, VFGs or whatever if you have them. Personally I'd just have a flat top with BUIS and EOtech/Aimpoint/ACOG and a FSP small light mounted. No VFG, extra batteries, lasers. Keep them light and simple. But if you like the go fast gear standardize. You sound like you have enough lowers for at 6-8 ARs already. Put one in each car as a trunk gun, maybe stash one or two at a relatives that you visit a lot and that would still leave you with 4 for use at home. Rotate them as you shoot so you keep the life up.

Get your FALs into one configuration.

Ditch the AK

Ditch the civi odd calibers. I'd ditch the shotgun to. You could keep the Storm and maybe add another with funds but I'd only do this if you standardized on Berettas as your pistols. If not sell it to.

For pistols just pick one make you like. You could pick one make for fullsize and one for compact use, but you can carry fullsize pistols pretty easily with practice.

If you hunt buy one hunting gun and configure it how you want.

If you want to collect, pick a category (US Service rifles, or US WWII weapons) and get one of each. THEN go to another category.

Lots of AMMO and lots of mags.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:20:34 AM EDT
You can always ditch the FAL's and get AR's in 308 (DPMS/Armalite)

I would also like a Remmy 870 and more than 100 rounds maybe 500 or even 1000 of 00 or 0000 Buck
Chris
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 4:34:06 PM EDT
You really have two defensive scenarios here. First, you are defending your home. As a contingency you need do defend your whole family while travelling if you get forced out of your home.

Defending the home is much easier, of course. You can stockpile as much ammo as you can afford (and food, water, medicines/first aid, clothes, etc). In this case you can afford to use a heavy, high powered and scoped rifle. It's hard to beat an M1A with a good scope for this duty. Remember that you are thinking HOME DEFENSE, not offense. If someone has designs on taking what you've got and you prove to them that you are not going to be a victim they will simply move on to the "low-hanging fruit". Why would someone insist on getting into a gunfight with you when they can find plenty of gun-hating liberals in your neighborhood to steal stuff from???

The second scenario is much more difficult...defending your whole family on the road with everything you need being carried on your backs. I suggest the best AR15 that you can afford and a couple of bandaleers of ammo with 20 rd clips (20 rounders are easier to pack). Remember that you will also be carrying water, first aid, tent, sleeping bags, food, medications, clothes. This survival situation would really suck and there's a lot more that goes into it than what firearm you have...you're talking survival skills,dealing with the elements, and some luck.

A Remington 870 12 guage would make an excellent back up to the M1A for home defense as it gives you close-quarters hit probability. This comes in handy when someone tries to get in at 3AM while you are sleeping. A .357 revolver (4") would be a back-up on the road that is packable.

Remember that if your survival really does come down to a firearm that there are lots of other logistics that have to be worked out as well. Do you have backup heat? Do you have adequate water and food stockpiled? First Aid? Fire extinguishers? If you are forced outdoors do you have good hiking footwear and outdoor clothing for everyone who will be with you?
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 10:57:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theBUBBAMANcan:
You really have two defensive scenarios here. First, you are defending your home. As a contingency you need do defend your whole family while travelling if you get forced out of your home.

Defending the home is much easier, of course. You can stockpile as much ammo as you can afford (and food, water, medicines/first aid, clothes, etc). In this case you can afford to use a heavy, high powered and scoped rifle. It's hard to beat an M1A with a good scope for this duty. Remember that you are thinking HOME DEFENSE, not offense. If someone has designs on taking what you've got and you prove to them that you are not going to be a victim they will simply move on to the "low-hanging fruit". Why would someone insist on getting into a gunfight with you when they can find plenty of gun-hating liberals in your neighborhood to steal stuff from???

The second scenario is much more difficult...defending your whole family on the road with everything you need being carried on your backs. I suggest the best AR15 that you can afford and a couple of bandaleers of ammo with 20 rd clips (20 rounders are easier to pack). Remember that you will also be carrying water, first aid, tent, sleeping bags, food, medications, clothes. This survival situation would really suck and there's a lot more that goes into it than what firearm you have...you're talking survival skills,dealing with the elements, and some luck.

A Remington 870 12 guage would make an excellent back up to the M1A for home defense as it gives you close-quarters hit probability. This comes in handy when someone tries to get in at 3AM while you are sleeping. A .357 revolver (4") would be a back-up on the road that is packable.

Remember that if your survival really does come down to a firearm that there are lots of other logistics that have to be worked out as well. Do you have backup heat? Do you have adequate water and food stockpiled? First Aid? Fire extinguishers? If you are forced outdoors do you have good hiking footwear and outdoor clothing for everyone who will be with you?

That's sig line worthy right there.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 11:36:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2005 12:13:46 AM EDT by jwise]
I'm violating one of my rules and not reading the entire thread before posting. I'm sure you've already gotten some great advice, but here's what I did in the same scenario.

Assumptions: I want to replinish my supplies easily, from what is commonly commercially available and what I'll be able to "scavenge" off the field. So I wasn't as concerned with the actual firearm, as much as what MAGAZINE feeds the firearm, and the CALIBER. ARs are common for US forces, and AKs are common everywhere else. I made the choice to go with 7.62mm AKs instead of 5.45 due in part to my "commercially available" rule.

Rifles:

ARs in 5.56mm
AKs in 7.62X39
M1As in 7.62X51

Pistols:

Anything fed from a fullsize 1911 magazine
Glocks that feed from G21 mags (.45acp)
Glocks that feed from G17 mags (9mm)
Revolvers in .38/.357 and .44mag

This gives me three rifle magazines to keep on hand, and three pistol magazines. Anything that feeds from a different magazine is not counted in my SHTF inventory, but remains in my CCW or "collectors" categories. These will be left behind, or just tucked away somewhere if I have time before I bug-out. I don't keep stocks of ammo or mags for these oddballs (ie, Kel-Tec P32 for CCW.)

Shotguns:

12ga (side-by-side, pump, single-shot, etc...)

I keep 200 rds PER RIFLE in magazines, loaded in some form of pouch or LBV. I like having multiples to spread around, so I have several ARs and AKs. I don't mind having a lot, as long as my supply chain is simple!

ETA: Ok, I've read the thread now. Excellent distinction between bugging out, and HOME defense. It changes things. EOTWAWKI is also a different ball of wax than just SHTF. You'd want 10k rds of ammo for EACH if you're truly preparing for EOTWAWKI. For SHTF, anything not already loaded in mags is useless (nearly.)

I have begun streamining my gear, but I'm not done. I bit the bullet (pun intended) and sold off some of my favorites: HK USP45F Stainless, HK SL8 converted to near G36, etc... This was to get rid of oddball magazines. I'd just rather have another AR than a rifle that feeds from G36 mags. It was hard to do, but it would have just been left behind anyway.

I've got a .44mag levergun and a .44mag Ruger Vaquero. I like having these in addition to my tactical rigs. It gives some versatility, and it's a nice combo.

All my SHTF firearms have slings or holsters for them. Very important.

For a recommendation:

Stick to 1911 style pistols for .45acp, and ONE style for 9mm. Meaning, you'd have to stock two different kinds of magazines, that's it. I don't care if you want to go with the XDs or Sigs.

Keep all your ARs and all your FALs. That's just two kinds of magazines, and gives you 5.56 and .308.

Sell your oddball calibers like 300 win mag and 444. Stick to 308 in bolt guns. If you must have a levergun, find a better caliber that is more commonly available.

Beretta Storm? Dump it.

.22lr firearms are EXTREMELY important. They're GREAT for food gathering and training. You can stock Ks of rounds in a small space, comparatively. I have a conversion kit for my ARs, and a separate .22lr pistol and rifle.

Shotguns are important for food gathering as well. Stick to 12ga.

Think about what YOU would WEAR if you had to bug-out, and what armament you'd sling on. That's your FIRST line of arms. Then think what you'd hand to a friend/wife. That's your SECOND line. Then think what you'd use when things calmed down for survival, but not necessarily defending yourself with. That's your THIRD line. Have your first line always at the ready, and add to it as time allows when you bug-out.

There's a LOT more to it than JUST your firearm. Use your head and think about the WHOLE scenario. Water, Food, Shelter (more than just a roof), Weapons. Your weapons won't save you, they only let you KEEP what you've already got!

Ok, I'm done now...
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:20:55 AM EDT



start by consolidating you ammo and mags (but concentrate on the ammo); i would omit the # of guns that you can not carry or give to someone off the hand....

i would sell/trade:
AR pistol
maybe some of those lowers, keep the rest--keep the ARs
AK-74
Ruger stainless .300 w/some ammo
Marlin .444 w/some ammo
Berretta CX4 Storm 9mm w/6 mags (you dont even have a beretta to use the same mags...)

i would keep your ARs and FALs also; i would also keep your XDs and the 1911s and sell the SIG( the XDs can share mags and ammo just like the 1911s)

get a .308 bolt action rifle (Remington 700P is the best for the bucks imo)

get the ruger 10/22s; i would not get the a Marlin 30-30 + ammo, and a Marlin .44 mag, and a .44 revolver + ammo.--unless you really want em just to have

personally, i would just spend my cash on more 5.56, .308, 9mm and .45acp ammo and mags
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 12:26:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legonas:
based on what you have, i would keep the AR's and FAL's. (5.56 and 7.62 NATO) and keep the 9mm pistols that you like. dump anything with off calibers.



Pretty much what I did, except:

Kept 3 AR's (Colt 20", Bushy M4 w/ Eotech, and Oly/Glock 9mm)
2 .308's (well, only one "in hand" a Garand, but have a JLD 91 on order)
Got rid of all my pistols that weren't 9mm or .22 (except for duty weapon and back up in PPK)

Working on adding to ammo collection, got about 2K .223, 2K 9mm, and 500 .308

My wife and I have also started stocking up on purified water and canned goods in case of emergency (we live on the New Madrid Fault)

All of this while trying not to sound/act like a dooms-day'er
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:40:40 PM EDT
Sell them all and get a .22 and a .38

-or-

Never, ever sell a gun because you'll regret it later.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 5:23:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raf:
One bit of advice I would offer is to get rid of anything that does not use a former or current US military round.

Exceptions could be made, based on utility/necessity, for weapons that used ubiquitous Civvy cartridges. like the .30-30.

Frankly, a very accurate, scoped M1A or FAL can do just about anything one might need, short of shotgun/pistol duties.

A fer AR carbines for the small-statured/women might prove useful

Forget the AK, as it adds another round, and really adds nothing to what you already have.



That was the best advice I read.
Link Posted: 9/18/2005 8:55:15 PM EDT
I knew a fellow once. He had a lot of "cowboy" guns: handgun caliber lever actions and single action Colts. I said to him: "What about the end of the world? You'd need a battle rifle, wouldn't you?" He said: "Hell, I'll just shoot you and take yours."

It's true, isn't it? In a great civil battle there will be firearms available among the dead. Something like this is the reasoning behind having military cartridge firearms, isn't it? Ammo availablity? Same goes for firearms. Upgrades will be available.

GL
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:21:44 AM EDT
I would like to start out by emphasizing that you should attend formal training with what ever firearm you decide to make your primary weapon and practice with that rifle a lot. A weapons light for target identification at night and in low light is also a must have. You will have to select web gear that interfaces with whatever backpack you decide to use. Web gear is a very broad topic and depends on what you wish to accomplish with it and how much you are willing to spend. I recommend 13 magazines per rifle and 1000rds regardless of which rifle you decide to standardize on.

Before we address your weapons I would like you to consider a few others items. Do you have and food stores? Water stores? How about other items that would be necessary for survival if you lost power or had to abandon your house? If you have not consider these items just as important as firearms. If you consider bugging out a possibility remember that carrying your rifle and web gear will have to be accomplished while carrying food, water and shelter. Weight should be a very significant consideration when picking your primary weapon.

How many people are you trying to arm? Are you considering bugging out, in or both?

If you are trying to arm other family members besides yourself I would recommend standardizing on the AR15 weapons platform. AR15s are ergonomic, accurate, have easy to use sights, light weight, low recoil & muzzle flip, and use a very common and light weight cartridge. AR15s are very versatile making it easy to add optics, lights, rails and fore grips.

FALs are good rifles as well but most women generally do not have the strength or desire to shoot and handle a 9Lbs + rifle over a sustained period of time. If you feel that having a .308 rifle around is worthwhile then keep one FAL and enough AR15s to arm everyone else. I will note that I do not feel that .308 offers enough advantage to justify not having the same standard of ammunition, magazines and parts that the other AR15 wielding members of your group will have.

AKs are great rifles, I love shooting them. For some AKs in 7.62 x 39mm have to much "recoil" and the sights are very poor compared to those that are found on an AR or FAL. Most people find the appropriate 6 o'clock sight picture for an AK non instinctual as compared to the point of aim point of impact sights on an AR or FAL. Adding a light to this system is not easy and will require you to purchase an expensive rail for this purpose (this is based on your statement of mechanical incompetence). I generally only recommend this rifle as a primary weapon to people who can not afford an AR or FAL.

The .223 caliber weapons are really the best choice due to the superior terminal ballistics of the .223cal round as compared to most affordable, commercially available 7.62 x 39 or .308 rounds. There is no reason to keep any of the other misc. rifle calibers that you mention outside of any enjoyment you may personally gain from owning them. I will note that I am trying to help you standardize on weapons that you currently have available. This is why I do not mention AR10s, M1As, or AKs chambered in calibers other than 7.62 x 39mm.

Out of what you have in the way of rifles I would keep the following:

AR's
2 M4's (BM,RR) - assuming that they have non HBAR barrels.
AR varmint (RR) - Assuming that it is reliable with the ammunition that you would fire in the M4 carbines.
Mod carbine (BM)

FAL's - I would keep which ever FAL is most accurate, reliable, and lightweight.
DSA tac.carbine w/scope mount/folding stock
DSA carbine w/15 mags (camo

For pistols I recommend weapons that are easily concealable. Generally I do not bother with any pistol chambered in a caliber smaller than 9mm. Out of what you currently have I would keep the following assuming that you are a capable shooter with them.

XD 4" 9mm
XD subcompact 9mm
Kimber Warrior
Kimber Tac. Pro 2

Personally I would add a Glock 19 to your list as I find it a suitable primary arm when I need to conceal or open carry it.

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